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Les Paul Tones


titchyblackcat
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I have a Pod HD directly into the pc and have some OK tones with my Tele' and Strat'

My Les Paul Traditional  has never sounded very good so i wondered if any one had any different tips ( like Bass at 0 and resonance at 0 etc) for a Les Paul.

Whether it be clean or crunchy I'd appreciate any ideas like which amps to try and nuances that would apply to a Les Paul.

 

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Mic has smaller (worse) SNR even if sensitivity is turned all the way down (at least on my HD500).

Recommend not to select Mic as input source unless you actually have a Mic connected and use it.

Obviously also not an issue if you have Mic on a totally separate path and the Mixer for that path is muted.

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If you haven't changed this already:

 

Input 1: Guitar

Input 2: Aux (or Variax or mic, just not same or guitar)

 

I'm a bit puzzled by this too. My understanding of eg. this post is that it is better to set input B to [same] to avoid potential -6dB gain loss if using a mono-summing fx at the beginning of the signal chain.

 

Can you explain why you do this?

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This may fall into the urban myth category of tweaks.  I agree that everyone has to judge this for themselves, and in some cases it may turn out to be a problem.  But I can't say having it set to guitar and same has been an issue for me.  I will say changing it to some other settings clearly has an effect on the general output and tone to some degree, but I can't say I ever experienced anything at all like what the OP deanesque described in my setup.

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Don't know about a Les Paul in particular, but for the input settings, what you set those at could depend on what kind of tone you're after. If it's clean, it might be beneficial to set input 2 to something unused, so as not to drive the amp, and possibly any effects before the amp, too hard, creating unwanted breakup. For higher gain, setting both inputs to the same thing could be just what you're looking for for that little bit of extra edginess.

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Mic has smaller (worse) SNR even if sensitivity is turned all the way down (at least on my HD500).

Recommend not to select Mic as input source unless you actually have a Mic connected and use it.

Obviously also not an issue if you have Mic on a totally separate path and the Mixer for that path is muted.

It should be noted... 

 

Do not use mic as an input if you intend on using the vocoder. 

Vocoder activates the mic jack regardless of input. If mic is already an input and you use the vocoder, you get a mix of regular mic and the vocoder --- which sort of defeats the point of a vocoder, lol. 

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I'm a bit puzzled by this too. My understanding of eg. this post is that it is better to set input B to [same] to avoid potential -6dB gain loss if using a mono-summing fx at the beginning of the signal chain.

 

Can you explain why you do this?

Is it a loss of 6 if you do not use same, or is it a gain of 6 if you do? Hi chicken, meet egg. 

 

Many people can only get clean sounds when it is not set to same. The +6 often distorts the sound. A basic 'too much input' type of distortion -- clipping. 

I don't have the problem. Well, I do have the problem, but I adjust my playing to help alleviate it. Clean sounds with guitar/same.

There is also the amount of noise created by using 2 inputs. 

 

 

But, I do agree, going with a single guitar input seems to make everything easier. 

If I knew now what I knew then, and I could do it all over again from scratch, I would definitely not use guitar/same. 

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This may fall into the urban myth category of tweaks.  I agree that everyone has to judge this for themselves, and in some cases it may turn out to be a problem.  But I can't say having it set to guitar and same has been an issue for me.  I will say changing it to some other settings clearly has an effect on the general output and tone to some degree, but I can't say I ever experienced anything at all like what the OP deanesque described in my setup.

 

I have to agree, but I'm going to have a real dig into this over the weekend, on headphones, no messing about :) .

 

I *did* have to lower input impedance to get a truly clean tone on Jazz Rivet patches, so I will start with those. I'll duplicate a patch, set Zin back to 1MΩ again and try input selection switching. Then A/B the patches. That should shine a light where it needs to be shone.

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I have to agree, but I'm going to have a real dig into this over the weekend, on headphones, no messing about :) .

 

I *did* have to lower input impedance to get a truly clean tone on Jazz Rivet patches, so I will start with those. I'll duplicate a patch, set Zin back to 1MΩ again and try input selection switching. Then A/B the patches. That should shine a light where it needs to be shone.

 

I've done a bit of this myself over the last two days.  Even though I wasn't experiencing any dreadful tone issues, but Hughanico and Pianoguy's comments regarding making things a bit easier and more consistent with the actual behavior of the real equipment intrigued me.  I've long thought that the type of adjustments I've been making to achieve the tones I want seemed to be a bit out of line with what I've always done in the past, so I wanted to see if it made a difference.

 

I've only tested out 4 of my patches, but I have to admit the change in inputs seemed to make my settings more in line with what I've always been used to in the past.  Particularly the response of the tone controls and the settings on the tube compressor, tube screamer, and studio EQ.  I also noticed a little more of a sonic change in the presence control as well as resonance.

 

So on first blush through this I've got to say, this doesn't appear to be myth at all.  It may not be as bad as the original poster made out, but that may be due to the rig he was using.  I know the Yamaha DXR12 I use is pretty resistant to overdriven signals and that may account for why I didn't experience any significant problems.  But for myself it did seem to address one of the smaller but somewhat aggravating aspect of not getting the behaviors I expected from my settings.

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i had the exact same issue: after 2 years with a standard strat (mexico model) i opted for a LP traditional. instant agony.

i use customtone tones mostly. tweaking to my taste. and was generally happy with the strat - pod combination.

the LP sounded dull and ducked- took me a week (yeah i know)  to find out i had a compressor plugin on the pc to protect my home stereo speakers. disabled/adjusted that and humbucker heaven. turning the pups down some (3mm) did also help.

the humbuckers appear about twice as loud, still with no or minimal drive/gain tweaking, i can get a decent tone on pretty much all patches with both guitars. no hiss of fizz or clipping.

while i strongly feel the right setting is guitar-same i leave it to the author of a tone and set the global to preset (per patch), best of both worlds.

there is nothing wrong with a lp traditional / pod hd500 setup.

the strat really came to new life with .9 ernie ball cobalt strings lately, got to put them on the lp next for sure.

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I've done a bit of this myself over the last two days.  Even though I wasn't experiencing any dreadful tone issues, but Hughanico and Pianoguy's comments regarding making things a bit easier and more consistent with the actual behavior of the real equipment intrigued me.  I've long thought that the type of adjustments I've been making to achieve the tones I want seemed to be a bit out of line with what I've always done in the past, so I wanted to see if it made a difference.

 

I've only tested out 4 of my patches, but I have to admit the change in inputs seemed to make my settings more in line with what I've always been used to in the past.  Particularly the response of the tone controls and the settings on the tube compressor, tube screamer, and studio EQ.  I also noticed a little more of a sonic change in the presence control as well as resonance.

 

So on first blush through this I've got to say, this doesn't appear to be myth at all.  It may not be as bad as the original poster made out, but that may be due to the rig he was using.  I know the Yamaha DXR12 I use is pretty resistant to overdriven signals and that may account for why I didn't experience any significant problems.  But for myself it did seem to address one of the smaller but somewhat aggravating aspect of not getting the behaviors I expected from my settings.

 

After some testing, I agree with DunedinDragon (and Hurghenico and Pianoguy and others - thanks). The gain change is real. [Guitar + same] is louder and there is a slight loss of definition which MeAmBobbo ascribes to comb filtering.

 

I can see that if I had all my [guitar + same] patches set up for single coil pickups and then plugged in an LP there might be clipping. I can also see this becoming more of an issue with hot humbuckers.

 

It's well worth knowing about and from now on, it goes into the toolbox for patch building. Thanks to all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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what complicates things a bit and could be confusing, is the objective and absolutely provable fact that a model in path A separate (therefore reached only by input1) has the same response in the amount of distortion and tone that would have if placed before the split point with both inputs identical..

 

my hypothesis is that any signal passing through the inevitable split point is duplicated in order to turn into full signals the 2 halves of the signal coming from the last block before the split point, before they go one in path A and the other one in path B..

 

this mechanism useful in the case above to retain full signals in path A and B when there are blocks before the split point, unfortunately works the same way also if before the split point there is just nothing, so if for example you decide to use only path A (reached therefore only by input1) the input signal is doubled from the Split Point..

 

just to talk and expose my thoughts .. then everyone is free to use the available information (true or not) as they see fit

 

I think you are correct. It's difficult to formulate an alternative explanation. And please keep sharing (not deleting) your thoughts :) If I had to work all this out on my own, I'd never get any playing done. 

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