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Flextone III re-speakered to optimize for modeling

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Hello,

 

ejones1989 recently started a post about the Hd500 And Flextone Iii and this got me thinking and fiddling around with my Amplifi Table Top. I got it working and it sounds pretty good, but...

 

Has anyone re-speakered any of their cabinets to a FRFR speaker that might be better optimized for modeling tones? If so, what speaker can you recommend? It migth be worth investing a few bugs into the old Flextone III and drop a new speaker in there and give it a new life.

 

Thoughts?

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The Flextone already had a custom voiced Celestion designed by Line 6 to work with their modeling.  Not worth changing anything as that is a great speaker choice and anyways its an open back cab.  Any type of FRFR coax speaker design would need a good crossover and specific closed cab.  Use the Flexy with the FX return.  Try the full amp models with no cab modeling, I think you'll like it.

 

 Has anyone re-speakered any of their cabinets to a FRFR speaker that might be better optimized for modeling tones? If so, what speaker can you recommend? It migth be worth investing a few bugs into the old Flextone III and drop a new speaker in there and give it a new life.

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Ahh!  That's a good point about removing the Cab modeling.  But this brings up a question. I assume you mean to remove the Cab model from the Amplifi device.

 

Here's the reason I was asking...

 

I'd like to see if I can put together a poor-mans version of the Firehawk 1500 (without the stereo feature). I'd like to be able to play my acoustic guitar (uning "no amp") and it sound as good as it would through a PA. The Amplifi TT would give me delay, chorus, veverb... I'd also like to be able to play music tracks through the Flextone III speaker (through the Amplifi BT connection).

 

So this is why I was looking for a re-speaker FRFR option.

 

BUT, if that also involves getting a crossover and messing around with a lot of electronics, then forgetaboutit!

 

Thoughts?

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The Flexy is a open back guitar cab and it's never going to be FRFR.  However, you may be able to get it to do a reasonable acoustic guitar tone with the right EQ and patch in the TT.  As far as backing tracks through it?  Won't be stellar is all I'll say.  Might be good enough for practice though.

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Hi all,

 

Here's an update.

 

I was able to get the Table Top correctly hooked up to the Flextone III and I cannot honestly say is was significantly better than the Flextone by itself. I think there were some tones that were slightly clearer, but it was not a WOW moment of clarity.

 

The acoustic guitar using "no amp" didn't work at all and when I selected a piezzo amp, it did make sound, but it was not good. I don't think it was a good relationship.

 

Also, the BT streaming music files sounded ok at best.

 

So, this is still cool to know I can do it and I have another amp I can use with modeling and streaming.

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I'm not sure there is any difference in the modelling between the Amplifi and the Flextone III which is basically a Vetta with less features.  What you do get is the better UI and the BT integration.  I didn't think backing tracks would sound that hot through a guitar amp.

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Gosh, it is great to read about folks using these Flextones...

 

This is just my opinion, but the stock Celestion Seventy80 (That's what it is) was a bad speaker choice for the Flextone III XL that is nearly completely open back. Those speakers are not rigid enough for that and are designed for closed back cabs...Back in the day, a bunch of us when through a lot of speakers, mods and contacting Celestion directly to improve on the stock Flexy.

 

I changed the speakers to 300 watt Madson Mintrels (Really clean with minimal breakup) that have a sort of EV12L vibe...I tried a lot of speakers in that amp and honestly, the only way it will really render a 412 is if you but a closed back cab under it and physically used 412s...When the Flexy was my main rig, I always ran a 212 closed Madison cab under it...Ran right next to Boogies and Mashalls many times and was asked what kind of tubes it used...lol! WARNING....Never run this amp with a load lower than 8 ohms...I modified mine with an NL4 speakon and ran my 212 cab stereo series so it was 16 ohms a side...But the more efficient speakers and added cab more than made up for the power reduction.

 

Basically, the lowend goes to shiot with the Seventy80s in louder situations...No Cab is actually the way most of the Flexy guys ran the stock amps back in the day. Push the amp selector and put it on Line 6 Clean as I recall...or thru the Edit app...

 

One of the tricks to getting the power amp to really sound good is to use fairly low input level...Stick Master Volume at about 2-3 o'clock and using the channel volume or the POD output to set the volume level. The cleans are what benefit where you can get some Fender Twin spank dynamics where it will jump out and grab you a little...

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Gosh, it is great to read about folks using these Flextones...

 

Thanks spaceatl!  I found an old thread of yours on the subject, really great info...  Doesn't look like the Madison Minstrels are made anymore.

 

Do you know anything about the Eminence speakers used in the original Flextones?  Got me thinking about swapping in my Governers this weekend and putting the Flextone speakers in my closed back cab.

 

http://line6.com/supportarchive/thread/1983/

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2 forums ago, I think I wrote a book on the Flexy....loL!

 

Yes, the rumor always was that Eminence speaker was the Modeling Speaker they made up until about 10 years ago...Basically, I think Line 6 might have designed it and it was available for a little while after...I had a pair of them that were in my AX2....Those kill the Seventy80s IMO...

 

That sounds like a good idea to me with Governors....Are those the Red Coats? I think the rating is about the same...not sure...I have used the Seventy80s in 412s and 212s and they sound quite good in closed cabs...But Celestion really isn't my cup of tea...kind of guesswork speaker design IMHO...But they have made some interesting colors...I remember some folks liking those governors...If you want to use the cab models, then neutral is generally the direction you want to try and go...The general approach there is the higher the rating, the more transparent it will be because the breakup threshold will move up...This also holds true for open back cabinets. The reason is that there is nothing more than 1 atmosphere of pressure on the back of the cone which lowers the breakup threshold of the speaker...But distributing the power over more cones also lessens breakup and increases perceived volume...This can all get a little complicated to write down...

 

Generally, with cab models, the flatter the response of the speaker, the better the models wil translate...An EV12L is a wonderful modeling speaker, but they are very expensive and very heavy...A JBL works pretty fantastic too...However, this is really getting anal about this stuff...

 

If I were to go Eminence, I would go here I think: http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Kappalite_3012HO

 

100 db SPL and 400 watt rating...pretty darn clean...maybe too clean for some folks...

 

I have several 200 watt Eminence Yamaha OEM PA drivers that I have used in the Flexy and they work pretty darn good...But 400 watt driver seem to always work better...I never have tried the Delta Lites, but those are around 250 watts I think and the flux density of NEo is really strong which generally means not much breakup...

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Yes, the rumor always was that Eminence speaker was the Modeling Speaker they made up until about 10 years ago...Basically, I think Line 6 might have designed it and it was available for a little while after...I had a pair of them that were in my AX2....Those kill the Seventy80s IMO...

 

Well I have an original Flextone XL which should have the Eminence drivers, not the Celestions.  Based on what you said, maybe I should just leave well enough alone.  I like the Helix with no cab modeling through the Flexy but all the amps tend to sound similar.  If i do use the cab modeling I have to bump the cab output level up about 6db to match the volume without the cab.  The different cabs do sound good that way.  Considering i got it for $85 on CL I consider it an amazing steal...

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I swapped out the stock speakers in my Flextone XL with a pair of Eminence Red Coat Governors this weekend.  I had the Governors in another cab that i wasn't using so I swapped speakers in the two cabs.  Downside is the Felxy just got heavier as the Governors are beefy.  Upside is it took the Flexy to tonal perfection.  I expected a bump but this was more.  These speakers are tight in the bottom end and smooth all the way up.  The highs are clear and articulate and it just sounds on a different level.  I'm running my Helix in through the FX Return, not using the Flextone modeling.  I had a patch I was working on with the Tyco muff into a Matchless and it just wasn't right before.  Tried it with the new spekers and it came alive.   Haven't tried the closed back 2x12 with the Flextone speakers but I expect they will work good in there.

 

I'm not recommending anyone run out and buy these speakers, just relating my experience if anyone is interested.  I'm actually comfortable letting the DT25 go now and reallocating the funds to new guitars.

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Gee...I sure am glad I don't have to dork around changing speakers and such.  It gives me that much more time to actually play the guitar.... B)

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Nah...just someone that figures no matter how much I spend on equipment it won't make me a better guitar player.  Only practice can do that...

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