Jump to content
roscoe5

IR's From Amplitube 4

Recommended Posts

The IR's I have posted on this forum and on Dropbox are made from the Amplitube 4, Fruity Loops, and Voxengo Deconvolver, along with my own tweaks to taste.

I asked around this forum and the IK Multimedia forum, Sonar forum, and more and no one had experience or direction. After a lot of research and trial and (lots of) error on my own, I finally got some working pieces in place.

The simplest way to do it that I found was with Voxengo Deconvolver and Fruity Loops Fruity Convolver (FLC herein). I'm sure there are other more pro ways to do it.

http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/amplitube4/
(I highly recommend the Amplitube 4 + Mesa pack for $159)

http://www.voxengo.com/product/deconvolver/

http://www.image-line.com/downloads/flstudiodownload.html

You can completely create and save IR *.wav files that will import into Helix with the demo versions of FL and Voxengo. But you wont be able to save and reopen the FL session, and you cant do more than 3 conversions at a time with the Voxengo demo.

Follow the Fruity Convolver "plug-in sandwich" method for creating an plug-in IR in Making impulse responses from plugin effects , which is based on a reverb plug-in. Except use a 20 sec (20Hz-20kHz) sine sweep signal exported from Voxengo in FLC slot 1 instead of the FLC "clap" impulse (which is good for reverbs). I found that although Helix converts IR's to 16 bit, the 24 bit Voxengo IR sine sweep made a better sounding Cab IR. I couldn't tell a difference between 24 bit and 32 bit. Also, I couldn't tell a difference between Mono and Stereo sine sweep through a cab.

https://www.image-line.com/support/FLHelp/html/plugins/Fruity%20Convolver.htm

Here's a video too.



I attached a few screenshots with some notes. I might make a video if you guys want it.

Again, the IR's I made were raw, but I thought they sounded good enough for me. A little EQ matching with a plug-in and a track could refine them a bit more. Someone with more time and software tools might do a bit better than I did.

Here is a Dropbox link to my working Amplitube IR's
https://www.dropbox....Rd2evJJ0Ca?dl=0

FYI, I have a feature request into IK Multimedia to allow IR export directly from Amplitube for live use. We'll see if that goes anywhere. I'm sure they could sell more Amplitube with something like that. They don't have anything like Line 6 IdeaScale that I could find.

This should work with other software modellers too, but I only have Amplitube.

I can see this also making a good scratch pad for testing virtual cab and mic configurations before setting up physical cabs and mics for real IR's.

Posted Line 6 Helix IR Utility to Idea Scale.
http://line6.ideasca...ty/813669-23508

Update 4/6/2016: Clarifying summary steps from another post response.
  • Use Voxengo Deconvolver (VDC) to generate the 20 sec sine sweep impulse *.wav file for an input signal to the DAW plug in (Amplitube)
  • In Fruity Loops, make the Fruity Loops Convolver (FLC)-Amplitube-Fruity Loops Convolver plug in sandwich
  • Turn of the 1st and 3rd slot FLC's and tweak an Amplitube Cab and Mic to taste to a Helix amp
  • Turn on the 1st FLC slot and import and play the Voxengo sine sweep through Amplitube and adjust the Amplitube inputs and outputs below clip (red).
  • Turn on the 3rd FLC slot (all 3 are on now) and record the output (response) of the 1st FLC through Amplitube 2nd slot.
  • In the 3rd FLC slot, add a little silence to the end of the recorded response as for some reason it is slightly shorter than 20 sec.
  • In the 3rd FLC slot, export the response as a *.wav
  • In VDC, load the original VDC-generated 20 sec sine sweep *.wav file and the FLC exported response *.wav file,
  • In VDC, set the magic settings in the pic above (experiment to taste), and click Process
  • In Helix App, drag your new IR it into one of the Impulses slot, put it on a preset, and enjoy.

To maybe alleviate any concerns about pirating Amplitube, all new IRs I post will be exported from Helix impulse library after they have been processed by Helix import. This adds another layer of processing that makes them a little further from the Amplitube originals, but the same to Helix users.

Recall that Helix converts IRs to 16 bit on import. I also think there may be some other processing by Helix as the 9kb 16bit Helix-exported IRs sound different in a DAW than the pre-import 24 bit 50-150kb IRs I get with the process I use.

 

Update 4/7/2016

 

I have added equivalent Power Amp + Cab IR's on Dropbox.  These have a lot thicker sound and I believe have captured more of the tube power amp + cab interaction and vibe.  These can be use with Helix preamp blocks as well as amp blocks.

 

Using them with preamp blocks will allow you to split the signal after the preamp for virtual effects loop or to send preamp signal to your real tube power amp or amp effects return, the run the Amp +Cab IR to the Helix XLR for front of house sound.

 

  • Mesa Recto Pwr Amp +Cab
  • Marshall 70 80 Pwr Amp + Cab
  • Fender Twin 212 Pwr Amp + Cab
  • Fender Deluxe 410 Pwr Amp + Cab
  • Mesa Mark III V30 412 Pwr Amp + Cab New!

These IR's should give you completely different sounds than available from within Helix or from any cab IR company (Ownhamer or Redwirez).

 

Update 4/8/2016

 

I have archived all previous trial IR's and files and did some housekeeping.  The old stuff should still be there in the !Archive folder if there is something you think you need.  
 
All files are now at the IR folder level with a naming convention to organize them.  There is generally one cab IR and one (power) Amp + Cab for each amp/cab type.
 
I have refreshed previous cab IR's and new amp + cab IR's with updated naming so that the name in Helix is the same as the file name. It was a file title issue.
 
 
New tested workflows below!!!
 
These IR's work great with outboard physical gear and Helix as the IR processor, signal router, and controller, including preamps, amps effects sends, and amps though reactive loads.  Feel free to experiment as always, but the the physical components do seem to work intuitively as you would traditionally route them in the real world.  preamps sound good through Amp + Cab IR's and the amp effects sends, slaves, & reactive load outs sound good through the Cab IR's
 
Things I have tested that work well:
 
Helix preamps & amps (of course!)
Mesa Triaxis preamp
Marshall JMP-1 preamp
Mesa V Twin pedal preamp
Mesa Stiletto Duece II (effects send & reactive load)
Mesa Mark V (effects send, slave out, & reactive load)
 

post-1189006-0-42273300-1459910901_thumb.png

post-1189006-0-49454900-1459910908_thumb.png

post-1189006-0-63894700-1459911757_thumb.png

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Redwirez has a PlugIn called MixIR2. With that you can mix whatever .wav IR you have.

It's not free though. If you buy the BigBox Bundle it is included.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, I'll check Redwirez out. I bet I have a lot of what I need in my DAWS and plug ins too. Guess that will be phase 2 of my IR evolution ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

I'm sure IK appreciates you pirating their cab models.

 

 

Ha, the same way Mesa, Marshall, and Fender appreciate the modeling companies and physical IR guys ;)

Personally, I have no plans to sell IR's. I own the the software and all of the models for personal use.

But even if one did want to sell them, I think some arguments could be made that the concept of modelling software sounds, especially IR's, is fundamentally not much different than modelling hardware.

The IR'S do not sound exactly the same as the AT models and are static. They do not have the adjustability and functionality of the original software plug in.  There is no code replication or release.

A *.wav file is created from running a signal through plug ins, functionally the same way a guitar or bass is for a track. Songs are sold with plug in sounds on them. Even sample and MIDI based instruments software packages and add ons are made with plug ins.

I would say that creating IR'S from plug ins, especially Amplitube, would likely sell more copies of the software, just like models of physical equipment can inspire users to go out and buy the real thing. I mean Amplitube cab room is an amazing concept with almost infinite cab, mic, speaker, and room combinations. An IR from that is a single static tone that is not an exact match, with one persons personal taste and interpretation on what it should sound like.

And honestly my intent was to show that IR creation can be achievable for users with no fancy studios, mics, or expensive gear, not to create a software plug in IR market.

I think the $159 for Amplitube 4 + Mesa bundle is an AMAZING deal that gives you access to the Cab Room, certified Mesa gear, and some really great next Gen brit amps and cab models for your DAW. Tack on the ability to make IR'S yourself for your Helix, and it seems like a no brainer to me. I mean you spend that for the Helix backpack or Mission pedal.  At minimum, it could be justified as just another Helix accessory.

 

I'd really like to see Amplitube add the ability to export cab IR's straight from the software.  It has a built in mini DAW.  I wouldn't think it would be hard to implement.  I would think that functionality would also attract buyers.

 

With all of that soapboxing out of the way, I guess I should go ahead and create non-descript names for the IRs so as not to infringe on trademark names, like Ampliboob Rectumfire cab.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Ampliboob Rectumfire cab.

 

 

 

Love it!

 

Thanks for the info!  I was just playing your files.  The Mesa stuff is the MOST rockin' thing I've played on the Helix yet.  Very impressive!  The best thing yet!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent points roscoe. if i could creat and export irs from AT4, i would buy it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Summary of steps condensed down to a 10-step program added to the top post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fender Twin American Alnico SM57 IR posted to dropbox (link at top).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To maybe alleviate any concerns about pirating Amplitube, all new IRs I post will be exported from Helix impulse library after they have been processed by Helix import. This adds another layer of processing that makes them a little further from the Amplitube originals, but the same to Helix users.

 

Recall that Helix converts IRs to 16 bit on import. I also think there may be some other processing by Helix as the 9kb 16bit Helix-exported IRs sound different in a DAW than the pre-import 24 bit 50-150kb IRs I get with the process I use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ownhammer IR's vs. selfmade Amplitube IR's

Is it worth to do the complete sampling process to get IR's out of Amplitube, if you can get "professional" IR's for a few bucks ?
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ownhammer IR's vs. selfmade Amplitube IR's

Is it worth to do the complete sampling process to get IR's out of Amplitube, if you can get "professional" IR's for a few bucks ?

 

 

Ha, probably not, at least not to most.

 

I originally took it on because there was a certain tonality and functionality of the cabs in Amplitube Cab Room that I was used to and felt like I was missing in Helix and the pro IR's.

 

Another factor was that another member here was really on the fence about Helix because he already loved the Amplitbube sounds he loved.

 

Finally, there was the fun in the shear challenge of it.  The fact that I couldn't find anyone on forums, various customer supports, etc. that had tried it made me want to do it even more.  The voices in my head were screaming that it was possible.

 

The more I play the AT IR's I made, the Helix Cabs, and pro IR's, the more I think that the Helix Cabs and pro IR's a probably true to the original cabinets.  Guitar speakers generally have a limited frequency range, just look at the spec sheets for speakers on the Celestion site.

 

I think what I am getting with the AT IR's is the basic flavor of the modeled cab with a much wider frequency response.  Which of course was just an unintentional by-product of the completely digital domain process...a happy accident if you will.  But in hindsight, I bet you could achieve a similar result by slapping on a 10 band eq block in after a cab or IR block in Helix.  I just like the ju-ju and mystery of a single magic cab/IR block :)

 

I think the ability to create completely digital IR's with just DAW tools and plug-ins opens up a realm of new tonal possibilities, not limited to physical speaker cabinets.  

 

Speaking at least for myself, I think many people have really been really fixated and focused on the effort (and expense) of recreating and exactly matching the physical world in the digital domain that the potential of creating unique and equally cool and usable digital-only-based tones has been somewhat neglected.  I was that person until Line 6 gave me Helix and IR blocks to play with.  Line 6 is obviously open to creating their own unique tones as they do have their own amps, Electrik, Doom, and Epic...which are great!

 

So the main point I would shout out to everyone is that, especially with Helix, you do not have to entirely accept the tones and functionality others have given you.  You can make your own very unique sound print on the world.  Mankind's basic functions in the world are to reproduce, consume, and create.  We all create music here (I would hope), but some of us REALLY get into bending the technology to our will  :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably because the Helix IR Manager will utilize only the left channel of the imported stereo file:

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/16315-ir-sample-rate-question/?p=121260

Dur (me). That makes sense. AT has a different mic on each speaker, left and right. So all of my IRs are probably only getting the SM57 mic on the left side and maybe one if the room mics. Of course it would sound a little different in Helix.

 

More adjusting and experimenting to...

 

Combine the L & R into one mono wav

 

Make separate IR'S for each of the L & R sides

 

Going back to my original goal, I wanted to configure an AT cab with a Helix amp, then just IR that cab sound for helix live. I wasn't really trying to give myself hundreds of IR options and combinations.

 

Thanks for the reply. I dunno why I didn't pick up on that...too down in the weeds to see I guess ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have added equivalent Power Amp + Cab IR's to each of the IR types/folders on Dropbox.  These have a lot thicker sound and I believe have captured more of the tube power amp + cab interaction and vibe.  These can be use with Helix preamp blocks as well as amp blocks.

 

Using them with preamp blocks will allow you to split the signal after the preamp for virtual effects loop or to send preamp signal to your real tube power amp or amp effects return, the run the Amp +Cab IR to the Helix XLR for front of house sound.

 

  • Mesa Recto Pwr Amp +Cab
  • Marshall 70 80 Pwr Amp + Cab
  • Fender Twin 212 Pwr Amp + Cab
  • Fender Deluxe 410 Pwr Amp + Cab

These IR's should give you completely different sounds than available from within Helix or from any cab IR company (Ownhamer or Redwirez).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have archived all previous trial IR's and files and did some housekeeping.  The old stuff should still be there in the !Archive folder if there is something you think you need.  

 

All files are now at the IR folder level with a naming convention to organize them.  There is generally one cab IR and one (power) Amp + Cab for each amp/cab type.

 

I have refreshed previous cab IR's and new amp + cab IR's with updated naming so that the name in Helix is the same as the file name. It was a file title issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
New tested workflows below!!!


 

These IR's work great with outboard physical gear, like preamps, amps effects sends, and amps though reactive loads.  Feel free to experiment as always, but the the physical components do seem to work well as you would traditionally route them in the real world.  preamps sound good through Amp + Cab IR's and the amp effects sends, slaves, & reactive load outs sound good through the Cab IR's

 

Things I have tested that work well:

 

Helix preamps & amps (of course!)

Mesa Triaxis preamp

Marshall JMP-1 preamp

Mesa V Twin pedal preamp

Mesa Stiletto Duece II (effects send & reactive load)

Mesa Mark V (effects send, slave out, & reactive load)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New Mesa Mark III Pwr Amp + Cab IR's posted to Dropbox.  I mainly made these for my Mesa Triaxis v2 Fat Mod since it has many Mark-based sounds, and I already had the Mesa Recto IR's for the built in Triaxis Recto TX4 board preamp.  Also, Line 6 has no Mesa Mark models yet, so combining Helix preamps (and even amps) will get you closer to a Mesa Mark sound.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

just checked out your IRs. Thanks again for this work!!!!!!!

 

What i noticed: Compared to the free IRs of ownhammer, there is more treble in almost every of your models. In my setup it sounds more authentic with activated highcut. at about 4.5-7 KHz. When i look at the impulse response itself it seems, that the start could be a bit to late, so the first sample of the wav file seems not tobe really the first of the impulse. But perhaps my software is misleading me here. Or could it be that you've cut a bit close?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

just checked out your IRs. Thanks again for this work!!!!!!!

 

What i noticed: Compared to the free IRs of ownhammer, there is more treble in almost every of your models. In my setup it sounds more authentic with activated highcut. at about 4.5-7 KHz. When i look at the impulse response itself it seems, that the start could be a bit to late, so the first sample of the wav file seems not tobe really the first of the impulse. But perhaps my software is misleading me here. Or could it be that you've cut a bit close?

Thanks for the feedback!!!

 

Yes, agree that the pro IR's are closer to reality, but I've got plenty of reality options already.  The sine sweep I am using is 20Hz-20kHz through a digital plug in.  I notice a much wider frequency response than the physical cabinet IR would likely have (could be a digital-only factor).  I'm sure they do a bit of post processing too that I havent tried yet.  I find (as I think you did) that the Helix IR block Low Cut and High Cut and Levels really tame my IR's.  I usually set low cut around 120Hz and 10kHz and set Level to personal taste.  Note that the Celestion V30 spec frequency range is 70Hz-5kHz (which is close to your high setting), so setting Low/High Cut in Helix to those sounds good as well.  

 

Thanks for checking the impulse start. I don't notice any latency when playing the IR by itself or through an amp/preamp in Helix,  Note that the IR's I posted are exported from Helix after Helix has processed them on Import.  So maybe there is something there.  I'll check into it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When i look at the impulse response itself it seems, that the start could be a bit to late, so the first sample of the wav file seems not tobe really the first of the impulse. But perhaps my software is misleading me here. Or could it be that you've cut a bit close?

 

Hmm...I looked at the posted IR's in the Free NCH WavePad Sound Editor and it looks like the Impulse begins right at the start.

 

Now I do have some old IR's floating around other posts (which was not the best idea).  The most current versions are on Dropbox.

 

https://www.dropbox....Rd2evJJ0Ca?dl=0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi roscoe,

 

dont worry to much about what i say because i don't know nothing about IRs and maybe what i think to "discover" is wrong.

I tried to create a IR file of my DT25 with a high grade measurement microphone and failed completly. Not to much treble, but to less bass and base. Seems that it is'nt so easy ;)

 

I use a software for loudspeaker mesaurements (Arta) wich is able to import .wav files and show them as frequency response and as impulse. In case you need it - Arta is freeware with full functionaility except saving and loading files. But a license is'nt expensive and it's a real powerful tool.

 

Here's a screenshot of one of your IRs:

post-11061-0-50525200-1460139382_thumb.jpg

where it seems that the impulse record does'nt start at zero. Perhaps this might influence the trebles?

 

As frequency response, this IR looks like this:

post-11061-0-84684600-1460139670_thumb.jpg

this seems about plausible to me, so i don't know where the harshness comes.

Well - my measurement of the DT25 (open back) looses about 40 dB from 5 to 20 KHz what seems quite normal to me for a guitar speaker.

Let's better forget about manufacturers specs about frequency range. Usually they use a +/- 3 dB range - what happens after - who knows ;) Some tell the specs at -10 dB - does'nt help us much further.

I used a measurement microphone wich is ultralinear up to 40 Kz, so my measurement is not colored by a musicians mic. I measured on axis - off axis the drop probably would even be stronger. Your Marshall cab shows a drop of "only" about 17 dB from 5-10 KHz. What microphone in wich angle and distance did you use?

I still have to change my main computer from XP to 7, in the actual situation it's hard for me to measure (Win XP) and work with the Helix wich needs Win 7 or above. When i've done this, i probably can get a bit deeper in IRs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Here's a screenshot of one of your IRs:

attachicon.gifroscoe5 marsh GB.JPG

where it seems that the impulse record does'nt start at zero. Perhaps this might influence the trebles?

 

As frequency response, this IR looks like this:

attachicon.gifroscoe5 marsh GB-FR.JPG

this seems about plausible to me, so i don't know where the harshness comes.

Your Marshall cab shows a drop of "only" about 17 dB from 5-10 KHz. What microphone in wich angle and distance did you use?

I still have to change my main computer from XP to 7, in the actual situation it's hard for me to measure (Win XP) and work with the Helix wich needs Win 7 or above. When i've done this, i 

 

Ah, I see what you are saying now about the start of the impulse waveform itself.  I was looking for silence or something at the beginning.

 

Of course I am doing this entirely in software and plug ins per the top post.  But the virtual mic is an SM57 model on axis, just off the center of the (virtual) cone.  I could pull it more off center to darken it up, but the Helix IR High cut works fine for me.

 

FYI, the sine wave from Voxengo Deconvolver is 24 bit, the Fruity Loops Convolver plugins are set to 32 bit (because there is no 24 bit option, only 16 & 32).  Then Helix reduces it to 16 bit on import, which is what I export and post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

As frequency response, this IR looks like this:

attachicon.gifroscoe5 marsh GB-FR.JPG

this seems about plausible to me, so i don't know where the harshness comes.

 

 

I spent a little more time with some plug in tools refining the Marshall 7080 Cab and the Mesa Recto V30 Cab. They are starting to sound slightly closer to the Ownhammer and Helix cabs, which I guess is good for some.  Sounds to me that I'm starting to lose the openess that I was digging and leaning toward the sound of the traditional IR and speaker models.

 

I still haven't figured out why the impulses aren't starting at 0.  But I will probably look more this weekend. 

 

Posted these v2 IR's

 

Mesa Recto V30 Cab v2_hx.wav

Marsh 7080 Cab v2_hx.wav

 

Thanks again for the testing, screenshots, and feedback!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...