Pittster1970 Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 hi all. just got a Helix & want to make sure I'm hooking it up correctly using 4 cable method have a Blackstar HT Club 40 combo amp with effects loop. guitar to Helix inHelix send to Blackstar inputBlackstar fx send to Helix returnHelix 1/4 out to Blackstar fx return is that correct? what do I benefit by setting it up this way? sorry for the obvious 'newbie' questions but this is the first multi fx processor or indeed the first amp with an effects loop that I've ever used. thanks. smile emoticon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 hi all. just got a Helix & want to make sure I'm hooking it up correctly using 4 cable method have a Blackstar HT Club 40 combo amp with effects loop. guitar to Helix in Helix send to Blackstar input Blackstar fx send to Helix return Helix 1/4 out to Blackstar fx return is that correct? what do I benefit by setting it up this way? sorry for the obvious 'newbie' questions but this is the first multi fx processor or indeed the first amp with an effects loop that I've ever used. thanks. smile emoticon Here is a graphic for 4CM setup: https://youtu.be/Wvz3L8bJb1w?t=117 This allows you to route effects like compression and distortion into your guitar amplifier's preamp (same as if you used pedals between the guitar and the amp in a conventional setup) but send effects such as most commonly reverb and delay, but also some modulation effects or even EQ in between the preamp and power amp sections of your guitar amplifier where they often sound best. You will have to set up the routing and effects send/return blocks in your Helix presets properly to accomplish this. There is a useful template for setting up 4CM in the Helix Templates setlist. Here is a link not for the Helix but it has some good tips. http://amplifya.com/setting-up-your-tube-amp-with-a-pod-hd500/ Here is a good Helix YouTube video for 4CM setup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaeger28 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Depending on wether your fx loop is line or inst level you might be better using two fx loops on helix. For example send 1 set to inst level to go to amp input, and return 2 set to line to connect fx send of the Blackstar. Then main out set line level (default) to Blackstar fx return. Otherwise, if BS loop is inst you can use send1/return1 all set inst level but make sure the main out is set to inst level, too. If there is a choice in the amp if you can run either, line or inst, usually line is the better signal quality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pittster1970 Posted April 17, 2016 Author Share Posted April 17, 2016 the amp has a switch on back for the fx loop, you can choose +4dBV or -10dBV, which would be best if using 4cm ? many thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 the amp has a switch on back for the fx loop, you can choose +4dBV or -10dBV, which would be best if using 4cm ? many thanks, Here is a quote from the article on using 4CM with the 500HDx link I provided: The first method uses ‘Instrument Level’ (-10dBV) throughout and is probably best if you want to use the HD500 for effects only. The second method is an alternative setup for if you want to use the HD500 for both modeling and effects, in situations where your ‘real’ amplifier pre-amp is much louder than the modelled ones’. It uses ‘Line Level’ (+4dBU) on the HD output but turns down the real pre-amps. This effectively gives you more headroom the modelled pre-amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munsterboy78 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Divided by 13 915 has no effects loop:( How would I hook up the helix to sound good when my only option is to go from the front of the amp? Is there any external devices that I should seek? My sound is just not good enough when I am trying to use it? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!! Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Divided by 13 915 has no effects loop:( How would I hook up the helix to sound good when my only option is to go from the front of the amp? Is there any external devices that I should seek? My sound is just not good enough when I am trying to use it? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!! Jeff Some would say the best results are to be had by just using the Helix as an effects only device or at the very least without the cab modeling when going into the front of an amp. Strictly speaking that is probably true but I think it is perfectly legit to use amp and/or cab modeling with a traditional guitar amp as well. Let your ears be the judge, if it sounds good, do it. You may find you have to limit the EQ of the low and high end to your liking as well as apply some custom EQ in other areas depending on how your amp responds to the Helix. You should be able to get a great sound out of it either way. Getting the signal level correct from the Helix to your guitar amp is also critical. Ultimately I have to admit I prefer running modelers through an FRFR but there are different virtues to all kinds of monitoring solutions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munsterboy78 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 I agree the Signal level seems to be the main issue. Some effects that I download from line 6 community sound awesome others sound like my guitar is a tin can being played into an over cranked sounding amp speaker with a lot of hiss. I know that Pete Thorn uses some kind of device to safely get line level to the amp but I'm not sure what it is. Is there any devices that a guy might try to get the more desired outcome? Thanks Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuhajla Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Divided by 13 915 has no effects loop:( How would I hook up the helix to sound good when my only option is to go from the front of the amp? Is there any external devices that I should seek? My sound is just not good enough when I am trying to use it? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!! Jeff Yes, do it. Start off by just using distortions/ODs, and effects in the front end of your amp. Then start using just some of the preamp models in front of your amp with nothing else to see what the core tone sounds like. If you like it, use it! A ton of fantastic classic guitar tones were created before effects loops were available. So, you have a lot you can use with your Helix in front of your great amp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riki1 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 I currently use mine straight in the front and use preamp models. Do you guys place the preamp after distortions but before delays etc, or last in the chain... so it's going preamp model into the Amp which is another preamp? Another thing I'm going to look at (we'll listen to) is using preamps and diming my fender twin so allhe eq is at 10 so not taking anything away and seeing what that does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbr13697 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 A technique that I use a lot with the 4 cable method is to have both a modelled amp and an FX Send/Return in the preset. I assign one footswitch to both turn on the amp and turn off the loop at the same time (or the opposite). With the modelled amp off and the loop on, I can use the Helix as an effects unit and select which effects are placed before and after the loop. This gives me my own guitar amp's natural pre-amp and EQ on both the amps channels, and all the effects on the Helix used as a conventional pedal board. If I press the assigned switch, the FX Loop is switched off, and the modelled amp is switched on. The signal now bypasses my guitar amp's pre-amp and EQ entirely, and goes directly to the power amp stage. It obviously isn't FRFR, but it is as close as I can get with my rig. The effects now interact with the modelled amp, either before or after. I tend to place the FX Loop and modelled amp adjacent to one another in the Helix signal chain, so that the pre and post effects act in the same way whether using the modelled amp or my guitar amp. You have to be aware that when the signal is taken directly to the guitar amp's power stage via the Return cable, you lose the volume control on the amp (and the pre-amp channels). All the volume control, and EQ, has to be handled on the the Helix, so you do need to be aware of levels. I am rather lucky in that the Master Volume on my Blackstar Artist actually operates on the power stage, so I do still have an overall volume control. This does not apply to most guitar amps, and I have to be a lot more careful with levels and volume matching when using my Egnater amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrellM5 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 One solution to not having an effects loop is to use an attenuator between your amp and cabinet (or speaker). I use a Fryette Power Station 2. It wasn't cheap but it works great and has other features too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbr13697 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Hi DarrellM5 I'm struggling to see the logic in your suggestion above. As far as I understand it, an attenuator just reduces the power out of the power amp into the speakers. This is normally used so that you can really crank the amp creating the warm distortion you get power tubes are really cooking, without the associated speaker volume. Much like some amps have switches to attenuate output volume to several reduced levels e.g. 40w, 10w,5w.1w to reduce volume whilst still getting the tone of volumes at 10. This is a useful feature, and a power soak can be used if the amp doesn't have attenuation switches built in. However, I really can't see how it replaces the functions of an effects loop. Can you explain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuhajla Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 I know that Pete Thorn uses some kind of device to safely get line level to the amp but I'm not sure what it is. He uses a reactive load. You go from your amp speaker out into the reactive load, then into a DI or Helix return. This allows you to put your amp into one of the loops on Helix and use it in place of an amp model in Helix, and then go to a cab model or IR. https://www.suhr.com/electronics/tone-tools/suhr-reactive-load/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efrutchey Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 A technique that I use a lot with the 4 cable method is to have both a modelled amp and an FX Send/Return in the preset. I assign one footswitch to both turn on the amp and turn off the loop at the same time (or the opposite). With the modelled amp off and the loop on, I can use the Helix as an effects unit and select which effects are placed before and after the loop. This gives me my own guitar amp's natural pre-amp and EQ on both the amps channels, and all the effects on the Helix used as a conventional pedal board. If I press the assigned switch, the FX Loop is switched off, and the modelled amp is switched on. The signal now bypasses my guitar amp's pre-amp and EQ entirely, and goes directly to the power amp stage. It obviously isn't FRFR, but it is as close as I can get with my rig. The effects now interact with the modelled amp, either before or after. I tend to place the FX Loop and modelled amp adjacent to one another in the Helix signal chain, so that the pre and post effects act in the same way whether using the modelled amp or my guitar amp. You have to be aware that when the signal is taken directly to the guitar amp's power stage via the Return cable, you lose the volume control on the amp (and the pre-amp channels). All the volume control, and EQ, has to be handled on the the Helix, so you do need to be aware of levels. I am rather lucky in that the Master Volume on my Blackstar Artist actually operates on the power stage, so I do still have an overall volume control. This does not apply to most guitar amps, and I have to be a lot more careful with levels and volume matching when using my Egnater amp. Any chance you'd share said preset so I can see this first hand? Got an HT club 40 and can't afford an FRFR but want to play around with both amp models and just fx on my blackstar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkmona04 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 hello - i just bought a new blackstar club 40 and line 6 podgo. wondering how you ended up connecting your line 6 device to your blackstar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datacommando Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, mkmona04 said: hello - i just bought a new blackstar club 40 and line 6 podgo. wondering how you ended up connecting your line 6 device to your blackstar? Hi mkmona04, You have just asked a question in a thread that is 3 years old. Luckily I spotted your post or you could have been a long while waiting for a reply from the guy who mentioned Blackstar Club 40. It seems that the discussion was about hooking up via the four cable method, often referred to as 4CM. You can find the instructions and diagram of how to connect your POD Go and Club 40 on page 7 of the POD Go owner's manual. Hope this helps/makes sense. Here's a video to help out. Edited October 31, 2020 by datacommando Addd video Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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