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mikisb

using looper - keep timing

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it seems that i've not enough talent to use the looper :(

 

At the aux input of the Helix, i use a Digitech Trio wich gives me a drums and bass base. Works fine.

Using the looper, i try to add a lick/rythm guitar. Works fine too.

 

But i'm not able to really syncronise both, so after a few takes, it does'nt match anymore. It seems that i'm not able to start and stop the looper exactly at the same count, so the timing difference between both gets bigger each time the loop repeats.

I simply cant handle the multitask challenge to play guitar and switch the looper at the same time. Even if there's only 1/19 second difference, it's still 1 second when the loop repeated 10 times.

Du you have a hint how to use the looper better? Don't have any experience with.

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Hi

I'm not an expert but I think you need to synchronize clock of each device. Usually, it is done by MIDI.

I don't know if the Helix looper is compatible with MIDI clock.

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thanks! I don't think that the Helix looper can be syncronized - in my understanding it's just a loop with what i play, with start and end definded by my foot. How he should know what i want?

I wonder how musicians use lopers on stage? Do the human beings adapt to a beat presented by a machine or loop?

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I wonder how musicians use lopers on stage? Do the human beings adapt to a beat presented by a machine or loop?

 

 

Yeah that's what basically happens in a usual setting - you're all grooving along nicely - then someone makes a loop and then suddenly everyone has to stop grooving and concentrate to the loop like mad or you all go out of time with the loop and it sounds god awful.

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thanks! I don't think that the Helix looper can be syncronized - in my understanding it's just a loop with what i play, with start and end definded by my foot. How he should know what i want?

I wonder how musicians use lopers on stage? Do the human beings adapt to a beat presented by a machine or loop?

 

If you actually want to use some sort of looping with a band, you either need to have a click track with a MIDI clock to sync everything (assuming you have a looper that can be MIDI synced and quantized), or everyone just needs to follow the looper. The click track thing won't work with the Helix, as 1) the Helix doesn't yet have MIDI sync capability, and 2) the looper isn't tied to any tempo settings on the Helix. I'd say that trying to use the looper with a full band would be pretty tricky. If you have good timing, and the band can really hear you, it might work, but I would not want to try to do it with a drummer.

 

I have seen guys use DL4 loopers with full bands, but when the whole band is playing, it seems they stop the loop and just hit the "play once" button. That way the loop is just shot out once, and it can be re-synced on each go around.

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thanks a lot for your explications. So it seems that it isn't my personal problem but something systematic. This makes me not play better, but it makes me sleep better :)

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At least they released a new Trio with a looper. That helps quite a bit!

 

 

Doesn't help the wallet, unfortunately...

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I have the good fortune to work with many bands and the one of the worship leaders at my church uses a click track for meter on all the songs he leads on.  The track is given to the drummer and the kid is amazing with the way he can keep meter.  Having said that I also have studied the use of the looper for the past four years and it is a beast in and of itself.  There is a group call the Piano Guys that I have watched for some time and one of the music videos has the cellist using the looper quite successfully.  Point is that I am still learning but it is kind of cool when you reach that "wow, so this is how it is done" moment.  Don't give up and don't lose a lot of sleep over it.  May be just a little sleep.  ;)

 

Dennis

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it seems that i've not enough talent to use the looper :(

 

At the aux input of the Helix, i use a Digitech Trio wich gives me a drums and bass base. Works fine.

Using the looper, i try to add a lick/rythm guitar. Works fine too.

 

But i'm not able to really syncronise both, so after a few takes, it does'nt match anymore. It seems that i'm not able to start and stop the looper exactly at the same count, so the timing difference between both gets bigger each time the loop repeats.

I simply cant handle the multitask challenge to play guitar and switch the looper at the same time. Even if there's only 1/19 second difference, it's still 1 second when the loop repeated 10 times.

Du you have a hint how to use the looper better? Don't have any experience with.

 

Have you tried using the "Ext. Amp" control jack on the Helix with the "Control" input jack on the Trio? Not sure how you would go about that,  I don't own a Trio or do much beyond basic looping. Probably wouldn't help you for using both the Trio and the Helix looper simultaneously anyway because I don't believe you can assign "Ext. Amp" control to a footswitch while the Helix is in looper mode. Might be an interesting way to control just the Trio looper though.

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We're talking about 

* timing (which is a lifelong training task for all musicians) and

* syncing / clocking which refers to the technical aspect of looping.

You can use perfect loopers (equipment) having no success

as long as your timing is not well trained.

You can have perfect timing but you won't come off as long as

your looper hardware / software is not good enough...

You really need both to 'sleep better' ;)

 

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Even if you're as humanly-possible to being on beat with the looper, after a while, its going to fall out of time. We used to have a song that started with a keyboard playing off a backtrack to which would build a chord one note at a time with the looper on the HD500, but live it always would fall apart (it was about a 30 bar section). Without being able to quantize the start/stop points, its pretty hard to use with something that never changes tempo and can't react to small differences. The looper is super fun for solo jamming, not good if you need it to sync with other things that are really tight.

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I'm guessing there is a way to start/stop the looper with MIDI, though? Haven't looked into it, but that could be really cool.

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sounds like yer choices for live looping are

 

- use the looper in Helix with no Trio bass/drums, and practice starting and "closing" your loop right on the beat

- create your loop in Helix, and have your Trio "listen" to what you looped and then play along

- buy the Trio+ with looper built in so the drum/bass beats are always synced to the looper (and don't use Helix looper)

- use a looper and other equipment (such as MIDI backing track device) that supports synching via MIDI clock (Boomerang III looper, for example)

- form a group with a drummer that will follow your Helix loops without whining

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