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Gigging Helix - EQ help needed please!

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I've decided to take the plunge and use my Helix at a gig this weekend. I'll be running it through a solid state power amp into guitar cabs. The issue that I have is that the sound (with no cab model or IR engaged)is a bit on the harsh side. Does anyone have any recommended EQ settings to address this please?

 

Some people suggest using a high cut at 6k or 8k with the Helix, however that seems to cut too much of the highs and harmonic richness from the tone. Managed to experiment today (at volume) and got up to around 12k for the high cut before I was still reasonably happy with the tone, although my ears may have been getting tired by this point.

 

Would one of the other EQ options be a better way to do this rather than just applying the high cut?

 

Or should the sound actually be "harsh" through real guitar cabs compared to the headphone/monitored tone with modelled cabs? I did try a couple of different amps and speakers and the results were consistent in this respect.

 

Cheers!

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I only use the Helix w/ FRFRs because of some of the acoustic tones I use, so not much experience with what you're doing, but without an amp cab sim the tone is very harsh in my setups.    

 

There aren't any rules...how does it sound using a cab model when running into your amp?  Do whatever sounds good!

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I only use the Helix w/ FRFRs because of some of the acoustic tones I use, so not much experience with what you're doing, but without an amp cab sim the tone is very harsh in my setups.    

 

There aren't any rules...how does it sound using a cab model when running into your amp?  Do whatever sounds good!

This is what I do... I have left cab modeling in place and eq'd a bit... I find this is the best for me.  I just couldnt tame the harshness without it.

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Or should the sound actually be "harsh" through real guitar cabs compared to the headphone/monitored tone with modelled cabs? I did try a couple of different amps and speakers and the results were consistent in this respect.

 

Cheers!

Well "harsh" is never desirable, unless you're actually trying to sound like crap, which I'm assuming you're not. (Although some bands do make you wonder ;) ). So no, it's not supposed to sound like that.

 

I have found (with various modelers, not just this one) that running without cab and mic sims, while the intuitive thing to do with a "real" amp and cabinet rig, doesn't necessarily yield good results...often resulting in exactly the "harshness" you describe. Never worked for me. There's nothing that says you can't run cab/mic sims into an actual cabinet, however. I did just that for years with the POD before going to an FRFR rig, and I'm not alone. You might be surprised at the sounds you can get that way.

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I've decided to take the plunge and use my Helix at a gig this weekend. I'll be running it through a solid state power amp into guitar cabs. The issue that I have is that the sound (with no cab model or IR engaged)is a bit on the harsh side. Does anyone have any recommended EQ settings to address this please?

 

Some people suggest using a high cut at 6k or 8k with the Helix, however that seems to cut too much of the highs and harmonic richness from the tone. Managed to experiment today (at volume) and got up to around 12k for the high cut before I was still reasonably happy with the tone, although my ears may have been getting tired by this point.

 

Would one of the other EQ options be a better way to do this rather than just applying the high cut?

 

Or should the sound actually be "harsh" through real guitar cabs compared to the headphone/monitored tone with modelled cabs? I did try a couple of different amps and speakers and the results were consistent in this respect.

 

Cheers!

A great way to figure out what the bad frequencies are is to use the Global EQ. Leave the low cut & high cut alone for now. Use the high EQ setting to find the offensive frequencies by turning up the High Gain level and using the High Freq to sweep the upper range. When you find the offensive frequency then use the High Q setting to see how wide you want to cut that freq and then turn the High Gain down until the offending freq disappears. You can do the same for the low end but I think just using the Low Cut will get rid of any boominess.

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I only use the Helix w/ FRFRs because of some of the acoustic tones I use, so not much experience with what you're doing, but without an amp cab sim the tone is very harsh in my setups.    

 

There aren't any rules...how does it sound using a cab model when running into your amp?  Do whatever sounds good!

I did try some IR's and the sound was too muddy/boomy through the guitar cabs.

 

Cleaner sounds don't seem too bad without a cab sim, it's the higher gain stuff that has something of a "piercing" quality about it.

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I have found (with various modelers, not just this one) that running without cab and mic sims, while the intuitive thing to do with a "real" amp and cabinet rig, doesn't necessarily yield good results...often resulting in exactly the "harshness" you describe. Never worked for me. There's nothing that says you can't run cab/mic sims into an actual cabinet, however. I did just that for years with the POD before going to an FRFR rig, and I'm not alone. You might be surprised at the sounds you can get that way.

I'm not saying a cab sim can't work through a cab and I think I did end up doing this years ago for some tones on older Line 6 gear. However this was when there wasn't the option to slip in an EQ block after the amp. Plus the cab model was probably more simple than the current generation and so maybe did less to mess up the live sound. The IRs I tried on the Helix today did not sound good through my guitar cabs. If the Helix amp model is as authentic as it should be, then it really should sound right being amplified directly into a "real" cab.

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A great way to figure out what the bad frequencies are is to use the Global EQ. Leave the low cut & high cut alone for now. Use the high EQ setting to find the offensive frequencies by turning up the High Gain level and using the High Freq to sweep the upper range. When you find the offensive frequency then use the High Q setting to see how wide you want to cut that freq and then turn the High Gain down until the offending freq disappears. You can do the same for the low end but I think just using the Low Cut will get rid of any boominess.

That sounds like a plan - I was hoping that someone might have already done the work though! :-)

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I had a similar experience. So much so that I experimented with all manner of different combinations and settings.

After all that, I still didn't find the right answer.

It might not be right for you, but try the global EQ settings I posted in the thread image (about halfway down the page)

http://line6.com/support/topic/19889-help-setting-up-4cm-metal-tone/?do=findComment&comment=150882

It helped me shape out what I was looking for... I then set about finding an IR that was similar in it's colouration.

TL:DR
Other things I learned.

Running direct into the power amp in, from the 1/4" out is right.
Check with your manufacturer to work out if it's a Line level input or Instrument level.
Turned out mine was Line!

Download the free OwnHammer IR's and load them all in sequentially.
Look at the information in the manual on mic placement per IR.

I found that I did away with using the global EQ, by just finding an IR that I liked, that seemed to reproduce a similar EQ curve to the Global one I setup...
Whilst also providing some sonic-resistance to the raw amp blocks output/feel.

As others have said, yeah... without using a cab sim, does sound shrill.

I love the feel of the ANGL amp.... it's just that the top end is super bright and at volume, makes my ears want to die.
I found that I could get a respectable low register tone, without the top end hazard of the ANGL, by using the PV Panama.


I'm not a know it all, just throwing my 2-cents as it sounds like you're going through similar experiences.
 

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Download the free OwnHammer IR's and load them all in sequentially.

Look at the information in the manual on mic placement per IR.

 

I.e

When importing using the editor.

 

If you group select all IR .wav files within a folder, the editor will bring them all in top to bottom.

 

No need to load in everything individually... (I haven't seen anyone mention that on the forums yet)

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I had a similar experience. So much so that I experimented with all manner of different combinations and settings.

 

Running direct into the power amp in, from the 1/4" out is right.

Check with your manufacturer to work out if it's a Line level input or Instrument level.

Turned out mine was Line!

 

Power amps always want a line level signal...never seen one that wanted anything else.

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