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djczone

Dropouts with XDV70

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bought this mic in April 2011. been bullet proof, just turn on and go. never any drop outs and great sound. 

 

on 12.26.15, had first issue. opened ticket with L6 support. here is the story:

 

settings: handheld mic is on channel 1 and displaying about 6 hours and 40 minutes battery life. essentially the batteries are brand new, maybe 10 - 15 minutes talking time on them tops. Receiver window showing Channel 1. This is he same channel as i’ve always used since the day i bought the mic, never changed the channel ever. Antennas up at 45 degree angle. Here is what the screen says: CH 1:THH12 —MIC When standing directly behind the receiver at my DJ station the sound check was fine. I walked about 25 feet into the room and audio was cutting in and out. Never had this issue. Receiver was elevated and in clear line of sight. All I've ever done is turn on the mic and go at every gig. Pretty embarrassing, I had to ask the people doing toasts to stop in the middle of their speech and have them walk over to me. Then had to literally stand directly next to the receiver else the audio would drop.

 

After hearing from L6 support they said to scan for open channels. So I always do that now and have been having no issues until last weekend. They said it must have been strong wifi interference.

 

Last weekend, sound check was fine, I walked all through the room, no issues. Sounded great during toasts and speeches which were about 40-50 feet away indoors. Then at the end of the night I grabbed the mic to send people home. the receiver is 3 feet from me on the DJ table. It was cutting out every other word. I had to put it down and use my hard wired backup mic. tried to replicate it after everyone went home and mic was fine. next day had an outdoor event on a field. was was great up to 200 feet away. about 1/2 way through the gig, it started cutting out again. same symptom, this time about 50 feet away. then it was totally fine for the rest of the gig. so its something i'm unable to replicate and now this mic is officially unreliable. we thought it was strong wifi interference last time this happened in december 2015. that's definitley not the case it seems. what can i do?

 

i opened a new ticket with L6 a few days ago. they said: "The only thing you can do is re-check the channels to compensate for the change in interference with the changing environment. The mic will always work if on an open channel. If the interference is changing in your situations, you will have to adapt around that."

 

I just don't see how that is acceptable. I can't be changing channels in the middle of announcements or speeches? I'll be so stressed at every gig waiting for this mic to drop out. And I just suggested L6 to a colleague of mine last October and he bout a brand new XDV75 and he's also experiencing drop outs as well. 

 

If the answer is to change channels in the middle of a gig, I will be forced to change manufacturers. Could my equipment be faulty? 

 

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It's conceivable that it could be faulty although as it's an intermittent issue, you can bet that it'll behave perfectly on the test bench.

I'd be looking closely at environmental factors here. If you have a phone in your pocket (particularly of an i variety) and you're stood right next to the receiver, that'll almost inevitably cause issues. Anything that generates RF (by design or otherwise) that's very close to the receiver can be a problem, even if it's not on the same frequency. Laptops and their PSUs can chuck out all kinds of horrible RF.

Keep your receiver's antennae as far away as possible from anything else electronic. If that's impossible, consider getting some cables to enable you to remotely mount the antennae away from any potential sources of interference. I regularly run 10 V70/V75 systems together without any issues. The one time I did have a problem was when someone plugged in their mephone to charge right behind the rack next to the antennae. I now always use remote paddles which can be mounted well away from everything. 

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I have the Exact same issue with my XD-V75 system!

I have NOT got it to work smooth at any Wedding YET!  Frustrating!

Of course there are gonna be lots of cell phones and wifi happening in a Hotel plus I have my Apple wireless running for my DMX light rig!

 

Nothing but drop outs!

If there isn't an answer soon, this unit will be on Ebay ASAP!

 

 

djczone Please let me know if you hear anything back...

 

Thanks,

Stevie Mac

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If you have an access point right next to the receiver, it's pretty much guaranteed not to work. It's not a fault; that's just not how they work. It's a bit like buying a diesel car and wanting to put petrol in it - ain't going to happen.

Very few radio mic systems are truly plug & play. They all have to be used with some understanding of the RF environment and of their limitations. Analogue radio mics aren't so different - if you want to use lots of them together, you have to coordinate their frequencies properly. I've encountered people who tried to use them by just setting them all 0.5MHz apart. Maybe logical in their mind but that's not how they work. There are people who expect to be able to use several transmitters with one receiver - again maybe logical to them but that's not how they work. The V75 is a great system and absolutely rock solid IF it's used properly. RF1 mode and appropriately located receiver / antennae and you'll be away. I regularly use mine in a venue with stupidly powerful wifi plus the usual audience full of phones with no issues at all.

If you have to use a radio mic system in very close proximity to a lot of other 2.4GHz traffic, maybe the L6 offerings aren't the right ones for you. Used in RF1 mode, they'll probably trample over your wireless DMX so you may well be better off with something on a different frequency band if you can't put some physical distance between them. Not because they're faulty; simply because there's only so much traffic you can fit in to one band before something starts to suffer.

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I too seem to have the same thing happen to me this past weekend. I have never had any problems with my V70's for years, but this weekend, we where having dropouts all over the place.

 

After reading through many posts here I do suspect either 1) network wireless router or 2) DMX transceiver causing the problem.

 

From the last post would it be safe to assume then that perhaps the Line6 product might not be a good fit in a setup with wireless DMX and wireless routers in close proximity?  Would a pair of P180 solve this problem?

 

Or would other manufacturers be a better solution? Does that mean their frequencies would differ, wouldn't they too have similar issues in such an environment?

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As with all things RF, you need to do a bit of frequency coordination. With traditional UHF radio mics, that was relatively easy as you just had to ensure that no one else was using the frequency you were on. Most systems had plenty of frequencies available to change to in the event of issues (licence permitting!). Using multiple systems was a bit trickier as you have to use compatible sets of frequencies to avoid intermod issues but it was all pretty logical. Radio mics had their own protected (well, ish) band that was exclusively theirs.

 

Now enter the wonderful world of 2.4GHz. Many different devices work in that band (radio mics, wireless DMX, WiFi etc). Some are very clever at working around other devices in use, some will stomp all over other devices. Some can be configured to different "channels", some aren't controllable. There's no guarantee at all that using more than one different type of device in the same 2.4GHz band will work. Networking is pretty resilient as it can resend lost packets so the data gets through albeit more slowly. Audio and DMX can't do that as they work in real time so will display more objectionable symptoms if they suffer interference.

 

What to do? Move the networking to 5GHz - it's a much quieter band so works better and will be less affected by interference from other systems and also affect other 2.4G systems less. Wireless DMX - fleabay is flooded with very cheap systems - I've not used any personally but I suspect they won't work nearly as well as "proper" systems, both in their ability to continue working in the presence of interference and in their ability to not cause undue issues for other equipment. Wireless DMX is not regularly used in the pro world unless absolutely necessary as wires are far more reliable and far cheaper. Is it totally impracticable to run wires?

 

Physical separation is your friend. Wireless systems aren't best used to cover large distances - they should be used where a wire really isn't practicable e.g. a moving performer. Keep transmitters and receivers as close to each other as possible and keep different systems as far away from each other as possible. Doubling the distance causes a four fold decrease in signal strength so even a little bit of a shuffle to move things around may well pay dividends.

 

Make sure you understand the difference between RF modes on the Line6 systems. RF1 is generally much more bullet proof but they don't come set up in that mode - you have to change it yourself. If you're in an environment with a lot of 2.4GHz traffic that you can't control, a radio mic also in that band isn't likely to be a good fit; a system in a different band may well be a better option. Try the separation thing first though - it's amazing the difference moving something just a few feet can make.

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Hi!

 

 I am sorry to post this message here, but I could not find another way to contact the moderator.

I am trying to obtain some information from an older post, but all the images are missing:

 

http://line6.com/supportarchivenew/thread/49644/

 

I am a web developer, and I believe that fixing this might not be too hard. It seems that the images links are pointing to a wrong folder:

 

http://line6.com/supportarchivenew/thread/49644/Latest+as+built+schematic+for+preamp%2C+30.6db+gain.png

 

Thank you for looking into this!

Ashirvad

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Hi Ashirvad,

I am also looking for the same images, did you have any luck getting the 20db preamp going?

Kindest Regards,
Adrian

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