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A new take on Effects Loops


mileskb
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I want to run this up the flagpole before I add it to IdeaScale to ensure I'm on the right track.

 

A popular IdeaScale entry is for their to be an  Effects Loop block that can be added to at least the amp models/simulations that have effects loops. However, in responding to another post I came up with these ideas that might be easier and in fact provide more options.

 

As the goal is to be able to put primarily time-based effects between the pre-amp and amp as they are in real life, and as Line6 has already made the pre-amps available...  maybe one or all of these options might be doable as well.

 

  1. Option to bypass preamp of AMP and AMP&CAB blocks.   In this way one could use the PREAMP block, followed by the effects, even putting them on a separate path so the "mix" just like they do in real life, followed by the AMP or AMP&CAB block with the pre-amp bypassed.  This is how most effects loops work.
     
  2. The BYPASS PREAMP option should be in both AMP blocks and AMP&CAB blocks for the same current reasons there are AMP and AMP&CAB blocks.
     
  3. Add models of Power Amps.  There are many current and classic power amps that people use and what a great pairing with some of the PREAMP blocks !!!!  Not everyone plays through a combo amp.  In fact, in reality, most don't.  Regardless of the stack of Marshalls or Orange or whatever you see on the stage, you'd be surprised (or not) how often the actual sound is a power amp into a mic'd cabinet or a power amp into an ISO speaker box.  Some power amps with unique voice that come to mind are:
  • Rocktron Velocity 300
  • Carvin TS1000
  • Mesa/Boogie Fifty/Fifty
  • Engl
  • Microtube 200
  • Carver PCM120
  • FRYETTE TWO/FIFTY/TWO
  • Marshall 9200 Dual MonoBloc 100/100
  • Peavey Classic Series 50/50
  • Lexicon Signature 284

 

There are of course many more power amps, and while most of the ones I listed are Tube amps, there are of course solid state ones as well.  

 

I really think Option #1 of just being able to BYPASS the pre-amp of an AMP or AMP&CAB block opens up so many options.

 

My main problem with placing time based effects between the amp and cab or after the cab is that many effects respond to the gain section in the PREAMP,  

 

So... what does the hive mind think of this?

 

 

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Personally I like #3 the best.

 

I think it would be cool to mix and match the power amps of different amps that are already in the helix too. Most of them are already modeled and I would think all you would have to do is take

 

[amp block]-[preamp block]=[power amp block]

 

Maybe I'm wrong about this though. But I'm really curious what a deluxe reverb sounds like pushed through a 100 watt Marshall lead.

Will it sound good? I don't know. But I sure want to hear it.

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My main problem with placing time based effects between the amp and cab or after the cab is that many effects respond to the gain section in the PREAMP,  

 

Can you name an example? I can't think of anything I would ever use that benefits from being between the preamp and power amp. In fact, the only reason why effects loops exist on real amps is because it isn't terribly practical to try to have effects the guitarist can control somewhere after the mic (which is how it would normally be done in the studio). And the only reason I stick delays before the cab is because that's how I'm used to hearing them, so the coloration helps.

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Can you name an example? I can't think of anything I would ever use that benefits from being between the preamp and power amp. In fact, the only reason why effects loops exist on real amps is because it isn't terribly practical to try to have effects the guitarist can control somewhere after the mic (which is how it would normally be done in the studio). And the only reason I stick delays before the cab is because that's how I'm used to hearing them, so the coloration helps.

 

I'm not sure I'd use the word "benefit," more like just different.  Someone smarter than I will have to explain it.. but as best I can do...  I want my reverb. delays and even some things like Chorus or rotary effects to sound as they sound when only driven by the pre-amp, not what they sound like when being driven by an AMP or after the Cabinet.

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Just to follow up..  I had some time yesterday so I setup some patches...  from scratch...  

 

1.  AMP&CAB  >  63 Sprint

2.  AMP > 63 SRPING > CAB (same as used by combo block)

3.  PREAMP > 63 SPRING > ......  Ran into an issue here cause any amp I you would have a PREAMP again.

 

While 1 & 2 sounded very similar, there was a different feel.  I wasn't able to narrow down what was different but there was a difference and #2 certainly sounded better/more pleasing and natural out to my FRFR system.   In the headsets...  although I had to add a gain block at the end to bring up the level, #3 sounded the best to me.

 

I'm gonna figure out how to word this for IdeaScale.  I think it will be TWO ideascales.

 

1.  The ability to BYPASS the PREAMP of any AMP or AMP&CAB Block.  (effectively creating power amps.)

2.   Request models of Classic Power Amps.

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