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Helix with an Amplifier


sheehanje
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I bought my Helix a few months ago - and I'm pretty impressed with it.   I'll be honest though - I haven't done much with it as far as Amp/Cab Modelling - mainly because I have a pretty nice amplifier and cabinets.   I basically bought my Helix as an upgrade to my M13.  I love the expression pedal on the Helix - much better than the ones I bought for the M13.

 

I use Helix with the standard 4CM setup into a Mesa Mark V head - which in turn goes into a Torpedo Reload, then to 2 1X12 Mesa Cabinets.  In addition I run Midi to a Mini Amp Gizmo to control my head through the helix.   It works good - but I'm fairly primitive, a little delay, noise gate, a little chorus for my clean channel, I'm still on and off with the reverb units.   I'm using the expression to double for wah/volume.

 

I think I can do more, and I don't always know if I'm using the Helix correct.   I seem to get a bit of volume loss, probably due to be having to pad the effects loop to control feedback/unwanted noise and harshness.   Overall though, my setup sounds pretty sweet, but again, I think I'm barely tapping the potential of the Helix... so.....

 

I'd like to hear how other people with Amplifiers are using the Helix.  I've seen some guides out there, but is there a one stop site/thread/forum/etc. for Helix users that run it through an amp?   What's your setup?   What do you find effective for setting the ins/out levels at?  What's the best method for channel switching an amp without getting the dreaded delay between patches?  Are there any customtone banks available that work good for amp users?  Anyone having luck with the looper and an amp?  (I found that I like the M13 looper better out of the box, but I haven't experimented too much with the Helix).   Also, are you using your amps preamp, or Helix as a preamp?  Of course, add in any nuggets, tips, advice, woes, etc.  I'm very curious how others are using the Helix.

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I run my Helix direct into the front of my Blackstar HT20 on the clean channel (I only use it for monitoring).  I then run xlr into the PA for FOH, this setup seems to work fine for me.  If I want feedback, I can step closer to the amp, it seems to react well.

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I just got my Helix. I don't have a FRFR speaker or amp yet. I do have several nice tube amps. So, until I can get a full digital setup put together, I plan on putting the Helix into a tube amp. I haven't tried it yet, but my plan is to set up a test patch in the Helix with a few effects and a pre amp model and connect that into the FX Return of my tube amp, then into a guitar cab, and see how that works. I've read on other forums that I may need to use an amp and cab model to fill out the sound. I'll try all variations to see how this works.

I also plan on trying the four cable method. I have a six cable snake that I use with my pedal board now, so that will be no problem after I figure out how to do the routing in the Helix. Again, with the FCM, I'll have to experiment to see if I need pre amp, amp or cab models to fill out the sound. This is all preliminary planning by me, since I haven't had time to even plug the Helix in yet. Work is getting in the way of play again.

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I am using my Helix mainly with my Hughes & Kettner Switchblade amp.  It has 128 Presets controlled by MIDI.

 

At the moment I am primarily using it in 4cm, so I'm getting the majority of my drive tones directly from the amp.  However, it is not currently possible to set up the Helix to switch channels on the amp in a useable way within a Helix preset. 

 

What I mean is that yes I can send MIDI PC messages to get the amp to change channel, but those buttons then effectively choose a "scene" on the amp.  They are single press buttons... you do not press the same button again to turn off that amp sound and switch back to the first.  You must press another button to send a MIDI PC to recall that amp setting.

 

This is of course at odds with the way Helix works to switch FX blocks off and on.  You cannot assign one button as "ON" and the next as "OFF"..  you must use one button as a toggle.   While this works fine (for the most part) - it really falls flat on it's backside when dealing with amps and MIDI PC.

 

So I use one tube amp preset as the core tone for each song.  I then use Helix's drives/fuzzes/boosts etc to get more gain when required.  I can even be clever and switch in a Gain block set to -5dB before the AMP Send/Return to get less gain from my tube amp :)

 

I have one out going to 1/4in and the Switchblades power section and speaker, and before that a split to another path with an EQ and a Cab block which feeds to the XLR for PA, (and headphones for late night practice!!)

 

I have also experimented with using a Helix amp block to simulate my H&K tube preamp with very good results.  I set one footswitch to toggle between the Helix amp and the Send/Return block so I can easily tweak the Helix amp to dial in the closest copy of the tone.   I have to say I am really impressed with how close I can get the Helix to copy the real amp and, once I have carefully copied all my 35 odd settings that I use on the H&K into the Helix, I could happily gig without the H&K amp if I needed to travel light!

 

I think the Helix is a great piece of kit :)

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I run my Helix direct into the front of my Blackstar HT20 on the clean channel (I only use it for monitoring).  I then run xlr into the PA for FOH, this setup seems to work fine for me.  If I want feedback, I can step closer to the amp, it seems to react well.

Nahh man.. Go into your fx return. of course its all up to you about the sound, but going into the front of your amp is hitting the amps preamp and ideally you would like to bypass it and just hit the amp portion..

 

Fx return will allow for this giving you better tone and more options.

 

You can simultaneously come out of one of the helix outs and into the front end of your amp allowing you to choose that tone when you want as well. Youll just have to program the helix to turn off or on the appropriate ins/outs.

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Nahh man.. Go into your fx return. of course its all up to you about the sound, but going into the front of your amp is hitting the amps preamp and ideally you would like to bypass it and just hit the amp portion..

 

Fx return will allow for this giving you better tone and more options.

 

You can simultaneously come out of one of the helix outs and into the front end of your amp allowing you to choose that tone when you want as well. Youll just have to program the helix to turn off or on the appropriate ins/outs.

Do you need to use amp or cab models when going into the FX Return?

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I use presets with amp only models (no cabs) into the effects returns of my tube amps. Cab models and IRs seem a little too dark and muddy into a tube amp and regular guitar speakers.

 

You can split the path at the end and send a second XLR out with Cab or IR block to the PA.

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I use presets with amp only models (no cabs) into the effects returns of my tube amps. Cab models and IRs seem a little too dark and muddy into a tube amp and regular guitar speakers.

 

You can split the path at the end and send a second XLR out with Cab or IR block to the PA.

 

I'm doing something like this right now. I use my old Flextone III as more of a stage monitor using the 1/4 out from Helix into the effects return of the Flextone. I independently run the XLR out from the Helix into the house PAs. I use the L6 Super Clean channel on the Flextone to get as undistorted a signal as possible. Although I am surprised by how clean it is, I still wouldn't use it as the source of what the audience hears (either through the Flextone's XLR out or by miking its speakers), mostly because it lacks full range capability.

 

This isn't the ideal setup, but I share a monitor channel with several other musicians, so I won't be getting much guitar signal back to me any time soon. 

 

So there is still some lack of transparency with the Super Clean power amp only, but not so much that I notice it during the performance. It's cleaner than the cheap in-ear monitors I have right now. I could probably work out a complex output in which a pre-amp or pre-cab signal goes to the Flextone while the full signal goes to the house, but that would be a fairly massive project I don't really have time to set out on at the moment. I could buy more expensive in-ear monitors, but, after the Helix, but my wife has put her foot down on me spending any more on the guitar in the near future. I'm happy with it for the time being.

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I could probably work out a complex output in which a pre-amp or pre-cab signal goes to the Flextone while the full signal goes to the house, but that would be a fairly massive project I don't really have time to set out on at the moment.

 

A simple way to do this is just to pop a "SEND" block just before your cab / IR block.

 

The you just plug your stage amp into the SEND socket you've chosen.  The only down side to this is that you can't then use the Big Helix volume knob to control the volume of your stage amp - but as long as your amp has a volume control you're fine.

 

I have posted an idea scale for allowing the choice to direct the SEND block to go to more places like the 1/4in out (or USB) which would allow use of the Big Volume Knob.

http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/SEND-Block-to-more-places-e-g-1-4in-for-easy-IR-bypass/818624-23508

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A simple way to do this is just to pop a "SEND" block just before your cab / IR block.

 

The you just plug your stage amp into the SEND socket you've chosen.  The only down side to this is that you can't then use the Big Helix volume knob to control the volume of your stage amp - but as long as your amp has a volume control you're fine.

 

I have posted an idea scale for allowing the choice to direct the SEND block to go to more places like the 1/4in out (or USB) which would allow use of the Big Volume Knob.

http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/SEND-Block-to-more-places-e-g-1-4in-for-easy-IR-bypass/818624-23508

  

 

Good idea on the pre-cab/IR send block. I'm pretty reliant on the volume knob though now with all of my patches set up with a split to XLR.  I went to vote on the idea and it is "in review".  

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I use presets with amp only models (no cabs) into the effects returns of my tube amps. Cab models and IRs seem a little too dark and muddy into a tube amp and regular guitar speakers.

 

You can split the path at the end and send a second XLR out with Cab or IR block to the PA.

Thanks, that's a good tip. I only have a few hours with the Helix going into the FX Return of my tube amp. When I turn off the cab models, in the factory presets, it makes a big difference. Like removing a blanket off of the speaker cabinet. On the other hand, on a couple of presets that have an IR, it doesn't make as big of a difference. 

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Thanks, that's a good tip. I only have a few hours with the Helix going into the FX Return of my tube amp. When I turn off the cab models, in the factory presets, it makes a big difference. Like removing a blanket off of the speaker cabinet. On the other hand, on a couple of presets that have an IR, it doesn't make as big of a difference. 

 

You can also adjust the mix % (dry/wet) of an IR too to clear things up a bit coming out of your amp.  But of course that would also affect the XLR out unless you split the signal.

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Do you need to use amp or cab models when going into the FX Return?

I would just use preamp models when going into your fx return and allow your amp to power it and your speaker to sing its tune.

 

Though if you are front ending it, as you are in your case, the distortion fx (stomps) could liven things up...or even some fx could be cool there too, altho not an optimal spot for a verb or delay...but let your ear be the judge.

 

Use amp and cab models when going into your DAW or a flat frequency response speaker. Like a studio monitor. That is pretty descent.

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You can also adjust the mix % (dry/wet) of an IR too to clear things up a bit coming out of your amp.  But of course that would also affect the XLR out unless you split the signal.

Where are you with the Line 6 amp you just dusted off ?(i forget the model) Still digging it? I found 2 in my area for sale but they were $275

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Good idea on the pre-cab/IR send block. I'm pretty reliant on the volume knob though now with all of my patches set up with a split to XLR.  I went to vote on the idea and it is "in review".  

 

Seems you already voted for it on 21st April :)

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Where are you with the Line 6 amp you just dusted off ?(i forget the model) Still digging it? I found 2 in my area for sale but they were $275

The Spider Valve MKII HD100 head is still my favorite tube amp with Helix that I own. Ive been playing it all week, made some IR'S from it, and set up some patches with dual paths. I ordered a new display pcb for it for $20 from Full Circle to get it to 100%.

 

$275 sounds like a good price still. I've seen them usually for $300-$500. Hopefully you can try them out with your Helix before buying. I run SV at 50% Master Volume, Presence at 40%, and Helix Volume around 25%. It was designed to be used Celestion V30's and it sounds great with my Recto 212, but not sure how it would sound with other cabs.

 

I can't say SV is better than the DT50 since I haven't played Helix with one, but SV is half the price. And it does sound betier with Helix than my Mesa heads.

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Regarding going into the FX Return of a tube amp. I tried both pre amp and amp models. They both work. With a preamp model, you need to turn up the volume to get dynamics. A full amp model has a little more balls. Definitely I have to shut off cab models for this method of hooking up. I'm so pleased with what I'm getting, that I don't feel in a hurry to get a FRFR speaker and amp.

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Regarding going into the FX Return of a tube amp. I tried both pre amp and amp models. They both work. With a preamp model, you need to turn up the volume to get dynamics. A full amp model has a little more balls. Definitely I have to shut off cab models for this method of hooking up. I'm so pleased with what I'm getting, that I don't feel in a hurry to get a FRFR speaker and amp.

Thats great man. Hopefully you can agree then, that the switch over to the fx return set-up was something beneficial to you.

 

Theres no guarantee that FRFR is going to be a better  sound to your ear....so no, if youre happy, i wouldnt be in a rush either. Though sometimes you never know what youre missing until youve tried it :) Ignorance is bliss. :P

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I would just use preamp models when going into your fx return and allow your amp to power it and your speaker to sing its tune.

You're right with tube amps that really have their own character or coloration. I did use preamp only models with my Mesa Simul 290 power amp and Mesa Recto power amps. This makes the split signal to the PA very difficult since a cab/IR block on a preamp model is a little off.

 

The L6 Spider Valve with its very clean and neutral 6L6 tube power amp, designed for use with L6 modelers, is the first tube amp I've been able to use the full amp models with. I think the L6 DT series with EL34 power amp allows this as well from what I've read. New products from Freyette (Power Station $699) and Synergy (SYN5050 $?) are neutral 6L6 power amps are coming soon. Wouldn't be surprised if L6/Bogner has something in the works too.

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  • 3 weeks later...
A simple way to do this is just to pop a "SEND" block just before your cab / IR block.
 

The you just plug your stage amp into the SEND socket you've chosen.  The only down side to this is that you can't then use the Big Helix volume knob to control the volume of your stage amp - but as long as your amp has a volume control you're fine.

 

 

That is a good idea. And, I actually like that the Big Volume Knob wouldn't affect output to the stage amp. I could adjust the levels I send to the house with the BVK without adjusting the amp volume.

 

A couple questions though. Right now I arrange all my POST-AMP EFFECTS after the CABINET. (I will use all-caps to differentiate Helix models form my stage amp) Mostly EQ's, reverbs, and delays, but sometimes mods as well. These would obviously all be bypassed for the stage amp, but would still pass through to the house. I could rearrange the order to:  AMP > POST-EFFECTS > SEND to stage amp > CAB > OUTPUT. Do you have any opinion as to whether the final output would be drastically altered having the POST-EFFECTS between the AMP and the CAB models. I imagine it depends on the CAB model and its settings.

 

Second, does the SEND block attenuate the signal passing through to the main OUTPUT. In other words, I believe I am now getting 100% signal through XLR OUTPUT to the house and another 100% through 1/4" MONO OUTPUT to my amp. Would I now instead be getting 50% through SEND to the amp and 50% through XLR OUTPUT to the house? (Assume that I keep the output parameter of the SEND block at neutral.) I'm sure it can all be leveled out in any event. Thanks for the idea.

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A couple questions though. Right now I arrange all my POST-AMP EFFECTS after the CABINET. (I will use all-caps to differentiate Helix models form my stage amp) Mostly EQ's, reverbs, and delays, but sometimes mods as well. These would obviously all be bypassed for the stage amp, but would still pass through to the house. I could rearrange the order to:  AMP > POST-EFFECTS > SEND to stage amp > CAB > OUTPUT. Do you have any opinion as to whether the final output would be drastically altered having the POST-EFFECTS between the AMP and the CAB models. I imagine it depends on the CAB model and its settings.

 

Second, does the SEND block attenuate the signal passing through to the main OUTPUT. In other words, I believe I am now getting 100% signal through XLR OUTPUT to the house and another 100% through 1/4" MONO OUTPUT to my amp. Would I now instead be getting 50% through SEND to the amp and 50% through XLR OUTPUT to the house? (Assume that I keep the output parameter of the SEND block at neutral.) I'm sure it can all be leveled out in any event. Thanks for the idea.

 

First question - yes the cab will change/alter the sound a bit.  What you'll probably notice most is a bit less treble on things like reverb tails maybe... the post effects will bit a bit less pristine.   However - I think this is a good thing...It will sound more like an authentic miked up stage amp, and less like what happens on a CD mix where the producer/engineer adds extra reverb or delay to the guitar sound in the mix.  It depends what you are trying to achieve

 

Second - The send block should make no difference at all to the signal going through the main outs :)

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  • 1 year later...

I am using my Helix mainly with my Hughes & Kettner Switchblade amp.  It has 128 Presets controlled by MIDI.

 

At the moment I am primarily using it in 4cm, so I'm getting the majority of my drive tones directly from the amp.  However, it is not currently possible to set up the Helix to switch channels on the amp in a useable way within a Helix preset. 

 

What I mean is that yes I can send MIDI PC messages to get the amp to change channel, but those buttons then effectively choose a "scene" on the amp.  They are single press buttons... you do not press the same button again to turn off that amp sound and switch back to the first.  You must press another button to send a MIDI PC to recall that amp setting.

 

This is of course at odds with the way Helix works to switch FX blocks off and on.  You cannot assign one button as "ON" and the next as "OFF"..  you must use one button as a toggle.   While this works fine (for the most part) - it really falls flat on it's backside when dealing with amps and MIDI PC.

 

So I use one tube amp preset as the core tone for each song.  I then use Helix's drives/fuzzes/boosts etc to get more gain when required.  I can even be clever and switch in a Gain block set to -5dB before the AMP Send/Return to get less gain from my tube amp :)

 

I have one out going to 1/4in and the Switchblades power section and speaker, and before that a split to another path with an EQ and a Cab block which feeds to the XLR for PA, (and headphones for late night practice!!)

 

I have also experimented with using a Helix amp block to simulate my H&K tube preamp with very good results.  I set one footswitch to toggle between the Helix amp and the Send/Return block so I can easily tweak the Helix amp to dial in the closest copy of the tone.   I have to say I am really impressed with how close I can get the Helix to copy the real amp and, once I have carefully copied all my 35 odd settings that I use on the H&K into the Helix, I could happily gig without the H&K amp if I needed to travel light!

 

I think the Helix is a great piece of kit :)

hi.

i use the same amp with my helix. I would be very interessted in your helix copy version of the H&K. Do you think you can export and mail your helix settings? thank you.

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I bought my Helix a few months ago - and I'm pretty impressed with it.   I'll be honest though - I haven't done much with it as far as Amp/Cab Modelling - mainly because I have a pretty nice amplifier and cabinets.   I basically bought my Helix as an upgrade to my M13.  I love the expression pedal on the Helix - much better than the ones I bought for the M13.

 

I use Helix with the standard 4CM setup into a Mesa Mark V head - which in turn goes into a Torpedo Reload, then to 2 1X12 Mesa Cabinets.  In addition I run Midi to a Mini Amp Gizmo to control my head through the helix.   It works good - but I'm fairly primitive, a little delay, noise gate, a little chorus for my clean channel, I'm still on and off with the reverb units.   I'm using the expression to double for wah/volume.

 

I think I can do more, and I don't always know if I'm using the Helix correct.   I seem to get a bit of volume loss, probably due to be having to pad the effects loop to control feedback/unwanted noise and harshness.   Overall though, my setup sounds pretty sweet, but again, I think I'm barely tapping the potential of the Helix... so.....

 

I'd like to hear how other people with Amplifiers are using the Helix.  I've seen some guides out there, but is there a one stop site/thread/forum/etc. for Helix users that run it through an amp?   What's your setup?   What do you find effective for setting the ins/out levels at?  What's the best method for channel switching an amp without getting the dreaded delay between patches?  Are there any customtone banks available that work good for amp users?  Anyone having luck with the looper and an amp?  (I found that I like the M13 looper better out of the box, but I haven't experimented too much with the Helix).   Also, are you using your amps preamp, or Helix as a preamp?  Of course, add in any nuggets, tips, advice, woes, etc.  I'm very curious how others are using the Helix.

I have a blackstar ht stage 60 a peavey delta blues 2 thump 112 frfr speakers and what works for me and I am so so happy to use is the Seymour Duncan Powerstage 170 with my blackstar 212 cabinet.Everything sound great and I finally realized what people meant when they say it feels like a amp.The first time I used it it sounded and felt like a great tube amp even though its a SS unti.maybe its the headroom whatever it is,its the best thing Ive used.

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I recently worked up a cool hybrid patch that does 4CM with my Friedman amp, but also does Helix amp-cab modeling on a different path. It ends up being something like 7CM; but that's an XLR from the amp back to Helix, and two extra cables to run the send/returns through an Ebtech.

 

I don't have it set up to run any Helix preamps through the Friedman power amp; guess I should try that next!

 

I run the in and out from the amp using the Helix send and returns instead of the main 1/4" outputs, so the master volume doesn't impact the amp level.

I also use the XLR out (analog cab sim) from the Friedman, back to the Helix, and record USB 8 to get that signal in there. Haven't tried routing the mic in back to the main outs..

 

I use path 2A for the Helix amp model post FX (mod / delay / verb), and path 2B for the amp mod / delay / verb. Can get some cool wet/dry combinations going.

 

I suppose I could figure out a way to get the mic signal into path 2A; but that might cause some really weird things to happen... cascading mod-delay-verb back into more mod-delay-verb!

 

Lots of routing options on Helix for using amps along side FRFR. In this case it's mostly at home; the FRFR are a pair of L3m and pair of Yamaha HS5. I find setting the global EQ to the XLR outputs help dial in the Yamahas; I use the L6link to the L3m's, and don't turn them up much.

 

It makes for an elegant self contained recording system; I record USB 1/2, USB7 and USB8. USB is the XLR in; just have to be sure to set the input trim properly so it doesn't get too hot and clip.

 

Also; I split path 1A before the Helix amp-cab; path 1B then outputs to send 1/2. Path 2B then inputs from return 2, and outputs to send 3/4. It helps to cut the send and returns if needed for balancing amp and playback when overdubbing. Haven't tried setting those values to snapshots yet; I suppose that would make for an easy clean boost! 

 

I have to run the send and return on the amp through an Ebtech hum eliminator; and I use a little of the noise gate on the return 2 input block for path 2B. Helps filter any noise being connected to the USB lets slip through. Without the Ebtech is was a torrential mess of noise; now it's mostly clean and a little noise gate before the mod/delay/verbs helps tidy up the rest.

 

Also; this lets me run the amp only 'wet' FX (excluding the reverb) in mono, while the HX amp model mod/delay/verb run in stereo. Not as many overall options available; due to the doubling up to make isolated channels, but it does pretty well.

 

The shared front end FX work nicely on both the real amp and amp model; can get some cool layering of tones with the new EP comp and boost, the Klon TImmy and OCD.

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Funny that this thread is still going.   I ended up ditching all my amps for two Stagesource L3T's and have been getting great results.   My last two shows have been a single L3T setup as a monitor, then XLR to FOH.   Keeping getting a lot of comments at how good it sounds.   I sort of miss my amps, but I definitely don't miss tube rolls and microphonic squeal suddenly in the middle of a set.   Good lasting tubes are getting harder to come by these days, and I'm of the opinion now that modelling is the best way to preserve tube amp sound.  It's only a matter of time before more tube factories go offline, driving up the price and driving down the quality yet again.

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  • 1 year later...

I have a Helix I run it through 2 HEADRUSH FRFR112 .2000 WATT'S EACH.It sound's awesome.There are 2 channels on each speaker a high filter switch ,& a ground switch XLR inputs or 2,  1/4 plug inputs.I use the XLR.I bought 2 so I could setup my sound in Stereo.I could of had it running through my 240 watt Spider 5 witch has 2 X12 inch woffers & X2 5 inch mid/ teeters.line 6 say's it's a full range Amp but it only has  guitar input 2 USB.2 XLR out 1Aux 1.headphone socket . it's loud. But I wanted to do the 4 cable method.But can't with what I have.I also bought the headrush pedal board as I loved the idea of the touch screen .But I seem to use the Helix a lot more even know the headrush is easier to use.I also love how you can change the tunner on the Helix you have 3 options I like the strobe it's so spot on..Rock on Rockers

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That is what is amazing with the helix , the ability to explore all the options , I found the frfr to be more quieter , but the tube amp to sound more natural , here goes a suggestion , if you want to use more the possibilities of the helix , get some frfr but keep your amp , and than you use stereo effects on the frfr , and your tube dry and clean on the middle wet dry wet, , or you can experiment dry wet dry settings , or use the delais to bounce from left to right , and have the main amp distorted , just use the frfr to bring dimension to your sound . I need one more frfr , but is were I am moving towards 

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I run my Helix straight into the low input of a late 90s Fender Hot Rod Deville, with the bass and treble controls currently at noon, mids around 9 o'clock or so, presence 9-10 o'clock.  The amp's sound by itself is really "flavorless", so 4CM would be worth little to me, but as a platform for modeled amps and effects, it works well in really warming it up, and giving actual physical feedback.  I figure the preamp/tone controls work not too differently from how people use the studio mic preamp after an amp model to "warm it up", and the physical tone controls on the amp let me tweak the overall sound on the fly in a pinch.  Also, the DeVille doesn't have a good effects loop, so volume control without the preamp is.....well, yeah.  Since the Helix volume knob is supposed to be always maxed for unity gain, I don't think using it as a master volume for the power amp will work that great.

 

When I went to buy the Helix, the guys at GC on duty that night seemed to be doing their best not to put any effort into helping me see how it would sound the way I would use it.  "Uh, you need to use this powered cabinet we're selling for $1000.  So I'm not gonna hook this unit into a tube amp like you want, cuz uh, I don't want to take the time, and it'll suck anyway.  Maybe you should just get an HX FX."  I bought it in SPITE of their attempts to sabotage the sale.  When I played it through the powered cab, it sounded so.....lifeless and dull.  Of course, presets always kinda suck, so maybe that had something to do with it.

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