Rotary speaker fast speed

[zooey]

Well frankly it sucks. Has anyone been able to get anything not cartoon-like out of it?

 

I've messed w the speed, even looked up and tried to the speed of the originals, no joy. It's way overmodulated maybe, just completely artificial and fake to me, nothing like the original, which I love, like for instance this:

 

You can't change the modulation depth, and lowering the mix control doesn't make sense, both in terms of what's being modeled, and because it's so band-limited, mixing it with non-Leslie tones is and sounds completely wrong.

 

I'm picking on the fast speed because it's so awful, but neither model is that great slow either. One kind of has no bottom end, the other no top without some overdrive, but in some contexts the slow speed works kind of ok, and so far, for me, the fast speed just doesn't. And how come the speed parameters of the two models are from completely different universes? Makes it much harder to switch from one to the other keeping "the same" settings.

 

In all fairness, a Leslie isn't a trivial thing to emulate. In VST-land I have several Leslie sims, most of which weren't the cheapest, and they're varying degrees of succesful depending on the application, but none of them really have that thrill a real Leslie gives you, fast or slow. Some eat a ton of CPU too.

 

That said, Helix is where I am these days, and I really wish this feature  was better sounding, especially the fast speed. If anyone has any thoughts on how to get something un-cheesy out of it, by all means enlighten me. Line 6, if you're looking for rough spots that could use some TLC, IMO that's one, and I hope it gets some attention.

[PeterHamm]

Are you using the leslie with your amp cab turned OFF? That's important.

I like the Leslie (especially the Fender and the 145) effects a LOT.

[JLondon]

It's been a complete failure for me also.  HOWEVER_ I have just recently learned, as previously mentioned in this thread, that I should try NOT using it in conjunction with other cabs in the chain.  Makes sense to me and I intend to try before closing the books on the subject.  

[zooey]

Yes I'm using the rotaries as replacements for a cab, because that's what they are functionally, and because they have that extreme high end filtering like a real one, which you don't want happening from a cab too.

 

But frequency response isn't mostly what I'm talking about, it's the modulation in fast mode. Just sounds completely amateur to me, not like a real one at all, or like most of Helix.

[PeterHamm]

Yes I'm using the rotaries as replacements for a cab, because that's what they are functionally, and because they have that extreme high end filtering like a real one, which you don't want happening from a cab too.

 

But frequency response isn't mostly what I'm talking about, it's the modulation in fast mode. Just sounds completely amateur to me, not like a real one at all, or like most of Helix.

 

Not my experience. Sounds a LOT like my real Leslie 145 I used to have.

[maxnew40]

What I did that I think sounds pretty good is to put an amp block and then a cab or IR and drag it down to 1B and then put another cab or IR on 1A (signal splits after amp to two cabs). Then on path 1B put the leslie and set up switch so that it turns off the cab and turns on the Leslie.  I am not sure how authentic it sounds but I sure thought it sounded good to my old ears.

 

-Max

[Paolo_Maina]

I put an idea on Ideascale, because leslies in Helix suck.

I'd like to an hi fi leslie who cares that the real one cut all the high frequency?

i'd like to have a block simple to use like univibe or a modern leslie simulator pedal.

I like the modulation of a leslie not the problems.

Model a Neo Ventilator pedal

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv_Fhr9oqeU

[zooey]

@Max and @Peter, if you wouldn't mind posting a clip of what you're getting on fast speed, I'd appreciate it. Does it sound anything like the clip I posted? Don't think mine does, but maybe I'm just being weird.

 

@Paolo, great idea in theory, but if I'm not mistaken, the way L6 does this is to build models of physical circuit components, which when modeled individually and hooked up like they are the the real unit, behaves like one. They don't model the behavior of a whole box, and I'm pretty sure the Ventilator is digital (runs on a SHARC chip), so the component modeling process doesn't apply.

[hobbes40]

I have experimented with all three leslies on the Helix. Better or worse results depending on which one. The Fender vibratone clone is the best of the lot for me, then 145 then 122. I have found that depending on the IR I'm using (I use nearly all third party IRs from The Amp Factory or OH) and the amp sim, sometimes it's best to have the rotary on it's own with cab IR disabled but sometimes it sounds good to me with the cab IR on and the rotary on (either directly after IR, on path A or dropped down on eto path B and "mixed" in with the cab IR.

 

I also have exp. 1 set to blend the mix of the rotary into the main guitar signal so, on the presents with cab IR on all the time, I can bring the Leslie/Vibe in as much as I want. That, for me, was a very cool find in the controllers. I do make sure to cut the max speed down some from the full speed the sim is capable of running. At max for me, I like it in the 5-6 range and low speed in the 1-1.5 range.

 

edit: I also have some (light) reverb in the background too, simulating a room, usually. I like the depth this adds to the sound.

[maxnew40]

@Max and @Peter, if you wouldn't mind posting a clip of what you're getting on fast speed, I'd appreciate it. Does it sound anything like the clip I posted? Don't think mine does, but maybe I'm just being weird.

 

@Paolo, great idea in theory, but if I'm not mistaken, the way L6 does this is to build models of physical circuit components, which when modeled individually and hooked up like they are the the real unit, behaves like one. They don't model the behavior of a whole box, and I'm pretty sure the Ventilator is digital (runs on a SHARC chip), so the component modeling process doesn't apply.

 

I didn't try to get anything that subtle on the Leslie when I was playing with it (plus my tone was way brighter than that). 

 

-Max

[PeterHamm]

I'll try to make a clip when I get a chance.

[Paolo_Maina]

@Max and @Peter, if you wouldn't mind posting a clip of what you're getting on fast speed, I'd appreciate it. Does it sound anything like the clip I posted? Don't think mine does, but maybe I'm just being weird.

 

@Paolo, great idea in theory, but if I'm not mistaken, the way L6 does this is to build models of physical circuit components, which when modeled individually and hooked up like they are the the real unit, behaves like one. They don't model the behavior of a whole box, and I'm pretty sure the Ventilator is digital (runs on a SHARC chip), so the component modeling process doesn't apply.

maybe i can't express me well in english, i mean they have to make a Ventilator pedal inside Helix.

For example they added extra controls in amps that in the real life don't exist in that type of amp or for example they added a mix control in the Dynacomp model, but the real one doesn't have a mix control knob.

I mean if it's virtual you are free to cheat, or almost make almost one hi fi  leslie and the others exactly like the old real ones for the purists

[jbutler]

As a huge Leslie fan, I am also disappointed with the Helix version.

I sold my 145 years ago and went with a bunch of sims, Korg G4, H&K Rotosphere, Strymon Lex, and recently got a Neo Mini Vent.

ALL of them sound better than the Helix version.

In interest of simplicity I only bring Helix to my gigs now, and it excels at many things.

But I still find myself turning the Leslie off a lot when the sound does not work for the song.

All my sim pedals work in almost any song and of course I could always put one of them in the efx loop, but I am on a mission to dial in a acceptable Leslie on the Helix.

I have found that putting it on a parallel path helps a lot, lowering the mix, as well as disabling the cab/IR, and also disabling reverb and delay.

But I can't get away from that tanky midrange cloudy low-fi sound.

Hoping for an update soon with a more hi-fi, less colored Leslie.

Any programming tips or hints would be appreciated! 

[zooey]

Not to be a monomaniac, but I'm not talking so much about frequency response, like the folks with parallel paths, multiple cabs, etc..

 

I'm unhappy with the modulation at any fast speed settings, sounds cheesy and effect-y to me, doesn't remind me of a real Leslie at all. If anyone has great fast speed settings, and/or a clip of what they sound like, that'd be awesome.

 

I haven't explored the Fender enough, will check that out, but other than that, I think I've been down the available roads, didn't care for the scenery.

[maxnew40]

The there is also the fact that many Leslie cab tones from different bands sound very different to me. For example I think of Leslie tones from the Badfinger song No Matter what, versus the sound that Pat Travers had on the live go for what you know record (that don't sounds much like an organ like the Badfinger song does). Then there was this Canadian band Wireless that had some excellent Leslie tones that sounds like an organ in many places. It is the Badfinger and Wireless tones that I would like to get, but I haven't really tried yet (those sounds have this organic sound that no Leslie simulator that doesn't have an actual rotating speaker can seem emulate that well).

 

-Max