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Helix dual path setup


chuskey
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This info will probably be 101 type stuff for a lot of regulars on this forum in particular, but I had gotten some questions on my other patch videos about dual paths and stereo setups.  

 

So I made a video building a patch showing how to do this.  If anyone has any questions about setting up dual paths this might be helpful. 

 

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Sorry if i missed it, but what is the difference between thispaths.PNG 

 

and this?

paths%202.PNG

 

Dual mono and stereo? Dual stereo?

 

If you look at the second pic the merge mixer only shows up in the bottom path ( the lil circle) and if you alter the "b polarity" inside the merge mixer (click on little circle first)  nothing happens. Not only that, but the set-up ive shown in my second picture is louder....and maybe even different tonally, but its a little hard to be certain with the volume jump.

 

Now if you click on the merge mixer in the first pic i have shown the "b polarity" option flips the "phase" as intended.

 

Which brings me to my last thought. If my second pic is showing dual stereo, which im thinking it does, is there a way to set up a mono reverb?.......without having to use a mono block after the verb, to force mono?

 

Thanks for the vid.  

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Sorry if i missed it, but what is the difference between thispaths.PNG

 

and this?

paths%202.PNG

 

Dual mono and stereo? Dual stereo?

 

If you look at the second pic the merge mixer only shows up in the bottom path ( the lil circle) and if you alter the "b polarity" inside the merge mixer (click on little circle first)  nothing happens. Not only that, but the set-up ive shown in my second picture is louder....and maybe even different tonally, but its a little hard to be certain with the volume jump.

 

Now if you click on the merge mixer in the first pic i have shown the "b polarity" option flips the "phase" as intended.

 

Which brings me to my last thought. If my second pic is showing dual stereo, which im thinking it does, is there a way to set up a mono reverb?.......without having to use a mono block after the verb, to force mono?

 

Thanks for the vid.  

 

Good Question!  

 

I would have thought your first and second examples would sound identical (unless you'd adjusted any settings on the merge block)

 

If they sound different I wonder why???

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Thanks for posting the video, that was very helpful!

 

On a related note; I was hoping to be using the Helix with a backline amp, so no cab sim on my live patches, but then also have an output with cab sim for going into the mixing board. I wasn't sure if that was possible, but from watching this video it looks like you can specify for each output in the patch which hardware output sockets that goes to. Is that correct?

 

So I should be able to easily split off all my live patches and have cab sim on the XLR outputs, but not on the 1/4" ?

 

Thanks!

Kasper

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Thanks for posting the video, that was very helpful!

 

On a related note; I was hoping to be using the Helix with a backline amp, so no cab sim on my live patches, but then also have an output with cab sim for going into the mixing board. I wasn't sure if that was possible, but from watching this video it looks like you can specify for each output in the patch which hardware output sockets that goes to. Is that correct?

 

So I should be able to easily split off all my live patches and have cab sim on the XLR outputs, but not on the 1/4" ?

 

Thanks!

Kasper

I'm glad that was helpful!

 

Yes, if you put the cabs in a separate path and then assign that path to a different physical output it should be able to do exactly what you need.  

 

 

 

 

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That's just awesome! Had been looking into various other options like DI boxes and such, but that all requires extra space in a live rig... and cost real money, if I wanted something decent sounding.

 

Oh man, this might be the last push I needed to tip me over. I think GAS is starting to get the better of me (again) ;)

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Sorry if i missed it, but what is the difference between thispaths.PNG

 

and this?

paths%202.PNG

 

Dual mono and stereo? Dual stereo?

 

If you look at the second pic the merge mixer only shows up in the bottom path ( the lil circle) and if you alter the "b polarity" inside the merge mixer (click on little circle first)  nothing happens. Not only that, but the set-up ive shown in my second picture is louder....and maybe even different tonally, but its a little hard to be certain with the volume jump.

 

Now if you click on the merge mixer in the first pic i have shown the "b polarity" option flips the "phase" as intended.

 

Which brings me to my last thought. If my second pic is showing dual stereo, which im thinking it does, is there a way to set up a mono reverb?.......without having to use a mono block after the verb, to force mono?

 

Thanks for the vid.  

I don't have my Helix in front of me, but Just looking at the pic it seems like in the first image the 1st IR would end up going through the 2nd IR and getting affected tonally by it because they merge back into the same path.  

 

In the 2nd image both IR's maintain their own discrete path and wouldn't affect one another.

 

The 2nd could be louder because you have 2 separate outputs vs one, or that when you merge the two and one IR goes into another you are getting some phase cancellation. Without experimenting with this I'm not sure exactly what the case is.  

 

 As far as the phasing on the first and second example maybe you aren't hearing any difference in the 2nd because the channels are discrete?

 

Like I said, I'd have to setup a patch and play around with it to give you exact answers, but I'm just thinking about it off the top of my head.  

 

As far as the reverb, in the 2nd example you could send both outputs to 2A and then put a mono reverb on 2A that would affect both of them.  They would basically merge at 2A into one path.  

 

Hope this is helpful, and that my answers are right :)

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That's just awesome! Had been looking into various other options like DI boxes and such, but that all requires extra space in a live rig... and cost real money, if I wanted something decent sounding.

 

Oh man, this might be the last push I needed to tip me over. I think GAS is starting to get the better of me (again) ;)

Go for it! :)

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Good Question!  

 

I would have thought your first and second examples would sound identical (unless you'd adjusted any settings on the merge block)

 

If they sound different I wonder why???

Maybe give it a go and see what you get.

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Hope this is helpful, and that my answers are right :)

Its a little much to digest, i know. I'll let us kick it around for a few days and see what we come up with.

 

Though, id never really given consideration that my first image, one cab sound may be passing thru the other.  My gut tells me thats not the case, but i can definitely see your point there.

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I have a Helix coming tomorrow so can't be 100% sure but this Helix layout is very similar to my Axe 2 grid layout. I don't think one cab is passing through another here. In the first picture  Row 1 is amp and IR row 2 is amp and different IR. At no point do the IRs  feed into each other, they simply end up on the same path out which will not pass one through another it will simply merge the 2  tones (Post IRs) into one output path which will obviously make a difference in sound but it isnt feeding one IR into another. Nice video btw enjoyed watching it

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Sorry if i missed it, but what is the difference between thispaths.PNG

 

and this?

paths%202.PNG

 

Dual mono and stereo? Dual stereo?

 

If you look at the second pic the merge mixer only shows up in the bottom path ( the lil circle) and if you alter the "b polarity" inside the merge mixer (click on little circle first)  nothing happens. Not only that, but the set-up ive shown in my second picture is louder....and maybe even different tonally, but its a little hard to be certain with the volume jump.

 

Now if you click on the merge mixer in the first pic i have shown the "b polarity" option flips the "phase" as intended.

 

Which brings me to my last thought. If my second pic is showing dual stereo, which im thinking it does, is there a way to set up a mono reverb?.......without having to use a mono block after the verb, to force mono?

 

Thanks for the vid.  

 

There should be very little difference between these two. I think the only difference is that when you merge two paths, there is a 3db drop built into the merge block so that would explain why the un-merged paths are a little lower in volume. I guess the difference in these is where the merge of the stereo path takes place. In the first one it's before the output block, and in the second it's at the output block. The second one, of course, gives you the option to send each path to separate physical outputs if you want to.

 

To answer your question about the reverbs, all the reverbs are stereo, so if you want to sum them to mono, you would need to use a mono block after it. Also, if you're using the 1/4" outs or the XLR outs, using only one of them will sum to mono (as opposed to only giving you one half of the stereo signal).

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Its a little much to digest, i know. I'll let us kick it around for a few days and see what we come up with.

 

Though, id never really given consideration that my first image, one cab sound may be passing thru the other.  My gut tells me thats not the case, but i can definitely see your point there.

The more I think about it, with that being a merge point I am wrong about one IR passing through the other.  That's what I get for answering questions first thing in the morning and without checking it on the device first :)

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