Helix + H9 MIDI Question

[jetdriver]

Hello all.

 

Before I ask, yes I am aware that the H9 does not have spillover when switching from one prefer to another.

 

My scenario is this. I've connected an H9 in mono to my Helix in send/return 1. If I create a footswitch assignment to engage/disengage this loop, and have some ambient patch loaded on the H9, when I bypass it oh the helix, I still hear the spillover. That's great. However, if I go into global settings and assign that same footswitch a program change to call up that preset on the H9 the spillover doesn't work, even tho I am staying on the SAME H9 PRESET. My understanding is it should cut off the spillover only when changing to different presets in H9. Am I wrong?

[ricksteruk]

It's hard to know how the H9 works..

maybe when you send it a program change it loads the program and restarts it from initial settings even if you're already on that preset - hence no spill.

[lokimoto]

Indeed H9 does not have the spillover capability, but the DSP+FX bypass, which bypass the pedal and the effect continues, just like the spillover.

 

If you're using 2 different presets in H9 and switching between them, then thre is no way out. But if you just use one effect and then bypasses this effect eventually, then you should have the spillover, setting the DSP+FX bypass.

[jetdriver]

Thanks for the feedback

 

Lokimoto, this was also my thinking, but the Helix is still cutting off the H9 spillover.

 

I think ricksteruk may be into something tho. That by using midi, even when bypassing the effect in Helix, simply pressing the footswitch again causes the H9 to reload the same effect (and therefore cutoff spillover).

 

I will keep working on it.

[lokimoto]

But why don't you call the preset in H9 when you call the preset in Helix? 
From what I understand, you could do that, since you turn on/off the loop. 

This way, the preset would be ready for when you turn ON the loop and would have no problem at all when turning the loop off.

[jetdriver]

If I do not use midi with the h9 I have spillover. It means I have to first manually select the preset on h9 then activate the loop via footswitch on the helix.

 

If I try to use midi to select the preset on h9 AND turn on/off the loop with one footswitch on helix, spillover doesn't work. Even if I'm staying in the same preset.

 

My understanding was that spillover on H9 would only get cutoff if I switched to a DIFFERENT preset.

[lokimoto]

Just a silly question, the option trails in Helix's loop menu is ON?

[jetdriver]

Yep. It is.

[Digital_Igloo]

Sorry guys. That post was an autocorrect nightmare. I fixed it. No other gear involved but Helix and an H9. I'm simply trying to control preset changes on the H9 with helix and have each preset coincide with the fx loop1 activate/bypass on helix. 

So for example I want to create a long reverb sound using H9. I create an FX LOOP 1 block and turn tails ON. Now, if I manually select that reverb patch first on H9 THEN simply use helix to turn on and off the loop, I have trails. 

 

But I want to go a step further and assign a PC to the FX LOOP 1 switch on helix, so it will automatically call up the correct H9 preset and turn in/off fx loop 1 with one button. I have been able to get this to work also. The problem occurs when I go to switch the FX LOOP 1 switch on Helix off, it kills the trails even tho I'm not changing to a DIFFERENT preset on h9. 

 

I know H9 doesn't support trials, but I thought it would only kill your trail of you select A DIFFERENT preset on h9. I thought if you stayed on the same one you would still have trails. 

 

My only guess is that when bypassing the fx loop on helix it's sending a PC again and killing the current trail as it bypasses the effect. 

 

My workaround for now it to not use midi for H9 presets that I need spillover on. 

 

Hey Jetdriver,

 

Hope you don't mind that I quoted your last post from FB.

 

I'm not sure why you'd want to send a PC message to H9 when you don't want to change its preset. Are you trying to reset it to its last saved state?

 

Could be that reloading presets in H9 also reloads that preset's DSP instead of resetting the individual parameters. I understand why they'd do this—it's much simpler to implement.

 

Also, I've noticed as I change banks etc. the Helix will sometimes change presets on the H9 randomly. Even tho I haven't programmed anything. It doesn't matter what MIDI channel I set them to talk to each other on. Not an issue, since the loop on helix is off, you don't hear anything. It simply means I can't use midi and have it stay on the last used preset.

 

Yep; by default, Helix will send MIDI PC messages when switching its own presets. Turn Global Settings > MIDI/Tempo > MIDI PC Send/Receive to "Off." This won't affect any PC messages you send from the Command Center.

[jetdriver]

Hi!

 

Well, I'm not intentionally trying to reload a preset. I just think that's what's happening when I bypass it in helix. Helix must be sending a PC each time I mash the button. I just figured that if the H9 stayed in the same preset it would have spillover.

[Digital_Igloo]

Well, I'm not intentionally trying to reload a preset. I just think that's what's happening when I bypass it in helix. Helix must be sending a PC each time I mash the button. I just figured that if the H9 stayed in the same preset it would have spillover.

Don't assign anything in the Command Center; just assign an FX Loop block to the desired switch (with its Trails parameter on, of course). Unless you specifically want to change presets in H9 (or presumably reload the current preset's default parameters), there's no reason to send a PC (program change) message.

 

H9 should always be active; the FX Loop block simply inserts/removes it from the signal path. When the FX Loop's Trails parameter is on, bypassing the FX Loop block mutes the Send to H9 but leaves the Return enabled, so you can hear trails from whatever is connected.

[jetdriver]

Right. But that means I have to choose each sound on the H9 in advance, then activate/bypass the loop on the Helix. I want to control the H9 with helix too.

 

I was simply under the impression that if I didn't change to a different preset on H9 I would still have spillover. If the return on helix is still enabled then the H9 should still be making noise. If I want to use multiple blocks on a helix preset with different H9 sounds (a reverb, delay etc) I don't want to have to select it on H9 first. I know I can't run more than one at a time, but that's still more button presses. Trying to harness midi.

 

My guess is that I'm sending a PC message each time, and as previously stated, even reloading the same preset on H9 wipes out the spillover.

[Digital_Igloo]

Right. But that means I have to choose each sound on the H9 in advance, then activate/bypass the loop on the Helix. I want to control the H9 with helix too.

 

I was simply under the impression that if I didn't change to a different preset on H9 I would still have spillover. If the return on helix is still enabled then the H9 should still be making noise. If I want to use multiple blocks on a helix preset with different H9 sounds (a reverb, delay etc) I don't want to have to select it on H9 first. I know I can't run more than one at a time, but that's still more button presses. Trying to harness midi.

 

My guess is that I'm sending a PC message each time, and as previously stated, even reloading the same preset on H9 wipes out the spillover.

 

If Trails are on, the Return on Helix is indeed still enabled, but yeah, if H9 receives a PC message, its own trails will cut off. This is normal.

 

Do you want to change H9 sounds while you're in the same Helix preset?

• IF YES—Assign a dedicated Command Center footswitch to change the H9 sound and a different switch to enable/disable Helix's FX Loop
• IF NO—Assign the PC message to one of the Command Center's Instant (lightning bolt icon) commands. In this case, recalling the Helix preset will also recall the H9 preset (no footswitch assignment necessary), after which your FX Loop switch will insert/disable H9 into Helix's signal path with (or without) trails

[mforester]

I'm a bit of a newbie to all of this so excuse my suggestion if not useful. Mission Engineering just came out with the SP-H9 which is an expression pedal designed specifically for use with the Eventide H9. Could you use something like this to just keep the H9 preset and loop on and just use the pedal as a volume control and move it to heel down (no volume) when you don't need it?