8 is not enough

[pilottes]

Had my Helix for 3 months now. Still loving it. I brushed quite a few time with the limit of 8 assignments to a footswitch. Just a quick example.

 

Defined a SOLO footswitch Raise the Level, Mid and high on an EQ, Change the Gain and Ch level on the AMP. Change the Reverb parameters, activated a ducked delay, deactivat a base delay. What about wanting to change Comp and added Distortion pedal....

 

You get quickly to and above the limit. If this limit is hardcode ADIOS thwe scene thing.

 

Why a limit? I would double it to 16 at least.

 

Not a complain, an observation.

[Digital_Igloo]

It's actually a UX decision, not a technical one. Repeatedly touching a footswitch cycles through all (up to) eight assignments, and any more than that would dissuade people from using the touch-select feature.

 

I believe there's an IdeaScale request to expand this.

[robbieb61]

Hopefully that will be changed. I am always one or two footswitch assignments away from getting mine just right for lead changes. It does get kinda frustrating. 

[pilottes]

I don't want to get into a long debate about Ideascale but Ideascale is sort of not the perfect forum for some items. Number 8 was a UX decision and corrective actions should remain in your hands and not depends on votes. Ideascale would be more for additional models and such don't you think?

 

You would skip over a some great ideas because it doesn't show up on Ideascale?

[Digital_Igloo]

I don't want to get into a long debate about Ideascale but Ideascale is sort of not the perfect forum for some items. Number 8 was a UX decision and corrective actions should remain in your hands and not depends on votes. Ideascale would be more for additional models and such don't you think?

 

You would skip over a some great ideas because it doesn't show up on Ideascale?

 

Not at all—IdeaScale is one of many tools we use. We do, however, need to defend our decisions to the organization, and it helps a lot to have metrics of some sort. "Oh, these two guys on the forum were talking about it" isn't a good defense when others might say "man, it's really annoying to have to keep touching the switch fifteen times to get back to the assignment I want." IdeaScale gives me (and you) ammo.

 

In some cases there's a better solution that may not be obvious. Personally, I treat IdeaScale's feature requests less as solutions and more as problems to solve. Much of Helix was built from understanding the problems users had with existing Line 6 (and other companies') products.

[regalpierot]

SRV used to just stomp on the single Ibanez Tube Scream switch to engage it, then switch it off again. I'm just saying :)

[pilottes]

I have to say up front that I have no idea how many ressources are involved in a project like Helix. How many people, how issues are escalated, etc. I do get the impression that it is with great pain and difficulty that decisions are made and that it all take a lot of time. It's a bit unfortunate but it looks like its the way thing work when everything is scaled X times. We can only hope the right decisions are made not the get a better product but to get the best product. 

 

As for the number of assignments to a footswitch you could have left that decision to the user. In a sense, thuser that find 3 assignments and more will limit himself to 3 and less. Every body would find its own magic number. Deciding 8 is kind of arbitrary. 

[mdmayfield]

Some kind of "scene mode" - hopefully a brilliantly clever, elegant implementation that nobody else has thought of - would solve this issue and more.

[pilottes]

SRV used to just stomp on the single Ibanez Tube Scream switch to engage it, then switch it off again. I'm just saying :)

 

I happened to see Gilmore's double effect rack !! OMG   8-[   

[Lag-ato]

We could just have the foot switches scribble strips label every pedal that's assigned to it upon holding (like pedal edit mode). Either depressed or just touched. It shouldn't interfere with pedal assignment because when you hold a touch you use the main screen to confirm or deny anyway.

 

This was a quick thought. I'm not sure if either method interferes with other parameters. 

[spikey]

SRV used to just stomp on the single Ibanez Tube Scream switch to engage it, then switch it off again. I'm just saying :)

That's what most like to ignore because it defeats the idea that more is better. For those like him (there have been just a few) less was indeed enough. OTOH I don't know who did his amp setups sound/tone wise , but that guy is worth his weight in gold too. Together they made history. I love my Helix, but 10 of um won't make me ever sound like he did. Sigh....

[HonestOpinion]

That's what most like to ignore because it defeats the idea that more is better. For those like him (there have been just a few) less was indeed enough. OTOH I don't know who did his amp setups sound/tone wise , but that guy is worth his weight in gold too. Together they made history. I love my Helix, but 10 of um won't make me ever sound like he did. Sigh....

 

You're right, some of the sound will always come down to the fingers and feel of the original guitarist as well as the strings they used, the guitar, and the equipment they recorded on. I have several guitarist friends who are passionate to say the least about the blues. They have an encyclopedic to the point of obsessive knowledge of the blues and can tell you exactly what so and so was drinking the night he recorded yea and such "B" side in 1938. They will swear it is blasphemy to use ANY pedal between a guitar and an amp. Generally, hard-core minimalists are not the ones who are going to purchase or get the most out of a Helix although some of them might be hard pressed to differentiate between a blind test of a well set up simple preset and a "real" amp and cab.

[Phil_B]

Hey Guys, Sorry to jump in with a question - I encountered this issue today (got my Helix yesterday) because I'm trying to toggle between 4 different amps within one patch. Not sure if i'm going a bout this the right way, but I'm using the 4 Tone Switcher template as a starting point and then using the footswitch assign to change the levels associated with each amp. Im sure there is an easier way though...

[Digital_Igloo]

Some kind of "scene mode" - hopefully a brilliantly clever, elegant implementation that nobody else has thought of - would solve this issue and more.

 

You mean the feature that's been in digital mixers, multitrack recorders, and DAWs for decades?  :D

[mdmayfield]

You mean the feature that's been in digital mixers, multitrack recorders, and DAWs for decades?  :D

 

Well, yes... but those things have vast tracts of RAM, and none of them are meant to be simple enough the average guitarist can use it. :)   If such a thing is being worked on or explored, I have to assume "the devil is in the details" as far as how to implement the UX of it so that it doesn't hopelessly complicate things.

 

For example, touch and hold footswitch, click a new soft button that says "take snapshot." Then go and change all the parameters/bypasses/etc you want, then touch and hold another footswitch, and click "take snapshot," then stomp to switch between the two.

 

But I have no idea how much space is available per preset; it almost seems like each snapshot would take nearly as much storage as a full preset itself. So then there's how to "implement it technically" - like maybe instead presets that have all the same blocks would automatically be scenes instead... But then the UI would need to be different. The whole thing sounds like a huge (but kind of fun) challenge for the developers.

[Digital_Igloo]

Here's a secret: Solutions to realize 95+% of legit IdeaScale feature requests were already in our backlog/wish list long before Helix was even announced. The spec and UI of at least half of those were already fully designed.

 

Oftentimes "why did Line 6 do it this way?" can be answered with "so [future feature X] will work without screwing up your workflow." Product/UX designers from other MI companies might be able to look at Helix and say "Ohhhh, I betcha they're working on..."

[mdmayfield]

Here's a secret: Solutions to realize 95+% of legit IdeaScale feature requests were already in our backlog/wish list long before Helix was even announced. The spec and UI of at least half of those were already fully designed.

 

Oftentimes "why did Line 6 do it this way?" can be answered with "so [future feature X] will work without screwing up your workflow." Product/UX designers from other MI companies might be able to look at Helix and say "Ohhhh, I betcha they're working on..."

 

:blink:  and  :D ! I really appreciate the info, and don't worry, I'm already a huge fan of the Helix as is; I won't raise my expectations too high or read too much into this. Of course, I can't speak for the rest of the Internet.  :ph34r:

[Cattlerancher]

One of the ways I found to work around the 8 per, or 3-channel amp stimulation is to stack pedals. Pedals 1 and 7. 7 switches between your clean and crunch "channels", and 1 switches on your lead/solo effects. Both off you have clean, click 7 and you have dirt, click 1 and 7 and you have distorted lead, click 1 and you have your lead boost on either the clean or dirty channel. The buttons are directly above each other on the far side of the board, so it's easy to stomp either one, or both at the same time.

[ricksteruk]

One of the ways I found to work around the 8 per, or 3-channel amp stimulation is to stack pedals. Pedals 1 and 7. 7 switches between your clean and crunch "channels", and 1 switches on your lead/solo effects. Both off you have clean, click 7 and you have dirt, click 1 and 7 and you have distorted lead, click 1 and you have your lead boost on either the clean or dirty channel. The buttons are directly above each other on the far side of the board, so it's easy to stomp either one, or both at the same time.

 

That's quite a neat idea! Does it work ok??  I'll have to try.  

 

I can manage to step on two switches that are next to each other at the same time, but I sometimes mess it up.

Maybe your idea will work better :)