Equalize volume across Tones...

[bloomk]

Is it possible to equalize the volume across tones? IS there a setting where we can set the volume of a tone that WILL NOT effect the tone itself? Really bad when one tone is twice as loud as another.. 

[ric1966]

Can't speak to Firehawk (yet!), but on Amplifi FX100 the volume slider in each patch will do the trick. My most used bank of patches has a spread of volume settings; 70, 50, 57 and 100. I set my lead patches to 100 and run a consistent main volume on the effects unit at about 3:00. It seems to work better with the main volume as hot as it can be without clipping the input of my powered speaker on the lead patch. If I need more volume at my ears, I'll turn up the volume knob on the speaker, not the one on the FX100. As far as equalizing volume across patches, that was done with a lot of trial and error. The more "mid-rangy" tones will cut through a band mix better, so they tend to take less overall volume. I noticed in the app that Firehawk has both a volume and a master slider per patch. Not sure which one will do what I am doing on FX100...

[mcbeddall]

Use the volume parameter

Master alters the tone and the way the amp behaves

 

A quick way of doing it is to press the big volume knob in twice so that the led's light pink to signify amp Volume, adjust that to taste and re save the patch

[bloomk]

i realize i can turn the volume down... but i want to be able to switch tones WITHOUT having to adjust the volume.. and the regular volume o the patch effects the volume of the guitar input (so it effects the tone sound)... i just want a way to equalize the volume of thee patches..

[mcbeddall]

Dude you need to take a look at the instruction manual

 

The big volume knob with the red led's around it is the output volume ok (global setting)

Push it in once and the led's turn white to show that it is now controlling the guitar output relative to mp3 playback (also a global setting)

Push it in a second time and the led's turn pink to show you are controlling the amp block volume parameter (not a global setting)

This is the amp Volume and is saved per patch

So if the patch you have selected at the time is too loud or quiet just double click the big wheel and adjust it to where you want it and save the patch, next time you switch to that patch it will be at the volume you set it.

 

Honestly of all the units I've owned they have all had this problem of having to balance the patch volumes but firehawk has been by far the easiest and quickest to set up , just follow the steps and once you've done it a few times its second nature

[bloomk]

Dude you need to take a look at the instruction manual

 

The big volume knob with the red led's around it is the output volume ok (global setting)

Push it in once and the led's turn white to show that it is now controlling the guitar output relative to mp3 playback (also a global setting)

Push it in a second time and the led's turn pink to show you are controlling the amp block volume parameter (not a global setting)

This is the amp Volume and is saved per patch

So if the patch you have selected at the time is too loud or quiet just double click the big wheel and adjust it to where you want it and save the patch, next time you switch to that patch it will be at the volume you set it.

 

Honestly of all the units I've owned they have all had this problem of having to balance the patch volumes but firehawk has been by far the easiest and quickest to set up , just follow the steps and once you've done it a few times its second nature

 

Dude, you need to read my post... lol 

[bloomk]

i mean what if you had to switch patches mid song? you gonna bend over and adjust the volume? I don't gig but seems like a needed feature.. Just don't want to give my wife a freakin heart attack when i forget that one patch is literally 3 times louder than another... 

[mcbeddall]

OK I'm gonna leave you to it

I've tried to help

Got no thanks

 

But just to be clear using the method I've described I regularly change patches 4 times in one song and use 14 banks in one set without ever having to bend down and adjust the volume. Ever.

[bloomk]

OK I'm gonna leave you to it

I've tried to help

Got no thanks

 

But just to be clear using the method I've described I regularly change patches 4 times in one song and use 14 banks in one set without ever having to bend down and adjust the volume. Ever.

 

 

Wait.. i think might have misread your answer.. so how do i change that pink setting in the app (so i can save the tone to the cloud)? And your saying that setting will not effect the sound of the tone, just the volume?

[bloomk]

i feel sheepish... mcbeddall, sorry man... i totally read your post wrong.. i feel like a d$%^ .. i did some digging using your info as a jump off post and i found this... http://line6.com/support/page/kb/_/effects-controllers/firehawk/different-firehawk-volume-controls-r736

 

buuuuttt... it does not tell you how to get to the "channel volume" from the app... can you? i see the volume of various app blocks but they effect tone and i cannot find the "channel volume" in the app anywhere.. 

 

I hope i did not ruin your willingness to help :) 

[mcbeddall]

Now we're getting there lol

 

Its the volume parameter that you can find in the amp block on the app ( it is designed not to change the tone, only the volume , if it IS changing the tone then maybe that's because you're driving your speaker/headphones harder?)

 

I realised early on that any volume alterations to my tones worked out much better when I made the changes at gigging volume levels (doing it with headphones didn't work out nearly precise enough)

 

So for instance if I have 2 tones that I intend to use in a song I will do the following

 

Select first tone (let's say it's a clean tone for a verse riff)

Play that tone and switch back and forth between that and a tone that I already have at the right volume.

Normally I find clean tones usually need a boost using the compressor to keep up with my dirty tones so I'll boost the output of the compressor by a few dB and try and be conservative with the amp Volume parameter, I aim to have the amp Volume set between 50-70% so that I have room for manoeuvre later on.

Once the volume for the clean patch is set I hold the patch footswitch down for 2 seconds until the display flashes showing the patch location, then I select where I want the patch and hold the footswitch down for 2 seconds again, and that is then saved.

 

Then I select the second patch and see how it feels for volume , if it needs to go up I double tap the volume wheel and the led's turn pink, I turn the volume wheel up to make it louder and save by pressing on the footswitch for 2 seconds as before.

 

For me the beauty of doing it this way is that I don't need to get tied down with the app while at rehearsal and for most of the procedure I can keep 2 hands on the guitar, I know it sounds long winded when written down but in practice it takes me 30 seconds maximum to dial in the exact volume I need and get it saved.

 

Another volume related issue I experienced which might save you some time is that I never took any notice of where the white led's were set on the master volume wheel, and I found that it can alter tone dramatically , so now whether I'm creating tones or rehearsing I always try and make sure it's set to halfway, I know this setting is supposed to balance the guitar with mp3 playback and shouldn't affect tone but I found that if it was pushed too far past halfway it made my tones sound cold and harsh.

[bloomk]

cool... thanks man!

[suedehead99]

Cool walkthrough of the process, McB. Thanks.

[ric1966]

Mcb, you mentioned that "Master alters the tone and the way the amp behaves" in an earlier post. I noticed the default settings for the HD amp blocks tend to have master cranked up for the cleans and set around halfway for the overdrives. Is this essentially an attempt to control the amount of output tube distortion in the models? It seems the higher settings deliver more headroom and less output section distortion.

[mcbeddall]

I've found backing the master off usually cleans the amp up a bit ( so the opposite to what you're saying I think ) but the amp seems to lose a bit of liveliness also , for me it's a real balancing act with the master parameter on each individual patch, sometimes it doesn't seem to do much and other times the slightest adjustment can really help find a sweetspot.

Same with presence, that can also add a lot of feel and liveliness to the amp but it has to be balanced by turning the treble down otherwise it sounds too harsh

[ric1966]

McB, I did some reading and experimentation. You are right, lowering the master level does reduce the overall amount of distortion. Interestingly, it does not affect my perception of volume much. When master is cranked up, it gives you a nice "tube bloom" with rich harmonics, just like a cranked up tube amp. It also makes changes in the sag, bias and bias excursion more noticeable. I needed to back off on the drive when master was set high, or there was actually too much distortion for my taste on my Brit J-800 patch. I found that drive at 72, master at 80, sag at 60, hum at 50, bias at 60 and bias excursion at 40 was a great approximation of the JCM-800 I used to own, to the best of my recollection! Best way to explain it is that higher drive and lower master give you more pre-amp distortion (like an overdrive pedal in front a low gain amp) and lower drive and higher master give you more power amp distortion. The latter is what most discerning players would consider a classic tube amp sound. I'm really impressed that the Firehawk can supply this sound at any volume!

[mcbeddall]

Yeah I think you pretty much nailed your explanation , much clearer and more detailed than I could have managed

[godsaxe]

The challenge here is that when you adjust for the volume you would have to save to an available user bank patch.  There are only 3 User banks or 12 patch locations which is NOT a lot.

There are 7 PERFORMANCE banks that are supposed to be directly playable on "Ready to Rock Mode" but the volumes between rhythm and clean tones are so far apart. Solo tone volumes are also so high that you cannot just step on the patch switch and immediately play.  You would have to either play with the volume pedal or your guitar volume knob to hit the right volume level/amount from the previous patch of the same bank.

Can Line6 techs at least evaluate the volume for Performance bank patches. If the volumes can be normalized/equalized for "Ready to Rock" performance mode, we can free up the user banks for real user configured tones.

[mcbeddall]

You can save patches to any bank

Doesn't have to be a user bank

 

Volume levels are almost impossible to get right with pre programming , everything effects the volume , different guitars , cables , speakers, listening environment, all affect the tone and volume massively, which is why you will find some patches sound horrible/loud/quiet etc.

 

Really the best way to get the most from the firehawk is to program all your own patches from scratch (do this at gig volume for best results)

 

When I did this the firehawk became an awesome tool for me

 

By making do with the presets you're really not getting the most from it

[camiller0122]

This method works when utilizing the full amp model mode, i.e. the output mode switch set to 'line', rather than to 'amp'. In this mode, the full amp and cabinet modeling sounds are what come through. This is perfect for running direct to board, while using no physical amp and cabinet.

 

However, what about when you set the output mode switch to 'amp', and you are running the board into a Marshall half-stack? Does this method of double-tapping the master volume knob and setting the patch volumes as per the pink LEDs have the same impact on each patch volume?

 

Thanks.

curt

[mcbeddall]

The pink led's control the amp sims volume, so if your using the amp block then yes it still works, if your amp block is set to " no amp" then it won't work , but I've never actually tried it because I run into a PA speaker

[craigmac464]

On 6/20/2016 at 6:26 AM, mcbeddall said:

Dude you need to take a look at the instruction manual

 

The big volume knob with the red led's around it is the output volume ok (global setting)

Push it in once and the led's turn white to show that it is now controlling the guitar output relative to mp3 playback (also a global setting)

Push it in a second time and the led's turn pink to show you are controlling the amp block volume parameter (not a global setting)

This is the amp Volume and is saved per patch

So if the patch you have selected at the time is too loud or quiet just double click the big wheel and adjust it to where you want it and save the patch, next time you switch to that patch it will be at the volume you set it.

 

Honestly of all the units I've owned they have all had this problem of having to balance the patch volumes but firehawk has been by far the easiest and quickest to set up , just follow the steps and once you've done it a few times its second nature

I know I’m late but this seems to be exactly what I was looking for. To set up a bank for a gig with equalized base volume so I can switch patches between songs and know it’s the right volume already. Thanks for this !

[harbingerofdoomo]

On 6/20/2016 at 5:53 PM, mcbeddall said:

Now we're getting there lol

 

Its the volume parameter that you can find in the amp block on the app ( it is designed not to change the tone, only the volume , if it IS changing the tone then maybe that's because you're driving your speaker/headphones harder?)

 

I realised early on that any volume alterations to my tones worked out much better when I made the changes at gigging volume levels (doing it with headphones didn't work out nearly precise enough)

 

So for instance if I have 2 tones that I intend to use in a song I will do the following

 

Select first tone (let's say it's a clean tone for a verse riff)

Play that tone and switch back and forth between that and a tone that I already have at the right volume.

Normally I find clean tones usually need a boost using the compressor to keep up with my dirty tones so I'll boost the output of the compressor by a few dB and try and be conservative with the amp Volume parameter, I aim to have the amp Volume set between 50-70% so that I have room for manoeuvre later on.

Once the volume for the clean patch is set I hold the patch footswitch down for 2 seconds until the display flashes showing the patch location, then I select where I want the patch and hold the footswitch down for 2 seconds again, and that is then saved.

 

Then I select the second patch and see how it feels for volume , if it needs to go up I double tap the volume wheel and the led's turn pink, I turn the volume wheel up to make it louder and save by pressing on the footswitch for 2 seconds as before.

 

For me the beauty of doing it this way is that I don't need to get tied down with the app while at rehearsal and for most of the procedure I can keep 2 hands on the guitar, I know it sounds long winded when written down but in practice it takes me 30 seconds maximum to dial in the exact volume I need and get it saved.

 

Another volume related issue I experienced which might save you some time is that I never took any notice of where the white led's were set on the master volume wheel, and I found that it can alter tone dramatically , so now whether I'm creating tones or rehearsing I always try and make sure it's set to halfway, I know this setting is supposed to balance the guitar with mp3 playback and shouldn't affect tone but I found that if it was pushed too far past halfway it made my tones sound cold and harsh.

This much later down the road and this is still good info. 
The compression was the last part of this that got me where I needed to be on this... dealing withe the level differences between clean tones and distortion tones was killing me with the drastic differences.