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willsmythe37

Firmware Upgrade?

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Hello all,

I don't suppose anyone has caught word of the next firmware release date?

Is it to be a patch to fix bug issues and the like. Or is there rumors of additional features, amps, effects etc?

Considering the huge engagement with ideascale, I'm sure there are an endless list of potential updates that Line 6 want to bring to the table.

What's number one of your list of potential updates?

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From everything I've heard here on this and other forums, Scenes seem to be the top update request.  I'm personally skeptical whether this will be in the next FW update given the critical bug fixes that need to be addressed like the Tempo problem and some various instability issues that can only be fixed by power-cycling the Helix.  It's possible we might see a new amp or two and maybe a couple of additional FX.

 

One thing for sure, the sooner it comes out the less it will have in it.

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Certainly hoping for scenes in the next update, they can't come soon enough for me. It sounds like it's high up on L6's to-do list, but they're not saying if or when it'll be released . . . 

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I don't expect any big update until the middle of June. Not that I know something about it but if they integrate some major features it takes time and for me middle of June would be the earliest guess.

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I don't expect any big update until the middle of June. Not that I know something about it but if they integrate some major features it takes time and for me middle of June would be the earliest guess.

 

Quit putting suggestions in people's minds that it's not the middle of June yet! :lol: :lol: Damnit, you got my hopes up that I had a bunch of extra time all of a sudden until I realized I don't anymore.

 

Oh yeah, don't forget that tomorrow is Thursday. Thursday.

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Quit putting suggestions in people's minds that it's not the middle of June yet! :lol: :lol: Damnit, you got my hopes up that I had a bunch of extra time all of a sudden until I realized I don't anymore.

 

Oh yeah, don't forget that tomorrow is Thursday. Thursday.

Actually I wanted to write July - not June, sorry ;-)

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From everything I've heard here on this and other forums, Scenes seem to be the top update request.  I'm personally skeptical whether this will be in the next FW update given the critical bug fixes that need to be addressed like the Tempo problem and some various instability issues that can only be fixed by power-cycling the Helix.  It's possible we might see a new amp or two and maybe a couple of additional FX.

 

One thing for sure, the sooner it comes out the less it will have in it.

 

I, for one, would be just fine with a release with NO new stuff and just a fix for the tempo issue! :) 

 

Of course, new stuff would be awesome too! ;)

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I'd be happy with sound tail spill over when switching between patches.

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I, for one, would be just fine with a release with NO new stuff and just a fix for the tempo issue! :)

 

Of course, new stuff would be awesome too! ;)

 

The tap tempo issue should have been fixed immediately.  After this substantial a wait I suspect there is some great new stuff headed our way.

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I'd be happy with sound tail spill over when switching between patches.

 

Does anyone do this?  AxFx, Kemper, etc??

 

It seems to me the very definition of a patch change inhibits this sort of thing.  A patch change clears everything from the signal chain to load up new things.  You can't carry a tail over that transition if the object producing the tail is unloaded from memory.

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I was hoping when the editor came out we would have "tone match" because everyone (almost) said it was going to be... so you guys need to stop getting my hopes up...LOL :lol:

 

I get the feeling it will be sooner than you think..... :D

 

maybe tomorrow  :P

 

OK I'll stop now... are we there yet?!?!?!?! :o

 

I hope you all get what you want this go round. I will be happy with what ever it is. I just can't believe that I just found out :o about the level control in the output selection thingy at the end of each path, how did I miss that :(  so now I don't have to adjust the amp volumes to balance the presets... B)

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Does anyone do this?  AxFx, Kemper, etc??

 

It seems to me the very definition of a patch change inhibits this sort of thing.  A patch change clears everything from the signal chain to load up new things.  You can't carry a tail over that transition if the object producing the tail is unloaded from memory.

 

I don't believe any others do. I recall a discussion about this from a while ago (on the gear page I think...) and it was mentioned that it almost requires a separate processor chip to handle the spill-over. I think where others MAY have the advantage is in patch change times but, I don't have any experience with Kemper/AxeFX so I don't really know for sure.

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I don't believe any others do. I recall a discussion about this from a while ago (on the gear page I think...) and it was mentioned that it almost requires a separate processor chip to handle the spill-over. I think where others MAY have the advantage is in patch change times but, I don't have any experience with Kemper/AxeFX so I don't really know for sure.

 

I can see how this could be done in the case of scenes because you're not really re-initializing the signal chain or releasing the assets.  But a patch is really starting all over with a fresh signal chain so the assets have to be released.  I suppose a separate processor might work as a way of handing things off while the new patch loads, but that's certainly not a player in a FW updgrate....now you're talking hardware.

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I can see how this could be done in the case of scenes because you're not really re-initializing the signal chain or releasing the assets.  But a patch is really starting all over with a fresh signal chain so the assets have to be released.  I suppose a separate processor might work as a way of handing things off while the new patch loads, but that's certainly not a player in a FW updgrate....now you're talking hardware.

 

Oh, for sure! I should have included that it's not likely we'll see spill-over between patches because it'd most likely require a hardware change to facilitate. I also agree that "scenes" functionality would probably cover this for most users. I'd LOVE to get that!!

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I don't believe any others do. I recall a discussion about this from a while ago (on the gear page I think...) and it was mentioned that it almost requires a separate processor chip to handle the spill-over. I think where others MAY have the advantage is in patch change times but, I don't have any experience with Kemper/AxeFX so I don't really know for sure.

My old Late 90's GSP 2101 does, does a good job of it too!  Want to buy it? Lol

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My old Late 90's GSP 2101 does, does a good job of it too!  Want to buy it? Lol

 

I think the 2101 is one of the only units that does it. I also believe that was the device sited in that convo I mentioned that uses a separate processor to handle the spill over.

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There's still such a gap in amps and effects as compared to AX8 - which by the way has been delivered in huge quantities recently - that IMO Line6 should better deliver new stuffs quickly.

Helix is a good product but waiting more than one month just to have bugs fixed it's unacceptable.

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Oh, for sure! I should have included that it's not likely we'll see spill-over between patches because it'd most likely require a hardware change to facilitate. I also agree that "scenes" functionality would probably cover this for most users. I'd LOVE to get that!!

@theKennyG Can you please explain the scene mode/function as I've never used M13 that has that? Thx.

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@theKennyG Can you please explain the scene mode/function as I've never used M13 that has that? Thx.

 

There are no "secens" on the Helix. It's a feature in the AxeFX units. Basically, each "scene" is just a collection of settings values for all of the blocks in a patch. Changing scenes just instantly changes all of the settings (including a blocks bypass state) in the patch. Since this doesn't actually change patches it allows for delays and verbs to spillover when you change scenes.

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There are no "secens" on the Helix. It's a feature in the AxeFX units. Basically, each "scene" is just a collection of settings values for all of the blocks in a patch. Changing scenes just instantly changes all of the settings (including a blocks bypass state) in the patch. Since this doesn't actually change patches it allows for delays and verbs to spillover when you change scenes.

Thx @theKennyG

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There's still such a gap in amps and effects as compared to AX8 - which by the way has been delivered in huge quantities recently - that IMO Line6 should better deliver new stuffs quickly.

Helix is a good product but waiting more than one month just to have bugs fixed it's unacceptable.

 

Sheesh...

 

Line 6 has 91 current products to support, Fractal has 8.  Stop whining and be patient.  The world doesn't revolve around you and your personal needs.

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There's still such a gap in amps and effects as compared to AX8 - which by the way has been delivered in huge quantities recently - that IMO Line6 should better deliver new stuffs quickly.

Helix is a good product but waiting more than one month just to have bugs fixed it's unacceptable.

 

 

Sheesh...

 

Line 6 has 91 current products to support, Fractal has 8.  Stop whining and be patient.  The world doesn't revolve around you and your personal needs.

 

I try to veer away from terms like "unacceptable" because I don't know exactly what caused the delay on the fix to tap tempo. I do believe an explanation as to the delay from L6 would have been reassuring as it is disturbing to see the fix to tap tempo, which many consider to be an important core feature, take so long. I also think accusing someone else of "whining" is likely to lead to a flame war in this topic which I would prefer not to see.

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Well, the delay could be me since I may have recently confirmed the root symptomatic cause of the amp controls deviating upon preset selection from one to the other.  I'm confident that once the recent bugs are addressed the solution will be objectively tested in house before final release.  This what I would prefer since releasing a clean upgrade would be a better solution then fast delivery and some bugs left unaddressed so to speak.  On the other hand it would be nice to see it soon.  Boy am I conflicted ... or is that schizophrenic? :blink: :blink: :blink: :rolleyes:

 

Dennis

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There's still such a gap in amps and effects as compared to AX8 - which by the way has been delivered in huge quantities recently - that I4q1MO Line6 should better deliver new stuffs quickly.

Helix is a good product but waiting more than one month just to have bugs fixed it's unacceptable.

I am honestly in this crowd.  I bought the helix more as a pedal board replacement than an amp modeller (I use the models in studio and late at night but never live).  The rate they are releasing new effects at is quite slow.  i assumed we would at least have a few filters in the FM4 vein by now.  Maybe a couple new reverbs or delays.  Now I am starting to think it's gonna be a while before anything new is release beyond bug fixes.  I'm nearly at the point that I am gonna order a FX8.  I know it has a third quarter delivery, which gives me time to figure out if the helix is going to work for me or if it goes in the sell pile.

 

On the support question, I expected a $2100 (I live in Canada) unit from a company the size of Line 6 to have the same level of support as the fractal stuff.  At that price point i could buy a unit that gets frequent updates.  Line 6 has few (if any other) products in this category/at this price point and are up against pretty stiff competition right now, slow updates put them further and further behind and has cause me to wonder if I spent my money stupidly.  Maybe that is expecting a lot but for the price of a macbook pro I kinda thought we would get weekly to biweekly software updates and maybe a couple new effects every month or two. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the helix and the easy of use and editing but I was hoping for more frequent effect updates.  We all use these units for different things, I mostly use it to get rid of my excessive amount of stompboxes.  I am just questioning if I am getting my money's worth out of it or if i should have went with one of the other options on the market considering what I use it for.  I think the price point made me think things would be different.

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There's still such a gap in amps and effects as compared to AX8 - which by the way has been delivered in huge quantities recently - that IMO Line6 should better deliver new stuffs quickly.

Helix is a good product but waiting more than one month just to have bugs fixed it's unacceptable.

I'd still go quality over quantity. If you honest with yourself how many of the amps you would use? For me it's not more then 5-6 amps and I stick with them.

I rather like to have 5-6 amps in top quality as 30 in a OK quality - not saying amps in AX8 are bad, I haven't tried it but just my overall opinion.

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I'd still go quality over quantity. If you honest with yourself how many of the amps you would use? For me it's not more then 5-6 amps and I stick with them.

I rather like to have 5-6 amps in top quality as 30 in a OK quality - not saying amps in AX8 are bad, I haven't tried it but just my overall opinion.

 

I prefer quality and quantity but will happily settle for a compromise of the two erring as you say on the side of quality. IMHO the Helix has room to grow yet in both departments.  It arguably has the best UI and physical design of anything on the market by a country mile and, especially given the price they managed to come in at, is made from extremely high quality components.  When and if a few critical areas in the software catch up (bug fixes, stability, more amps and effects, scenes, spillover) the Helix fulfills its promise and then some. The Helix is already my favorite processor and guitar accessory ever by far and the only thing that has ever inspired me to make a (for me) excessive number of posts in a forum. Yep the Helix and those mysterious UFO sightings in New Mexico take up most of my posting time (just kidding about those UFOs, people get a grip, no disrespect intended to the true believers out there, the Helix generally has more crazy colored lights anyway, that might explain the whole UFO thing, maybe L6 has been working on it longer than the five years they 'fess up to, they are headquartered suspiciously close to Roswell).  :D

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I don't know. I feel like not much is happening in terms of firmware updates but checking the history quickly reveals it's been only a little over a month since the last update which together with the non-beta Helix editor completed a feature requested by the users (the editor...) and also delivered many important bugfixes. So objectively I'd say Line 6 are doing pretty good in terms of updates.

 

But yes, I want more - new features, new toys... :D

 

If they deliver the long-ago-hinted-at "stupid fun" features in July together with a couple of new toys (and fix the tempo led bug) and it's really stupid fun, I'll probably say they're doing fantastic. Also from the notes about the development ("stupid fun" code updates had to be put aside for a while until the editor-supporting firmware was complete, then the new features where merged in again...) I feel that after this big chunk of work is released new toys might come a bit faster...

 

But just to be safe, I don't know anything, pure speculation here... :)

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Given some of the recent history where FW updates have introduced NEW bugs, some of which, such as tempo problems, have been very problematic for a lot of people, I'd hedge on the side of quality over quantity in their future releases.  Completeness over speed so to speak.

 

The reality is, my Helix is a true production piece of equipment I really can't afford to lose.  I depend on it weekly and it's doing a wonderful job.  Things that come along now will simply be "extra" because all the holes are filled in what I need it to do as it sits.  In other words, it's not a toy for me to play with new features.  So new features take a back seat to keeping everything stable and solid.

 

That being said things like tempo fixes will make things easier for me as likely will scenes.  But in the real world of every week use, I'm doing fine and I'm happy to be patient if it ensures they get it right and keep everything solid and dependable.

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Honestly, I'm finding the lack of better control options to be a real kill joy for me. I really enjoy the sounds the Helix can produce, but I spend most of my time working out how I'll workaround the lack of flexibility in footswitch assignments. That's not to say there aren't ways to get the sounds I want, but it means that rather than spending my time making a really killer tone I'm working out how I can compromise until I get something usable. 

 

I really think that more powerful controls for switching FX in and out will make a world of difference to me, but until that time I'm finding the Helix a bit disappointing.

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I try to veer away from terms like "unacceptable" because I don't know exactly what caused the delay on the fix to tap tempo. I do believe an explanation as to the delay from L6 would have been reassuring as it is disturbing to see the fix to tap tempo, which many consider to be an important core feature, take so long. I also think accusing someone else of "whining" is likely to lead to a flame war in this topic which I would prefer not to see.

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You're wright. I'm not using "unacceptable" any more.

My point is that I love line6 products. I don't even remember when I bought the first one.

I have both Helix and AX8. I believe Helix could become a much better product than AX8, but now that's not the case. Line6 has huge resources as compared to Fractal. It doesn't make sense IMO not to win the game when you have better chance to do it.

I'm not willing to blame anybody

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As to why Line 6 hasn't issued specific patches or hotfixes for certain bugs, I believe it simply comes down to a matter of not spreading limited resources too thin. It will become apparent what is all meant by that in the future, but trust me, they're all working very hard at making the Helix a more killer product than it already is.

 

Another thing I'd say is that I think people tend to overestimate Line 6's size as a company. They're not tiny, but they aren't huge, either. For the number of products they currently make and support, well, lets just say they all have a lot on their plates.

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I would be super happy to just get an idea of when they are planning a FW release. I don't get this "not talking because of this or that" What I know it's been 4 months since 1.06.5. and yes we've got an editor, i know. If you'de tell me in 3 months you'll get version 2.0 with a new pdf manual improved and updated I'd stop expecting it each day and go on living... my little OCD side.

 

Oh well....

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I would be super happy to just get an idea of when they are planning a FW release. I don't get this "not talking because of this or that" What I know it's been 4 months since 1.06.5. and yes we've got an editor, i know. If you'de tell me in 3 months you'll get version 2.0 with a new pdf manual improved and updated I'd stop expecting it each day and go on living... my little OCD side.

 

Oh well....

 

You don't want them to make promises they can't keep, and you don't want them to rush it.

 

Anybody who says they know when it's coming doesn't know or is violating an NDA.

 

Anybody who knows something is under NDA or has the good sense (or job responsibility) to keep their mouths shut.

 

They have said they want to have the next FW update out by summer NAMM.

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Given some of the recent history where FW updates have introduced NEW bugs, some of which, such as tempo problems, have been very problematic for a lot of people, I'd hedge on the side of quality over quantity in their future releases.  Completeness over speed so to speak.

 

The reality is, my Helix is a true production piece of equipment I really can't afford to lose.  I depend on it weekly and it's doing a wonderful job.  Things that come along now will simply be "extra" because all the holes are filled in what I need it to do as it sits.  In other words, it's not a toy for me to play with new features.  So new features take a back seat to keeping everything stable and solid.

 

That being said things like tempo fixes will make things easier for me as likely will scenes.  But in the real world of every week use, I'm doing fine and I'm happy to be patient if it ensures they get it right and keep everything solid and dependable.

 

+1 to stability!  Like a lot of other players on this forum I use the Helix for live performance and stability is my foremost concern, not that I don't still look forward to seeing some other critical features added that enhance my performance and enjoyment of the device.

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+1 to stability!  Like a lot of other players on this forum I use the Helix for live performance and stability is my foremost concern, not that I don't still look forward to seeing some other critical features added that enhance my performance and enjoyment of the device.

 

+1,000,000.

 

Of course, as a beta tester, I agreed to a certain amount of instability 6 months ago, but... I will offer this. Even though I am often running a beta FW, I haven't had to roll back to a previous version for my church's weekend services at all. So even the stuff that is buggier than y'all see is stable enough for my "real-job work".

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I've been using beta firmware (and even firmware that's not yet beta) on my Helix for the past three or four months, and haven't had a crash or really any substantial showstopper type bugs. That includes using it for gigging my last dozen shows or so. So it does seem to me that it's pretty stable at this point.

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You don't want them to make promises they can't keep, and you don't want them to rush it.

 

Anybody who says they know when it's coming doesn't know or is violating an NDA.

 

Anybody who knows something is under NDA or has the good sense (or job responsibility) to keep their mouths shut.

 

They have said they want to have the next FW update out by summer NAMM.

Oups! you're in trouble! I think I was the first to feel the water for Summer NAMM and DI replied to the post but never actually infer anything (as usual).

 

But my point is when they decide internally that a feature is doable and they have a beta going. It would be great, I think, to let the fans know about what's coming next. If Line 6 has no clue as to when the next release should it the street that make me worry even more. 

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