Please ensure Javascript is enabled for purposes of website accessibility Jump to content

Helix questions from a firehawk owner.


bloomk
 Share

Recommended Posts

I currently have a fire hawk and love it.. BUT i would like better sound. I also hate the bluetooth connectivity issue i fight with every day when i practice... Doesn't the helix have a desktop app that does the same thing as the iPhone app for the firehawk? If so is there screen shots  or other info on this software anywhere? I practice right in front of my studio computer anyway so having a reliable directly wire connected app would make me pull the trigger on the helix...

 

Also, any other gotchas or improvements over the firehawk that i can expect?

 

Any pro/cons comparison of fire hawk vs helix that isn't marketing hype?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I owned a Firehawk and upgraded to the Helix. I kept saying, man, this is great, but I wish it had X, or I could do Y, etc. And the Helix did everything on that list, so I went for it. I'm happy I did.

 

There is a desktop app. I haven't bothered to use it yet. You can do everything from the on-board controls easily enough that I don't personally see the need to use it in creating or editing patches.

 

Cons vs Firehawk: price. That's it, in my opinion. No marketing hype, the Helix is just better in every way, in my opinion. Maybe there are some old fx or models that haven't gotten into the Helix (yet)? I'm not 100% on this, but I don't think so. The list of models and effects seems bigger, at least. I sold my Firehawk to put the money toward the Helix though, so I never compared side by side.

 

Pros: Um...this list would be big. The most important items, for me, were the following:

1. Far far far less limited in terms of how much you can add to the signal chain. Firehawk locks you into several things. 1 block for amp, 1 for cab, 1 is always reverb, 1 for the looper, and then 3 (or 4?) blocks where you get to pick. The Helix is wide open for customizing what you put in there. You'll hit a DSP ceiling at some point, but not for a while, especially if you use the 2 processors wisely.

 

2. Far more flexibile in terms of routing. You can order the blocks however you want. You can put separate signal paths, so you have a distorted and dry signal in parallel, you can...well, the options are practically limitless.

 

3. There's more bass-specific stuff, though still not enough in my (biased) opinion (as a bass player). IIRC, Firehawk had exactly zero (0) bass-specific blocks. It's been a while, I could be wrong, or perhaps they added some.

 

4. UI - you can do everything directly on the Helix that you needed the app for with the Firehawk.

 

5. Scribble strips - makes it easy to see with a quick glance what you put where.

 

Eh, there's more, but you get the idea. It's a big improvement. It's a big price tag. You just have to decide if the big improvement is worth the big price tag.

 

Overall, I would say the features are vastly improved. The sound quality of the pedal doesn't seem to be a huge jump up (to me, IMHO, YMMV, etc).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am fairly happy with the firehawk. Couple things that really bother me about fire hawk i wonder are solved by the helix:

 

1) with Firehawk there seems to be no way to volume match the patches/tones. I wind up with on tone that is perfect but loud, and another that is also perfect (for a different purpose) and is quite.. so when i switch i either blow my ears out or can't hear it... and fiddling with the volume knob for every tone/song is just annoying... So with the helix, can you put 2 volumes on a tone? one on the front of the signal chain, and one at the very end? So the first can be connected to the pedal, and the final one is used to volume match wth the other tones? If so, it will solve my problem with the firehawk.. 

 

2) Bluetooth connectivity on the fire hawk (and even the amplifi) is just a royal pain... I'd rather have a wired connection that "just works"... I hate having to spend 30+ minutes a week trying to get my iPhone app to see the fire hawk (that iPhone shows is connected).. It's buggy and Line 6 seems to have no solution.. so, even though it was a cool idea, if it doesn't work well, it's a bad idea.. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am fairly happy with the firehawk. Couple things that really bother me about fire hawk i wonder are solved by the helix:

 

1) with Firehawk there seems to be no way to volume match the patches/tones. I wind up with on tone that is perfect but loud, and another that is also perfect (for a different purpose) and is quite.. so when i switch i either blow my ears out or can't hear it... and fiddling with the volume knob for every tone/song is just annoying... So with the helix, can you put 2 volumes on a tone? one on the front of the signal chain, and one at the very end? So the first can be connected to the pedal, and the final one is used to volume match wth the other tones? If so, it will solve my problem with the firehawk.. 

 

2) Bluetooth connectivity on the fire hawk (and even the amplifi) is just a royal pain... I'd rather have a wired connection that "just works"... I hate having to spend 30+ minutes a week trying to get my iPhone app to see the fire hawk (that iPhone shows is connected).. It's buggy and Line 6 seems to have no solution.. so, even though it was a cool idea, if it doesn't work well, it's a bad idea.. 

 

I've never owned a Firehawk, but having come from the HD500X world, it suffered in many of the same ways as the Firehawk in terms of volume control.  I will say the models and fx on the Helix seem to be much better out of the box for being close to the same volume, but even if they're off you have NUMEROUS ways of adjusting the volume within a patch.  Of course the amps have their volume levels, but the cabinets all have volume levels as well, not to mention the output levels on each of the signal chains.  So if you can't match up volume levels between patches it's certainly not because there's not enough ways available to do it.  When I play I set my Helix master volume at one level and play all night switching patches...it's all the same volume.

 

As far as Bluetooth...there's a thing that users requested over and over and honestly it makes no sense at all.  Line 6 responded to those requests on some of their products, but it's a case of "be careful what you ask for...you just might get it".  Helix, fortunately didn't get infected with that disaster and everything is done hardwired.  It goes to show you that there's a BIG difference between a "cool" idea and an actual "useful" idea.

 

By the way, it's not a fault of Line 6 that bluetooth is buggy.  It's buggy on virtually every device I've tried to use it on.  It's a very poorly designed protocol and connection scheme.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i guess where line 6 messed up is that they made bluetooth the "main" connection protocol.. if there was a cord that connected it and i had the "option" of bluetooth, then sure.. but if your having bluetooth issues for whatever reason... your up lollipop creek... no paddle.. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i guess where line 6 messed up is that they made bluetooth the "main" connection protocol.. 

 

OK - so they messed up by giving users exactly what they asked for..........????

 

... and had they not done so, by now we would hearing loud screaming from the same requesters asking "Why has Line 6 not yet given us a Bluetooth-only device, compatible with my mobile iOS/Android device, and untethered?"

 

As stated earlier, be careful what you ask for. Bluetooth is a very unreliable connectivity protocol. Its problems are not the fault of Line 6.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok... so what about the sound? is the helix really superior in sound? i mean if you rated them both on a scale of 1-10 where would they match up?

 

I'm not sure you can compare the two this way.  Obviously the Helix has double the modeling processing power of the Firehawk, and the HX modeling is based on those extra capabilities and is far superior to the HD modeling used on the Firehawk.  So on an amp by amp or effect by effect basis the Helix will be far superior in terms of authenticity, clarity, definition, responsiveness, articulation, etc.  But that doesn't count in all the advanced signal chain routing, variety of cabs, IR's, mic's, and their placements on the Helix which are HUGE features for what you can do and the sounds you can get out of it that are simply not even possible on the Firehawk.

 

Bear in mind, however, that ultimately the sound you get is dependent upon the output device you're using.  If you want to hear the best of what the Helix can do you need a good speaker setup.

 

Basically you're asking how well a Dodge Dart compares to a Mercedes.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK - so they messed up by giving users exactly what they asked for..........????

 

... and had they not done so, by now we would hearing loud screaming from the same requesters asking "Why has Line 6 not yet given us a Bluetooth-only device, compatible with my mobile iOS/Android device, and untethered?"

 

As stated earlier, be careful what you ask for. Bluetooth is a very unreliable connectivity protocol. Its problems are not the fault of Line 6.

I dunno...I've never used Firehawk, and anything wireless can potentially have connectivity issues, but I've never really had problems with dropped Bluetooth connections, or devices not "seeing" each other. From desktop speakers, to a tiny little Bluetooth adapter with 1/8" stereo plug about the size of a thumb drive (very handy...essentially turns anything with an AUX in into a Bluetooth-capable device), to Nolan motorcycle helmets with Bluetooth com-systems. Turn it on, connect, and you're off to the races. I've connected stuff in different rooms and between floors just to see if it would work...am I just lucky?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Two days ago a good friend bought a new iPhone because her Samsung Android device would not work properly with her car's Bluetooth phone system. The iPhone works perfectly. Is that the car manufacturer's fault? Samsung's? Was she just unlucky? I don't know. All I know is that Bluetooth is a flaky system from device to device. Some pairings work perfectly, some intermittently, and some not at all - but they are all Bluetooth devices.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am fairly happy with the firehawk. Couple things that really bother me about fire hawk i wonder are solved by the helix:

 

1) with Firehawk there seems to be no way to volume match the patches/tones. I wind up with on tone that is perfect but loud, and another that is also perfect (for a different purpose) and is quite.. so when i switch i either blow my ears out or can't hear it... and fiddling with the volume knob for every tone/song is just annoying... So with the helix, can you put 2 volumes on a tone? one on the front of the signal chain, and one at the very end? So the first can be connected to the pedal, and the final one is used to volume match wth the other tones? If so, it will solve my problem with the firehawk.. 

 

You can volume balance things on the Firehawk. It is just time consuming to adjust the patches volume, resave it to your tones, and/or resave it to your hardware, then check it vs other tones and repeat.  The "channel volume" on the amp is purely level and shouldn't affect the saturation or tone of the patch. So get your tone where you want it and adjust that last to level it out with other tones.

 

That being said the Helix is much faster to get around on and it does offer much higher quality sounds. It also give you many more ways to controll every aspect ofthe tone includinglevels.  (Its price tag is 3x what a Fiewhawk FX sells for, so if it was't a better sounding, more impressive unit, something would be wrong)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dunno...I've never used Firehawk, and anything wireless can potentially have connectivity issues, but I've never really had problems with dropped Bluetooth connections, or devices not "seeing" each other. From desktop speakers, to a tiny little Bluetooth adapter with 1/8" stereo plug about the size of a thumb drive (very handy...essentially turns anything with an AUX in into a Bluetooth-capable device), to Nolan motorcycle helmets with Bluetooth com-systems. Turn it on, connect, and you're off to the races. I've connected stuff in different rooms and between floors just to see if it would work...am I just lucky?

 

 

Two days ago a good friend bought a new iPhone because her Samsung Android device would not work properly with her car's Bluetooth phone system. The iPhone works perfectly. Is that the car manufacturer's fault? Samsung's? Was she just unlucky? I don't know. All I know is that Bluetooth is a flaky system from device to device. Some pairings work perfectly, some intermittently, and some not at all - but they are all Bluetooth devices.

It isn't really the fault of Bluetooth. It's just a generic communication protocol. You'll have issues sometimes when dealing with different manufacturers, particularly mixing and matching, but that's true of any generic messaging. Some web sites will load fine in IE but not Chrome, or vice versa. Some USB devices will have issues on certain OSs. Have you never struggled to get an audio interface to behave properly on your computer? (If not, you're lucky.) Oddly enough, I've seen countless people struggle with that, but I've never seen USB blamed for it. Bluetooth is the same basic concept, it's just wireless.

 

Honestly, given how much noise there is on the 2.4GHz band these days, it's a miracle Bluetooth works as well as it does.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My Bluetooth from my iPad to the Firehawk 1500 works well so far, and without issues. As always YMMV, but with the technology today, we should be there for excellent connections by now. If however you have heavy noise issues like shorting fluorescent ballasts overhead, or noise from crappy Transformers in the alley, or a host of other interference that could degrade the BT connection like weak batteries, tornados, or a flood, or locusts, well then all bets are off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

.... anyway so having a reliable directly wire connected app would make me pull the trigger on the helix...

 

 

I'm running an iMac w/ El Capitan and I have some problems connecting and staying connected to the Helix editor over a USB cable.  Somedays its okay and others very frustrating.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Former AX8, Kemper and current Helix owner.  All three before mentioned are awesome.  The Helix to me is King for it's versatility such as recording interface, Headphone Jack, ease of use and mic input and myriad of connecting options.  Some of the tones in AX and Kemper are better, but in balance Helix wins hands down.  That all being said, owned the Firehawk for 1 week.  NOT EVEN close to the other 3.  Not even close.  If you got the coin, the other 3 are worth the extra money. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm running an iMac w/ El Capitan and I have some problems connecting and staying connected to the Helix editor over a USB cable.  Somedays its okay and others very frustrating.  

 

 

What issues exactly does it have?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Staying connected.  Today it's working well, I've only had to restart the Helix editor once, and it's still connected.  Other days it takes 4 or 5 tries just to get it connected...Start the app, close the app, repeat, finally reboot the iMac, try again.  That's 5-10 minutes.    If the computer falls asleep, most likely will have to reboot the Helix app.

 

I've tried three different cables. No difference.  

 

Against Line6's advice, I actually have better luck plugging into a USB hub rather than straight into the iMac.

 

If the App loses connectivity, it usually freezes the Helix.  Sometimes just unplugging the USB from the Helix is fine, other times I need to reboot Helix.

 

It's a random thing that I can't isolate.  I know users on TGP have the same issue, just not me.   

 

While connecting is really annoying some days and painfree others, I do love the editor and basically always have the Helix plugged in to it.  For the 1,000's of IRs I have, it's essential.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Staying connected. Today it's working well, I've only had to restart the Helix editor once, and it's still connected. Other days it takes 4 or 5 tries just to get it connected...Start the app, close the app, repeat, finally reboot the iMac, try again. That's 5-10 minutes. If the computer falls asleep, most likely will have to reboot the Helix app.

 

I've tried three different cables. No difference.

 

Against Line6's advice, I actually have better luck plugging into a USB hub rather than straight into the iMac.

 

If the App loses connectivity, it usually freezes the Helix. Sometimes just unplugging the USB from the Helix is fine, other times I need to reboot Helix.

 

It's a random thing that I can't isolate. I know users on TGP have the same issue, just not me.

 

While connecting is really annoying some days and painfree others, I do love the editor and basically always have the Helix plugged in to it. For the 1,000's of IRs I have, it's essential.

Sounds like it could be a problem with the USB connection or a driver conflict but is by any chance the editor not coming up, or disconnecting or freezing, on one of the presets that comes up in the "Rebuilding" message when you boot up the Helix? If so, I posted a workaround for this bug in the following thread: http://line6.com/support/topic/20454-grid-for-getting-rid-of-the-preset-rebuild-messages-on-boot-in-latest-firmware-1120/?p=154956

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok... so to get the best sound you need a good output device... what would you suggest for a small living room for practicing and recording? Studio speakers? Small PA? Nice Computer speakers? 

 

I would probably go with a nice set of studio monitors in that situation.  That's going to give you the cleanest representation of the sounds from the Helix.  Powered monitors would no doubt be overkill and there are no computer speakers that are "nice" enough for this type of pro work.  Generally in the studio monitor business you get what you pay for so I wouldn't scrimp too much on price.  If you're going to be recording you would need good monitors anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Powered monitors would no doubt be overkill...

I wouldn't say that...unless we're talking about wedge monitors designed for stage use. There are plenty of powered near-field monitors that won't break the bank, or take up too much real estate. Plus, why get involved with needing a separate power amp? I love my JBL's (I forget the model # at the moment). 5" drivers...small, but plenty of low end for the living room, and they are very close to what I get from my L2T, tone-wise. They won't melt concrete, but you don't need or want that sitting on the couch anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't say that...unless we're talking about wedge monitors designed for stage use. There are plenty of powered near-field monitors that won't break the bank, or take up too much real estate. Plus, why get involved with needing a separate power amp? I love my JBL's (I forget the model # at the moment). 5" drivers...small, but plenty of low end for the living room, and they are very close to what I get from my L2T, tone-wise. They won't melt concrete, but you don't need or want that sitting on the couch anyway.

 

I was referring to powered stage monitors like an Alto or Yamaha.  Naturally the studio monitors I was referring to are powered.  It's almost impossible to find ones that aren't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like it could be a problem with the USB connection or a driver conflict but is by any chance the editor not coming up, or disconnecting or freezing, on one of the presets that comes up in the "Rebuilding" message when you boot up the Helix? If so, I posted a workaround for this bug in the following thread: http://line6.com/support/topic/20454-grid-for-getting-rid-of-the-preset-rebuild-messages-on-boot-in-latest-firmware-1120/?p=154956

 

Thanks!  I'll check this out later today.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...