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leemh

Alternate Tune sounds weird

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Hi Im using JTV-69.

 

 

When I select Alternate Tunings to 1/2 DOWN or any other applying to String No.5 (A string),

 

It sounds like tremolo effect. 

 

 

Only A string has that problem.

 

Only A string sounds like tremolo effect, when Alternate tuning changes A string Tune.

 

 

 

I reset all of the Alternate tunings and guitar model selector, but didn't work.

 

 

Can I solve this problem???

 

I don't know what is the reason.

 

 

 

Please advise me and help!

 

 

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Re: Clay-man

 

I set up my guitar has no buzz.

 

But still that problem happens.

 

What Can I do?? any other solutions?

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I hear it, but not on every note you play. Seems to come and go. Even odder that it only affects the one string. If you don't hear it at all in standard tuning, then it's probably not the piezo itself, otherwise you'd hear it on everything, alt tuning or not. That leaves a signal processing issue...not likely a user serviceable problem. Time to find a service center.

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Re; cruisinon2

 

living in country with no service center.

Is there any other way to solve this problem?

 

 

 

replace piezo pickup

http://www.fullcompass.com/prod/234088-Line-6-11-00-0010

 

Or update firmware via Line6 monkey

 

or ...

 

ã…¡ã…¡ã…¡ã…¡ã…¡ã…¡ã…¡

Now I check  only open string and first fret happen.

 

from 3rd fret to 22 fret don't sound weird.

 

Nut problem?

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Re; cruisinon2

 

living in country with no service center.

Is there any other way to solve this problem?

I doubt it. I don't think it's a mechanical issue, or you'd hear it everywhere. These guitars get weird...you could try replacing the piezo, but I'm skeptical. If the piezo was the problem, I would think you'd hear it with or without the alt tunings.

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Tremolo effect can be,...

 

-Dual tone effect, where you are hearing both the standard tune note coming

off the guitar and the Alt Tune note through the amp.

 

-Warbling can occur if the pick-ups are not adjusted to the correct height below the

strings and the magnet pulls on it while it's vibrating. This effect can be exaggerated

in Model mode with Alt Tune.

 

-It can also be that the intonation needs to be dialed-in a little tighter. Or could be some

other aspect of the set-up.

 

"I don't think it's a mechanical issue, or you'd hear it everywhere"--- normally I would agree

with crusinon2 (good call), but when in Alt Tune, depending on which Alt Tune is selected,...

not every string is in alternate tuning, and may still be in standard tuning. That would still

need to be determined.

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-Warbling can occur if the pick-ups are not adjusted to the correct height below the

strings and the magnet pulls on it while it's vibrating. Tis effect can be exaggerated in Model mode with Alt Tune.

 

But only on 1 string? If the pickup is too close to the A string, then absent a rip in the space/time continuum, it's gonna be too close to the other 5 too...and I'd think the higher strings would have a worse artifact, no? Less mass, more pull from the magnets...

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In Alt Tune, and that string is not in standard tuning,... maybe.

More than likely intonation or action on that string. There are many

reasons for it, so it should be looked at by a tech to determine which one.

 

No rip in the time/space continuum, just being experienced at working on

hundreds of these JTV guitars, and having seen and dealt with the afore

mentioned quirks first hand for the reasons mentioned.

 

And being a JTV-69, string height to pole piece can be changed for each

individual string through the saddle adjustment. So it's quite possible that it's

just that string that is the only one out of adjustment. Needs to be looked at

by a tech to narrow down what it is.

 

Good observation, keep up the good work.

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Upgrading firmware 1.81 to 2.21 wasn't the solution.

It was a longshot anyway. These guitars can have all sorts of weird issues...and based on the anecdotal evidence that shows up here on the forum, they fall into 2 basic categories: the ones that function flawlessly, and those that don't. Unfortunately, if it's an electronic issue, it's gonna be very difficult for you to troubleshoot, and even harder to do anything about if/when you figure it out. You may be stuck shipping it somewhere for service.

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There will be some limitations with alternate tunings. It might contribute to something hardware, I mean my 600's g string sounded like that to a really bad extent, but not on my JTV.

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I hear no artifacts at all on any of the sounds in that video.

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This sadly is a common artifact with any pitch shifted effect. As the Variax employs 6 separate pitch effects (one for each string) the DSP power needed can be costly. So they have to weigh the pro's cons of quality of pitch shift to quality of the other aspects of the model. I have often experienced the same effect with pitch shifting in My DAW or with pedals such as the Digitech Whammy Wah.

 

If the firmware allows it Line 6 could potentially offer optimized shifting algorithms for  each scenario (shining hi strings up/low strings down) however this remains to be seen. While what is there is no slouch it is not Eventide quality either.

 

Honestly if you are playing live is it likely not to be even noticed in the context of a band. However if recording one can always use a real open tuning. This is obvious but with such luxuries we become used to the convenience of this tech! 

 

So I would not view this as a faulty guitar but rather a compromise of the particular DSP chip and memory. 

 

Cheers

Roger

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This sadly is a common artifact with any pitch shifted effect. As the Variax employs 6 separate pitch effects (one for each string) the DSP power needed can be costly. So they have to weigh the pro's cons of quality of pitch shift to quality of the other aspects of the model. I have often experienced the same effect with pitch shifting in My DAW or with pedals such as the Digitech Whammy Wah.

 

If the firmware allows it Line 6 could potentially offer optimized shifting algorithms for  each scenario (shining hi strings up/low strings down) however this remains to be seen. While what is there is no slouch it is not Eventide quality either.

 

Honestly if you are playing live is it likely not to be even noticed in the context of a band. However if recording one can always use a real open tuning. This is obvious but with such luxuries we become used to the convenience of this tech! 

 

So I would not view this as a faulty guitar but rather a compromise of the particular DSP chip and memory. 

 

Cheers

Roger

 

Thanks your reply post, Roger!

 

I asked the Line6 distributor to order new PCA board to replace it.

 

You mean I don't have to replace it? or replacement will work?

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Back to the original question,

Dimazio Fast track(neck) and duncan SH4(bridge) pickups are on my guitar.

 

question is

variax does not sound well? unless all magnetic pickups are original from factory?

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So far on my 59 I don't use the magnetic pickups at all so I guess there's no downside to backing them away from the strings a long distance

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Thanks your reply post, Roger!

 

I asked the Line6 distributor to order new PCA board to replace it.

 

You mean I don't have to replace it? or replacement will work?

Hi Leemh, Regarding the pitch shift issue I am suggesting it is an artifact based on the very nature of how all pitch shifting works. So in short there is nothing wrong with your JTV and a replacement board will likely behave the same.

As in your video my JTV behaves this way as well with certain tunings especially when higher strings are tuned low. I can also achieve the same artifact if using a pitch shifter plug in on a single string e.g.: in my daw (Logic).

 

So should you get a replacement? If they are doing this no charge I suppose there is no harm other than your time. 

If you are doing delicate recording that requires the best quality I would simply tune the actual strings to the open tuning of your choice for the best results. However if you are playing live in the context of a band or your recording simple demo's the effect will not be too noticeable.

 

What Line6 have achieved in low latency is amazing coding for sure and perhaps the tradeoff is the pitch shifting algorithm? Considering the JTV series has 4X the processing power of the Older series it may be there is more improvements to come? Who knows...

 

Roger

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Flash update was done, so that possibility is eliminated.

 

One of the pick-ups is set too close to the strings. Magnet is then allowed

to pull on the strings inducing a warble affect. This can be exaggerated in Model

mode, and further exaggerated in Alt Tune.

 

Pick-up height should be checked and adjusted. The set-up in general should be

double checked and adjusted as needed. The audio suggests it’s on the edge of

fret buzz, which can further complicate the warble effect.

 

If a pick-up is not a stock pick-up, then this complicates it even more, and the usual

height setting will have to be altered. 

 

Judging by the serial number, this is an older unit, so I don’t know when a full set-up

was last checked or done to it. So far, from what I've heard in the audio, everything points

to a set-up issue. That's where "warbling effect" usually comes from.

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Flash update was done, so that possibility is eliminated.

 

One of the pick-ups is set too close to the strings. Magnet is then allowed

to pull on the strings inducing a warble affect. This can be exaggerated in Model

mode, and further exaggerated in Alt Tune.

 

Pick-up height should be checked and adjusted. The set-up in general should be

double checked and adjusted as needed. The audio suggests it’s on the edge of

fret buzz, which can further complicate the warble effect.

 

If a pick-up is not a stock pick-up, then this complicates it even more, and the usual

height setting will have to be altered. 

 

Judging by the serial number, this is an older unit, so I don’t know when a full set-up

was last checked or done to it. So far, from what I've heard in the audio, everything points

to a set-up issue. That's where "warbling effect" usually comes from.

 

-I moved pickups lower, but it didn't work.

-This guitar checked by professional repairman (not by Line6) and there's no natural (set-up) noise (warbling).

-I purchased used one with changed pickups (Dimarzio and Duncan), and no original pickups from seller.

 So this may cause this issue, but I don't know how can I get original stock pick-ups.

 And I heard when variax system turns on, mag pickups doesn't interrupt and affect.

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"... when variax system turns on, mag pickups doesn't interrupt and affect"---

The pick-ups are not engaged in Modeling mode, but the magnetic field of the magnets

is always there. It's what magnets do, there's no way to turn that off.

 

The signal from the pick-ups may not be there, but the pull from the magnets always is there.

Also there is intonation to consider, if it's not spot on, a number of frequency artifact can occur, 

and the Alt Tune will bring them out more,... including something called "dual tone effect".

 

That occurs when you hear both the note coming from the string and through the amp at the

same time. The strings are standard tuned, while the amp signal is Alt Tuned.

 

The non-stock pick-ups just complicate things more. It needs to be dealt with by a factory

authorized service center that knows the product. It's not the usual guitar that just any guitar

repair person can deal with. Needs to be looked at by someone who knows the technology.

 

And I'm available to those authorized techs to consult should they require it, since I have worked 

on hundreds of these. They will know how to contact me should they need it.

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Slightly off-topic but what happens when you only run the VDI cable to POD and in workbench the guitar model has been adjusted to use a percentage of mag pickup? ( that guitar model selected in POD mixer tab )

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Slightly off-topic but what happens when you only run the VDI cable to POD and in workbench the guitar model has been adjusted to use a percentage of mag pickup? ( that guitar model selected in POD mixer tab )

Can't do that if you intend to use the alt tunings.

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Ok so you're implying that if you don't use alt tunings on a patch, you can use just the VDI cable and blend in some mag pickup with the model.

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Ok so you're implying that if you don't use alt tunings on a patch, you can use just the VDI cable and blend in some mag pickup with the model.

Blend away if you so choose. That's why they put the option in Workbench. But if you try and use an alt tuning, it will be a horrendous mess. Can't pitch-shift anything coming from the mags.

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I'm having this problem too, but only with the G string on my JTV-69.

 

Please, if you can contact official Service center in your country,let me know what they say, and how to solve this problem.

I contacted Service Center in my country, but they are not actively supporting me, because they dont treat this JTV, but new Variax Standard

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The thing that I've found to make the biggest difference on both my JTVs (59 & 69) is proper intonation. I got both of them used and noticed a lot of warble I the alt tunings until I did a good setup and set the intonation correctly. After that, they have both been solid!

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The thing that I've found to make the biggest difference on both my JTVs (59 & 69) is proper intonation. I got both of them used and noticed a lot of warble I the alt tunings until I did a good setup and set the intonation correctly. After that, they have both been solid!

Yea, I noticed even though I just got a full setup somehow the bridge was all jacked up. I took it back to my guy and got it fixed. He also lowered my magnetic pickups a bit. Now everything tracks great on the alt tunings.

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The only weirdness I hear is on 12 string models.  I think more can be done adjusting string volume and pitch ( on the higher octave strings ) in Workbench.   My mags are still where they were from the factory.

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I just got a Standard yesterday. The alt tunings are completely unusable. Dual tone like crazy. Nothing has been touched on this guitar, no mods, nothing. It's been out of the box for 1 day and the alt tunings are terrible. 

What's the fix for this??

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On 12/26/2019 at 8:28 AM, firehawkkwah said:

I just got a Standard yesterday. The alt tunings are completely unusable. Dual tone like crazy. Nothing has been touched on this guitar, no mods, nothing. It's been out of the box for 1 day and the alt tunings are terrible. 

What's the fix for this??

 

Volume. At typical living room practice volumes, it's a whole lot easier to hear the guitar acoustically than you think... the strings are inches from your ears. When the pitch you hear directly from the strings and what's coming out of your speakers are not the same, dissonance is inevitable. Turn up until you can't hear the guitar itself anymore. Trust me... that's what's happening.

 

Nobody thinks it's possible at first, but it is. I use a Digitech Drop pedal when I'm playing anything that isn't my Variax, and the exact same thing happens. As long as you can also hear the unaltered pitches directly, it'll sound like a complete mess.

 

 

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I had read that volume was the fix, and had tried it, but didn't seem to work.

After reading this again I tried it louder, much louder, and also put on headphones.

 

You are right. Works fine.  had no idea the acoustic sound was so loud, but sure enough. Looks like there isn't a problem with the guitar, other than can't play with alternate tunings unless it's cranked up or headphones, also cranked.

 

Thanks for the quick correction.

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