Adjust your Global EQ..... you may be surprised.

[jbuhajla]

If there is no sound guy, it's probably a noisy dirty club... and in that case, I think you're just over-thinking' it.

...or a church using volunteers for running sound in which case they may adjust overall levels for channels, but not EQ'ing. Probably better they don't touch the EQ anyway. 

[PeterHamm]

...or a church using volunteers for running sound in which case they may adjust overall levels for channels, but not EQ'ing. Probably better they don't touch the EQ anyway. 

 

 

Yeah, but the room probably sounds so bad anyway...

[brue58ski]

If you are shaping your sound though, do that in the patch. Then your global EQ is on standby for the the bad sound guy or bad room.

 

Honestly, I know people use it to shape their sound, but that's just wrong thinking imho. You put EQ in the patch for that.

 

If you use Global EQ to shape your sound, what happens if patch 1A needs to use a different setting than 2C?  Do it in the patch and you fix that. Logically it makes zero sense to use global for any sound shaping whatsoever.

 

It is seriously designed to fix whatever room you walk into. I'm interested in other ways people use it, too, but using it to shape your tone is ultimately not the best plan. It just never is.

 

The technique you mention is not bad. And if you're in the same room all the time... by all means, do this technique, but write down the settings and do them in the patch. Don't ring out your room in Helix. Do that at the sound board...

 

I would NOT be using it to shape my sound. Where did you get that idea? I would use it to send pink noise through whatever I was going through wherever I was going through it, lIke the room I'm in, to flatten that as much as I could using the EQ. Since my patches would be created with something I did the same thing to they should translate fairly well. Nothing you're talking about relates to how I would use it. I thought I was clear about that.

[brue58ski]

Yeah, but the room probably sounds so bad anyway...

 

This is exactly the scenario I would use it for. Room sounds bad. Use the internal pink noise generator and on screen real time frequency analyzer to use the Global EQ to flatten the frequency response as much as I can. It's not perfect but it would make things better and make it easier for me to use the Golbal EQ to EQ my Helix to the room.

[PeterHamm]

I would NOT be using it to shape my sound. Where did you get that idea? I would use it to send pink noise through whatever I was going through wherever I was going through it, lIke the room I'm in, to flatten that as much as I could using the EQ. Since my patches would be created with something I did the same thing to they should translate fairly well. Nothing you're talking about relates to how I would use it. I thought I was clear about that.

 

 

I suppose you could do this. I never would. I'd use my ears and tweak to the room in the context of the band if I had time. If you do this, and it works well, we want to hear about it.

[brue58ski]

I suppose you could do this. I never would. I'd use my ears and tweak to the room in the context of the band if I had time. If you do this, and it works well, we want to hear about it.

 

I can't do it until the pink noise generator and frequency analyzer are installed in the Helix. I would have already tried my patches with the band in a pink noise EQ'd room. You sound like you've had some live sound experience. Have you never EQ'd a room using a pink noise generator and a frequency analyzer. I don't trust my ears as much as I do those two tools.

[PeterHamm]

I can't do it until the pink noise generator and frequency analyzer are installed in the Helix. I would have already tried my patches with the band in a pink noise EQ'd room. You sound like you've had some live sound experience. Have you never EQ'd a room using a pink noise generator and a frequency analyzer. I don't trust my ears as much as I do those two tools.

 

I trust those tools, in the right hands, to EQ the room.

 

I trust my ears to take care of my tone.

 

Imho, EQing the room is never going to be done right in a device like Helix. There are other tools for that, part of the FoH system.

[jbuhajla]

Yeah, but the room probably sounds so bad anyway...

Not horrible, but very dynamic. Quite a bit different from rehearsal with an empty worship hall than when it is full of people. Rows of people act like rows of sound absorption panels in the room. We don't worry about it much though. If things sound good during rehearsal, they won't sound bad during services. 

[brue58ski]

1) I trust those tools, in the right hands, to EQ the room.

 

2) I trust my ears to take care of my tone.

 

3) Imho, EQing the room is never going to be done right in a device like Helix. There are other tools for that, part of the FoH system.

 

1) Key words are "in the right hands". That's too often not happening.

 

2) I trust my ears to take care of my tone as well. I don't trust my ears to take care of my tone when I can't quickly get in a position to hear my tone from a good audience perspective but have to do it standing where I am behind, to the left, to the right, below, above, etc. relative to the PA speakers. You can't take care of your tone that way. You can with the Pink noise generator and a Frequency analyzer (not forgetting the reference mic and cable).

 

3) I still don't think you understand what I'm wanting to do AND how I would be doing it. I have EQ'd a room with a "FOH system".  I'm wanting to EQ only my Helix to the room. So that my patches would sound close to how they sounded when I created them. The Helix has a tool to do that. It's called the Global EQ. It is essentially there for EQing the Helix to a room. Right? Isn't that what it's primarily there for? I thought you knew that. I would like a way that is more accurate than a humans ears which can be fooled and help me since I'm not able to quickly get in a position to do it accurately if I wanted to use my ears.  So it would be logistically, a lot faster. Are there better tools available in the world. Yes. Do I have access to them all the time? NO. There are several other things I would use it for as well. If you still don't understand then I'm done trying to explain and/or justify it to you. Not that I've done a good job doing that, just don't want to spend more time on it. Bottom line is, you wouldn't use it, I would. Which is essentially what I was asking in the first place. I was not asking why or how you would or wouldn't use them, just whether you would or not. I would and have. In several different ways. It would just make it easier to have these things in the Helix.

[brue58ski]

MISTAKE. I apologize.

[Lachdanan0121]

Hey brue58ski, I think you read an old post by PeterHamm there.

 

Not only that, it is a post that you have already quoted, and addressed before a few posts up on the same page. (post #83)

 

You doing ok over there?

 

BTW I like the pink noise generator idea. Even though I am a studio only guy... I can see how this could really help the LIVE musician.

[brue58ski]

Hey brue58ski, I think you read an old post by PeterHamm there.

 

Not only that, it is a post that you have already quoted, and addressed before a few posts up on the same page. (post #83)

 

You doing ok over there?

 

BTW I like the pink noise generator idea. Even though I am a studio only guy... I can see how this could really help the LIVE musician.

 

No,I don't think I am doing OK. :unsure:  It WAS an old post. I thought I was on the last page but was on the second page. I will correct it. Thanks for pointing that out. I gotta get some rest or something.

[AndyAlmalla]

The frequency range of guitar is about 80hz to 1200hz so you can see in the pre-EQ shot of the RTA that this cabinet is definitely "enhanced" for guitar and I initially thought that was enough. But harmonics play a big role so Flat Response is really what the Helix is looking for as in the post-EQ shot of the RTA. The Global EQ curve on the Helix looks more dramatic than it is as it's really just pulling back those frequencies that the cab is enhancing, making it overall, more balanced.

 

P.S. Ignor the EQ that I didn't crop out of the RTA photo. It's not plugged in.

 

RTA pre-EQ

20160626_1744431.jpg

 

RTA post-EQ

20160626_1746121.jpg

 

My Global EQ setting.

my global eq.PNG

[HonestOpinion]

I pretty much never use factory presets although sometimes they are helpful for providing preset design ideas. It occurs to me though that setting the Global EQ to a general setting that works with whatever specific equipment you are using for monitoring (FRFR, guitar cab, etc.) might be a better way to audition them. Easier than rolling through factory presets and trying to EQ each one. If I ever have the time and energy I might just have to revisit the factory presets using this method.

[zooey]

My assumption is that factory presets are designed for generic "flat" FRFRs unless labeled otherwise. I've never seen a note like that, but I've barely used any of them. What else could they have in mind?

[HonestOpinion]

On 1/4/2018 at 11:39 AM, zooey said:

My assumption is that factory presets are designed for generic "flat" FRFRs unless labeled otherwise. I've never seen a note like that, but I've barely used any of them. What else could they have in mind?

The presets may have been designed using an FRFR or perhaps they provide a mix of presets designed on both FRFRs and guitar cabs - whatever was handy at the time in the Line6 "lab". Who knows? I guess the point I was trying to make is everyone's monitoring system, ears, and tone preferences tend to be different, so dialing in a baseline that you like via the Global EQ may be a better quick and dirty way to audition factory presets than expecting them to automatically sound golden through your particular FRFR or guitar cab.

[bingefeller]

I'm late to this thread, but just got a Helix LT and am interested how I use an RTA app with the Helix to tweak the EQ.?  Can I use an online pink noise generator and feed that signal into the Helix?  I'm guessing i would go phones out to 1/4" input on the Helix?

[PeterHamm]

1 hour ago, bingefeller said:

I'm late to this thread, but just got a Helix LT and am interested how I use an RTA app with the Helix to tweak the EQ.?  Can I use an online pink noise generator and feed that signal into the Helix?  I'm guessing i would go phones out to 1/4" input on the Helix?

 That RTA analysis is only meaningful for the room you do it in, tho.

Only use Global EQ to "fix" the room, when you are in the room. Otherwise, for shaping your tone, use EQ in the preset. (and START with the Amp EQ!)

[bingefeller]

2 hours ago, PeterHamm said:

 That RTA analysis is only meaningful for the room you do it in, tho.

Only use Global EQ to "fix" the room, when you are in the room. Otherwise, for shaping your tone, use EQ in the preset. (and START with the Amp EQ!)

 

Thanks Peter.  So, how do I go about using an RTA app?  I only play in one room at home anyway, so I want to experiment and use this as a learning experiment.

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, bingefeller said:

So, how do I go about using an RTA app? 

Hi,

 

I hope you realise what is involved in running a RTA of a room. You will need a microphone specifically designed for the job not just the app and the mic built into your phone. Have a look at this which is the real basics. I have seen guys spend many thousand on having a room “tuned” and speakers designed just for that space. It can get silly.

 

 

Then watch the serious stuff on this video from 4.00 

 

Hope this helps/makes sense - Good luck.

 

[brue58ski]

For those of you that use white noise to EQ rooms or your guitar cab, do you prefer using white noise to using pink noise? What ever you prefer, if you have time can you tell me why?