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tenorkeith

Where are the amps?!? - aka, beating a dead horse

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  1.  by the time it actually appears, it better cure cancer and give everyone free puppies.

 

Actually, if you could just cure puppy cancer I'd be happy enough, no point in getting a free one if the thing ends up very sick

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Miles, you've reduced all of amp design to the few factors you've called out, as if it's all just unimportant variations nobody would ever consider wasting their time on. Seriously? I bet there are a bunch of amp makers and players who would dispute that.

 

Well that wasn't my intent... quite the contrary!!!  Amp design is ALL about subtle differences against some basic principles.  

 

When designers go about building amps they are building for Tone (hopefully first) and then Features.   We can pull "Features" out of the mix, because in general their components are not modeled.

 

Tone is affected by lots of factors, mainly the voltages and types or filter circuits.  Sometimes these changes are made by a company and they call it a new model, and sometimes by others and it's a different brand.  But bottom line, if you want to sound like X or Y you have to purchase X or Y.    Compliments to the Chefs.

 

Enter Helix, and again, Compliments to those Chefs too.  Because of the component level modeling we have control of some of the things that differentiate amps in the real world.   Not all obviously, but a lot and we also have the ability to hook it up to many cabinets or even in many cases just use the pre-amp.  

 

I wish I knew more about the details of amp design, but the one example I can use is my Trace Elliott Velocette 12R.   I love that little amp and it's not in the Helix... or is it ?   It's a simple EL84 powered class A amp.  Has a tone and Volume, and a brightness,  No gain control.   Well that sounds familiar....     So I messed with the  '60 Vox AC-15 [Essex A-15] and I can get it to sound pretty much like my Trace Elliott Velocette.   Close enough that if I select a 12 inch speaker with an SM57 about 1" away and put it in one channel and run the trace with an sm57 into the other channel, I'd be hard pressed to tell which is which.  The Divided by 13 JRT 9/15 [Divided Duo] also came pretty close with just a little tweaking but I had gotten bored having already proved the point to myself.

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Well that wasn't my intent... quite the contrary!!!  Amp design is ALL about subtle differences against some basic principles.  

 

When designers go about building amps they are building for Tone (hopefully first) and then Features.   We can pull "Features" out of the mix, because in general their components are not modeled.

 

Tone is affected by lots of factors, mainly the voltages and types or filter circuits.  Sometimes these changes are made by a company and they call it a new model, and sometimes by others and it's a different brand.  But bottom line, if you want to sound like X or Y you have to purchase X or Y.    Compliments to the Chefs.

 

Enter Helix, and again, Compliments to those Chefs too.  Because of the component level modeling we have control of some of the things that differentiate amps in the real world.   Not all obviously, but a lot and we also have the ability to hook it up to many cabinets or even in many cases just use the pre-amp.  

 

I wish I knew more about the details of amp design, but the one example I can use is my Trace Elliott Velocette 12R.   I love that little amp and it's not in the Helix... or is it ?   It's a simple EL84 powered class A amp.  Has a tone and Volume, and a brightness,  No gain control.   Well that sounds familiar....     So I messed with the  '60 Vox AC-15 [Essex A-15] and I can get it to sound pretty much like my Trace Elliott Velocette.   Close enough that if I select a 12 inch speaker with an SM57 about 1" away and put it in one channel and run the trace with an sm57 into the other channel, I'd be hard pressed to tell which is which.  The Divided by 13 JRT 9/15 [Divided Duo] also came pretty close with just a little tweaking but I had gotten bored having already proved the point to myself.

 

Your point is well taken about having parameters like sag, hum, bias, etc. to customize the amps.  Even if these parameters encompassed all of the possible amp variations (which they don't, as a matter of fact, most of the customizeable parameters are geared towards tube or cab/mic settings, not modifying amp components), how many guitarists have the time or expertise to set them to emulate their favorite amps? Like any other application your primary job as a user is to make the most of the application to do other things, in our case, to play guitar. Yes, some configuration is required but it should not necessarily cross the line into you needing to develop the application as well.  

 

IMHO part of what you are purchasing when you buy an advanced modeler is the expertise and resources of the company selling the device to do the hard work and get you those emulations as faithful to the original as possible. That is the jumping off point I believe most users prefer before they start customizing the amp according to their own preferences. Otherwise, why not just provide only one amp model and let people fiddle with parameters to get all the rest? There is probably a happy medium of a good range of high quality amp emulations that satisfy most users. I definitely would rather see 100 great amp models rather than 300 models that range from crap to good. Of course those numbers are arbitrary and the bottom line is I would like to see as many high quality models of great amps as can be reasonably created whilst fixing bugs, providing new features, and new effects. As has been stated here ad nauseam, quality over quantity please but a good selection if possible.

 

In summary I guess I am perfectly happy if Line6 decides to take the 3Sigma versus Ownhammer approach to models which is to provide a smaller selection of only the best models possible rather than a huge array of choices, as long as there is an "adequate" number of choices available (whatever that is, I suppose the number where complaints die down to a dull murmur). I personally don't require 100's of models to choose from unless they are all spectacular. The approaches of both these companies are perfectly valid and different users will gravitate to one or both of these strategies, e.g. Helix or AX8. Personally, more amps is rather low on my priority list as there are other features, bug fixes, and effects that I would rather see get top billing.

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Well that wasn't my intent... quite the contrary!!!  Amp design is ALL about subtle differences against some basic principles. 

Cool, apologies for my misreading, seemed unlikely, but... anyway... Think DI summed it up pretty well. Onward!

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And the bugs? are we entitled to bugs or are they a bonus we should thank for?  :P 
(not that I've run into any of those that I've read about though) 
Bugs at launch can be considered as incompleteness, can't they?

Having a hardware design that doesn't allow one of the advertised features to work correctly (amp switching capabilities) can also be considered as incompleteness? (unless they advertise which brands -and/or models- that feature works with) More of a design flaw, in my oppinion.

My ideas at ideascale tend to be more "new feasible feature" oriented than the "gimme more variety of XXX" kind.
Am I entitled to new features? I don't think so, although, L6 history says they usually add some juicy bonus to their (flashable) products along the way, until they cease to develop them. So no, not entitled. It is reasonable to expect it, but they're not bound.
New models of XXX... entitlement? Well, no, but it seems the most obvious way to expand a product of that kind.

So... apparently we're not exactly entitled to new features (although some come), neither are we entitled to new models (yet they come), but the software (reportedly) had bugs at launch and that, we can, and must ask for fixes for. 

Other than the amp switching not being compatible with any of my amps (which was one of the selling points in my case, but not one of the most important) I'm happy with it. I hope they offer us a solution for that.
I won't go about telling what I love about it, suffice to say it inspires me to play, play more interesting stuff and play better, but there's room for improvement, and improved it will be. So they say, so I hope.

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Having a hardware design that doesn't allow one of the advertised features to work correctly (amp switching capabilities) can also be considered as incompleteness? (unless they advertise which brands -and/or models- that feature works with) More of a design flaw, in my oppinion.

 

 

 

Have you contacted CS in regards to this? If not, it's probably worth doing. They have been handling these amp switching issues on a case by case basis. They very well may be able to help you out.

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And the bugs? are we entitled to bugs or are they a bonus we should thank for?  :P 

(not that I've run into any of those that I've read about though) 

Bugs at launch can be considered as incompleteness, can't they?

 

 

By that measure every computer, software product, automobile, electronics unit, you name it...has been shipped incomplete.  Because someone somewhere will likely find something that doesn't work the way they expected it to.  Welcome to the universe of integration.

 

If all manufacturers settled on a standard interface, and implemented it exactly the same way, it might not be a problem.  Unfortunately, many manufacturers opt to use proprietary implementations hoping that it will ensure customer loyalty for after market parts.  It's a very old game, but one that still gets played a lot.

 

And the end result is that their customers get upset if outside manufacturers don't adapt to the proprietary implementation used by the piece of gear they bought that doesn't adhere to common, standard implementions.  No manufacturer can afford to chase every, tiny, proprietary implementation and keep their price point at something reasonable.  The best anyone can do is chase the major ones.

 

If that's a bug, then there is a bug in every product you've ever purchased that integrates in some way or another with outside vendors.

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If that's a bug, then there is a bug in every product you've ever purchased that integrates in some way or another with outside vendors.

Yes, that's a bug, and yes, you're almost right. Not every product, though, far from it.

 

What you're implying is, basically, that we have to settle for unfinished products, because, in certain cases, it's impossible to finish them before selling them.

Interesting. I suppose you settle for unfinished food, an unfinished house, unfinished clothes... welll, you get it. 

 

We buy unfinished products, yes, we're made unwilling betatesters, we pay to do some remodelling and things get broken, and other things just don't end up being what we wanted them to be, yes, and that's not acceptable, so we ask for solutions. 

 

Because someone somewhere will likely find something that doesn't work the way they expected it to.

Not just the way they expected it to, the way they should. 

 

For example: - Helix could not correctly respond to incoming MIDI CC #64 (Tap Tempo) - FIXED

                      - Expression pedals with inverted polarity could cause Helix Rack to freeze when connected to Helix Control - FIXED

                      - The Looper block’s icon could incorrectly reflect its state after saving a preset - FIXED

 

That's not the way "someone somewhere" would expect it to work, it's the way the company intended it to work, and it didn't, until it got fixed.

 

Have you contacted CS in regards to this? If not, it's probably worth doing. They have been handling these amp switching issues on a case by case basis. They very well may be able to help you out.

Thanks Phil. Will do.

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I have to say, more than I want new amps, I'd like the ability to have the Power amp models as seperate from the amp models.

 

Being able to run a pre amp of my choice into a power amp of my choice would give 100x more flexibility than having another mesa boogie model or similar.

 

(not that I wouldn't also like a mesa mark 4 or something in there)

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I'm pretty sure I read that the Atomic Amplifire has separate power amp models, like one each for 6L6, EL34, Etc. It could be cool to match them to different preamps. Not sure if anybody else does that sort of thing.

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...Because by the time something is actually announced, the public will have whipped themselves into a frenzy guessing what it might be, and by the time it actually appears, it better cure cancer and give everyone free puppies...

 

This. So. much. this.

 

Plus, it's fun to get the firmware update message and find out you have a new amp you DREAMED of having in the box that you didn't know was coming (Matchless anyone?)

 

And the bugs? are we entitled to bugs or are they a bonus we should thank for? ...

 

Thankfully, this seems, at this point, to be the main thrust of these updates.

 

I will say this, though. I've used some beta builds in the past few months that had bugs that y'all never saw, and they were STILL solid enough to gig with, and I did. So... there's that...

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And the bugs? are we entitled to bugs or are they a bonus we should thank for?  :P 

(not that I've run into any of those that I've read about though) 

Bugs at launch can be considered as incompleteness, can't they?

...

No. "Imperfect" does not mean "incomplete". They are two completely separate words with disparate meanings. A finished product can have flaws. Complete software can have bugs. To say otherwise is to deny reality and redefine words.

 

Helix was released as a complete product. It's great! But it's not perfect.

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Even if new firmware will have 200+ new amps, I'm more than sure what somebody will still complain: "why line 6 did not model my favorite <amp name>???"

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Helix will likely never have 200 amps. Our goal has always been dead-on accuracy of specific amps (actually, a specific serial number, as two of the exact same amp can sound notably different), and you just can't get there from piecing together a library of pre-baked digital components. It takes us upwards of a month to model an amp—sometimes more—and we're not satisfied until we can fool our own people. The listening challenge we held last year paled in comparison to the tweaking we do while the amp model is actually being created.

 

If someone really needs hundreds of amps, I'd recommend they look at the Kemper KPA. It can profile new amps all day, and it's a brilliant piece of kit. Christoph's a genius; I have his Virus B Rack in my office right now.

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16mxs5.jpg

 

I kid, I kid... Not meant as an attack on anyone... :D

 

Actually, just something I've run into personally with a lot of guitarists I've played with.

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16mxs5.jpg

 

I kid, I kid... Not meant as an attack on anyone... :D

 

Actually, just something I've run into personally with a lot of guitarists I've played with.

Lol...those guys are everywhere. Just like the weekend warrior on his $22K Harley, with another $5K worth of engine mods. Squeezes every last ounce of power out of it so he can putt 3.4 miles to the nearest bar and pay homage to Coors Light.

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Helix will likely never have 200 amps. Our goal has always been dead-on accuracy of specific amps (actually, a specific serial number, as two of the exact same amp can sound notably different), and you just can't get there from piecing together a library of pre-baked digital components. It takes us upwards of a month to model an amp—sometimes more—and we're not satisfied until we can fool our own people. The listening challenge we held last year paled in comparison to the tweaking we do while the amp model is actually being created.

 

If someone really needs hundreds of amps, I'd recommend they look at the Kemper KPA. It can profile new amps all day, and it's a brilliant piece of kit. Christoph's a genius; I have his Virus B Rack in my office right now.

 

Ahhhhh the voice of reason.     Now go back in your corner and let us bicker like spoiled brats.  :)    Oh yeah... and thanks for all you do.

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Helix will likely never have 200 amps. Our goal has always been dead-on accuracy of specific amps (actually, a specific serial number, as two of the exact same amp can sound notably different), and you just can't get there from piecing together a library of pre-baked digital components. It takes us upwards of a month to model an amp—sometimes more—and we're not satisfied until we can fool our own people. The listening challenge we held last year paled in comparison to the tweaking we do while the amp model is actually being created.

 

If someone really needs hundreds of amps, I'd recommend they look at the Kemper KPA. It can profile new amps all day, and it's a brilliant piece of kit. Christoph's a genius; I have his Virus B Rack in my office right now.

 

Although I enthusiastically await and embrace new amp model development as well as refinement of existing models, I think the approach you are taking is excellent!  If Line6 continues to slowly add models but retains this level of quality on them, the Helix stands to have some of the most accurate and best models on the market, capable of competing with any other product.  Again, I view this as the 3Sigma rather than the Ownhammer strategy and it is equally valuable. This dedication to accuracy and authenticity is exactly what I prefer to having hundreds of amp choices only some of which actually closely resemble the real thing.  I do hope at some point you can reduce the amount of time to produce a great amp as a month+ hardly seems sustainable, but maybe that is just what it takes to get a great amp. I know it can be hard to keep the focus on quality with so many clamoring for more models and comparing the Helix to devices with many more.  Nevertheless, I am confident Line6 can satisfy the majority of its users by steadily adding to the current library. I think most users would be happy to see a couple of new amps on a slightly more regular basis until a baseline of choices is reached and perhaps beyond, that baseline does not seem that far off to me. Thank you for the fine work and by all means please keep 'em coming!

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No. "Imperfect" does not mean "incomplete". They are two completely separate words with disparate meanings. A finished product can have flaws. Complete software can have bugs. To say otherwise is to deny reality and redefine words.

 

Helix was released as a complete product. It's great! But it's not perfect.

Well, that's your point of view, isn't it? 

I love it when somebody says "this is the truth, and if you say otherwise, you're just wrong". well... Earth is not flat but, is it really round?

 

Anyway, I'm not having this conversation. This is linguistics, bordering on philosophy. What you call imperfect, with your share of reasons, I have my reasons to call incomplete. You may try harder to see my point and understand why I think this way, or not. I won't give you any argument because, with all due respect, I don't really need you (or anybody) to share my point of view. That, and I'm too tired right now.

You may further try to convince me that the concept of incompleteness is way out of place in this matter, if you feel like it. I will read what you say, but don't hold your breath waiting for an answer. I mean, if you convince me, I'll tell you so, if not, I'm dropping it.

 

Just one question, as English is not my native language... would you say the tone of this post (or the previous one) is rude? I welcome your input.

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16mxs5.jpg

 

I kid, I kid... Not meant as an attack on anyone... :D

 

Actually, just something I've run into personally with a lot of guitarists I've played with.

LOL - besides, who is Major 7th?!

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until a baseline of choices is reached

Out of pure curiosity, what are you missing? 

 

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Out of pure curiosity, what are you missing?

I don't think I would characterize it as "missing" as I am able to get most of what I want out of the current amp choices. There are a couple of Mesa Boogie and PRS amps, a Brian May Deacy type amp, and perhaps a few boutique amps I could never afford that would be nice to have but nothing that is missing even approaches being a showstopper for me. There are plenty of stellar amp choices to be found currently on the Helix. I think if Line6 continues to consistently add a few more top-notch amps most of their users will be more than satisfied.

 

My current wishlist is that the focus remain on bug fixes (particularly tap tempo), stability, more effect and reverb choices, tuner enhancement, scenes, spillover, and reduced switching latency.

 

I also think the Editor has a few core features that need to be incorporated and are probably coming although the Editor remains far down on my list of priorities as it does not impact using the Helix during a performance. To be honest, happy as I am to have the Editor I wish it would go through a redesign that had it relying less on those huge colored scroll bars that L6 uses for every parameter. Additionally the scroll bars essentially all look the same which means that app related elements that would logically and visually distinctly be grouped together in other GUIs appear as a jumble of colored bars in the Helix Edtor. The bars are also IMHO a less than ideal GUI element for text selection (particularly with larger lists, currently you can only see one selection at a time, not good). They unnecessarily eat up screen real estate and prevent operations with a larger number of parameters from all fitting on one screen. This forces you to use the scroll bar on the far right side of the screen to see the additional parameters. Alternative GUI design elements like pulldown menus would allow everything to easily fit on one screen. However, I would venture to say this level of Editor redesign will probably never happen and I would not want precious development resources being squandered on it, at least right now when there are more important things to work on. And... thanks very much for the Editor, it is great to have despite my design concerns.

 

Last but not least I would love to have at least the option to position the "Master" volume on the amp models where the "Ch Vol" is currently located. That way I could save my presets with the amp block selected and be able to quickly use the parameter selector knobs to dial in the balance between "Drive" and "Master" just as I would on a real amp. Currently the "Master" volume requires you to page to the second page of the amp models. A very unnatural and inconvenient way to model an amp's controls in my opinion. Btw, you can vote for this option here if you agree, http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Put-Master-volume-on-the-same-page-as-the-Drive-in-amp-model/788502-23508

 

After all these wishlist items being expressed I will issue the standard disclaimer that I still feel the Helix is a wonderful confluence of art and science and I could not be happier with my purchase and the capabilities it offers me. Line6 hit this one out of the park and brought an item to market that competitors will be scrambling to catch up with in certain areas for years.

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My current wishlist is that the focus remain on bug fixes (particularly tap tempo), stability, more effect and reverb choices, tuner enhancement, scenes, spillover, and reduced switching latency.

cheering-clapping-smiley-emoticon.gif

Maybe one or two little wishes more: Integration of Workbench HD and DT amp;

at least Line6 products...

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Well, that's your point of view, isn't it? 

I love it when somebody says "this is the truth, and if you say otherwise, you're just wrong". well... Earth is not flat but, is it really round?

 

Anyway, I'm not having this conversation. This is linguistics, bordering on philosophy. What you call imperfect, with your share of reasons, I have my reasons to call incomplete. You may try harder to see my point and understand why I think this way, or not. I won't give you any argument because, with all due respect, I don't really need you (or anybody) to share my point of view. That, and I'm too tired right now.

You may further try to convince me that the concept of incompleteness is way out of place in this matter, if you feel like it. I will read what you say, but don't hold your breath waiting for an answer. I mean, if you convince me, I'll tell you so, if not, I'm dropping it.

 

Just one question, as English is not my native language... would you say the tone of this post (or the previous one) is rude? I welcome your input.

This is silly. Your stance just doesn't jive with reality. If that's how you want to think of it, however, I obviously can't stop you. Think what you want.

 

Windows XP is, in general, a highly regarded operating system. It was great. Solid, reliable, dependable, secure (all relatively speaking, obviously). From release to death (basically), even after its full support life cycle, it still has bugs. Is it not complete? Applying your standard of "if a product has bugs then it is incomplete" to Windows XP makes it seem kind of silly, doesn't it?

 

Try applying that standard to other things. Have you ever turned in a test where you didn't get 100% of the answers correct? Does that mean you didn't complete the test? No, of course not. It makes no sense to say that. So why would you apply that standard to software, products in general, or the Helix specifically? It's nonsensical.

 

Your claim is that one trait (imperfection) precludes another (completeness). This is false. I am not stating an opinion. I am stating fact. Something can be complete, yet imperfect. This is particularly true of software.

 

If something is incomplete, then it is imperfect. This premise is true. Incompleteness entails imperfection.

If something is imperfect, then it is incomplete. This premise is false. Imperfection does not entail incompleteness.

 

Man, what a waste of time...

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Quotation of the day:

 

Imperfection does not entail incompleteness.

 

Man, what a waste of time...

 

 

 

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...

If something is incomplete, then it is imperfect. This premise is true. Incompleteness entails imperfection.

If something is imperfect, then it is incomplete. This premise is false. Imperfection does not entail incompleteness.

 

...

 

I love your use of syllogisms here! I hope Inerzia and you can keep it friendly as you both make good arguments. I understand Inerzia's point despite the discussion of semantic accuracy. Just for fun and to play devil's advocate I am not sure the first syllogism is always true, particularly when it comes to art. The Venus de Milo may not have arms making it incomplete but many would argue it is perfect. Many artists and musicians never feel like their best works are totally complete but at some point you have to put down the brush or leave the recording studio. Others look upon those works as perfect.  Lastly, I would posit that the ideal of perfection is generally projected from the status quo, as soon as we reach perfection that becomes the new status quo and from our new, higher vantage point, we perceive a new higher level as "perfection".  For this reason, like the infinite, perfection may well be unattainable.  I would admit that this definition of "perfection" may not have a whole lot to do with your syllogism. It might however help explain why no matter what Line6 delivers there will always be more requests for the next level of "perfection". That and the fact that a lot of people including me clearly have too much free time on their hands.  :D

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I love your use of syllogisms here! I understand Inerzia's point despite the discussion of semantic accuracy. Just for fun and to play devil's advocate I am not sure the first syllogism is always true, particularly when it comes to art. The Venus de Milo may not have arms making it incomplete but many would argue it is perfect. Many artists and musicians never feel like their best works are totally complete but at some point you have to put down the brush or leave the recording studio. Others look upon those works as perfect.  Lastly, I would posit that the ideal of perfection is generally projected from the status quo, as soon as we reach perfection that becomes the new status quo and from our new, higher vantage point, we perceive a new higher level as "perfection".  For this reason, like the infinite, perfection may well be unattainable.  I would admit however that this definition of "perfection" may not have a whole lot to do with your syllogism. It might however help explain why no matter what Line6 delivers there will always be more requests for the next level of "perfection". That and the fact that a lot of people including me clearly have too much free time on their hands.  :D

 

"To an engineer, good enough means perfect. With an artist, there's no such thing as perfect."

 - Alexander Calder, probably

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Helix will likely never have 200 amps. Our goal has always been dead-on accuracy of specific amps (actually, a specific serial number, as two of the exact same amp can sound notably different), and you just can't get there from piecing together a library of pre-baked digital components. It takes us upwards of a month to model an amp—sometimes more—and we're not satisfied until we can fool our own people. The listening challenge we held last year paled in comparison to the tweaking we do while the amp model is actually being created.

 

If someone really needs hundreds of amps, I'd recommend they look at the Kemper KPA. It can profile new amps all day, and it's a brilliant piece of kit. Christoph's a genius; I have his Virus B Rack in my office right now.

I think you are correct on the 200 amps part. At 1 amp added each year so far I don't think I'll live that long.

 

Been really great if line 6 would have told us this before I bought mine..........I got one of the 1st ones.

A Mesa mark 2c+ would have been killer on the helix. But I have already giving up hope.

 

Could have at least finished the dual rec or even 1 full channel........but again I give up hope.

 

Haven't even turned the helix on in over a month as I just play my mark 5.

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Concerning the discussion of incompleteness vs. imperfection, I believe Godel's Theorem of Incompleteness fully resolves the issue. Especially when considered in the context of Kant's Critique of Pure Reason. If any of us need a refresher of these (and I doubt it) a quick re-read of both should suffice.

 

The objection raised in Hegel's Dialectic turns out to be just a red herring.

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My current wishlist is that the focus remain on bug fixes (particularly tap tempo), stability, more effect and reverb choices, tuner enhancement, scenes, spillover, and reduced switching latency.

 

I agree with the rest of your post in its entirety, but to add to your list, I'd like to see a way to segratate the "amp" and if it's just an option to bypass the pre-amp of an AMP-CAB block that is fine with me.  Not to dwell but for those that may have not seen the previous on this, we can have a CAB block, we can have a PRE-AMP block, we can have COMBO-AMP block that we can put whatever cab on we want via IR, but we can't just get to the amp.  

 

Regarding completeness and such..  as a software developer since the 80's (now mostly web stuff), there is NO SUCH THING as a piece of software with NO BUGS.  The best you can hope for is a piece of software that no bugs have been found, and THAT is pretty rare.  And of course there are compatibility issues...  The software has no known bugs, but doesn't work on X version of Y device.  

 

Helix is made of Hardware, Software and Firmware (which really is just more software).  It's amazing any of these units (Helix, AxFX, Kemper) are as tight as they are.  One chip manufacturer changing a seemingly insignificant spec and all hell can break loose.  

 

FWIW, I too am also a fan of the "less is more" approach.  While I may have over simplified the amp design process above, I love the component approach to modeling.   Add in being able to apply third party IR's and I really can't think of a situation where I couldn't find/build the sound I want.  

 

I recently was working with an Ovation Thunderhead.  It's a 335 style guitar that blows the ES335 off the map.  I was playing it through the guitar input of my Ampeg B15N and think'n... wow...  This is a pretty cool sound...  if only I had a 12" speaker and it had some reverb........     I have a Helix...  soooo    now I have a B12N with reverb... and drive...  

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... Haven't even turned the helix on in over a month as I just play my mark 5.

 

I have to admit it is a giant challenge to get anything digital to sound as good as some decent analog pedals through the Mesa Mark V. Just curious, what has been keeping you away from the Helix?

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Concerning the discussion of incompleteness vs. imperfection, I believe Godel's Theorem of Incompleteness fully resolves the issue. Especially when considered in the context of Kant's Critique of Pure Reason. If any of us need a refresher of these (and I doubt it) a quick re-read of both should suffice.

 

The objection raised in Hegel's Dialectic turns out to be just a red herring.

 

LOL, great post!

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Concerning the discussion of incompleteness vs. imperfection, I believe Godel's Theorem of Incompleteness fully resolves the issue. Especially when considered in the context of Kant's Critique of Pure Reason. If any of us need a refresher of these (and I doubt it) a quick re-read of both should suffice.

 

The objection raised in Hegel's Dialectic turns out to be just a red herring.

Dogs barking can't fly without umbrella. ;)

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I have to admit it is a giant challenge to get anything digital to sound as good as some decent analog pedals through the Mesa Mark V. Just curious, what has been keeping you away from the Helix?

 

Sometimes a nice tube amp just really hits the spot.

Other times when I'm pressed for time I don't even plug in. (Works been crazy lately)

 

I'm not saying the helix is bad.........it's pretty good........I just don't know how in g0ds name line 6 overlooked putting a Mesa mark on this.

 

I was just checking for an update today as its been awhile.......(I didn't update last time as I don't use pc interface)

I got to stop reading threads lol. I tend to run across a few poor souls wanting new amps and the rest of the world coming down on the ones who do want more.

 

Tends to sour the helix experience.

Makes me wish I didn't buy it.

Other than that I really like my helix and think it's great.

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Enough excuses! 

Where is the "Peavey Bandit" amp in this damn thing???   :(

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Enough excuses!

 

Where is the "Peavey Bandit" amp in this damn thing??? :(

Lmao...

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Which Bandit? The 65, Sliver Stripe or the trans tube Shefield. :D

 

Now let the pigeons loose!

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