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arislaf

Ζvex not same the original?

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Can not reach those cool octave down tones as the original does.. And I use the same settings.

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This thing, the industrial fuzz, sounds like an ill something or other. :lol:

 

It seems the key to the one in Helix is having the compression around 4.8 or less and of course the oscillator has to be turned on. The pitch of the sickness can be controlled by the drive and stability, and also less so, or more of a fine tune, by the compess and gate params. So to make an octave down sort of thing, I guess it would also depend on what's being played.

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This thing, the industrial fuzz, sounds like an ill something or other. :lol:

 

It seems the key to the one in Helix is having the compression around 4.8 or less and of course the oscillator has to be turned on. The pitch of the sickness can be controlled by the drive and stability, and also less so, or more of a fine tune, by the compess and gate params. So to make an octave down sort of thing, I guess it would also depend on what's being played.

Thanks Duncann, but i found those on the TGP after a while and made me happy :

 

Hi compression fuzz
Vol 10:00 Gate 3:00 Comp 9:00 Drive 5:00 Stab 5:00
Velcro fuzz
Vol 10:00 Gate 7:00 Comp 5:00 Drive 5:00 Stab 2:00
Cleanish hi octave intermodulation
Vol 10:00 Gate 2:00-3:00 Comp 7:00 Drive7:00 Stab 5:00
Smooth fuzz
Vol 10:00 Gate 7:00 Comp 3:00 Drive 5:00 Stab 5:00
(lower Stab is more mellow)
Radio fuzz
Vol 10:00 Gate 7:00 Comp 10:00 Drive 12:00
Stab: Lower from fully clockwise while playing open 'A' with left hand. Stop at most interesting tone.
 
The Fuzz Factory Setting List
Atari 7:00 3:00 5:00 8:00
60'sFuzz 2:00 8:30 3:00 5:00
Arpegio 12:00 3:00 3:00 3:00
Bonkers Fuzz (1) 2:00 2:00 11:00 3:00
Bonkers Fuzz (2) 1:00 1:00 11:00 3:00
Clean Fuzz 5:00 2:00 11:00 5:00
Clean Up Fuzz 7:00 7:00 5:00 (lower till squeal stops) 5:00
Clean to OD 5:00 2:00 10:00 5:00
Dummy Fuzz 11:00 11:00 5:00 5:00
Dead Quite Ripper 9:00 3:00 5:00 7:00
Electric Beans 7:00 5:00 7:00 5:00
Fizzy Fizz 10:00 1:00 11:00 12:00
Fuzz Bright 1:00 12:00 1:00 4:00
Fuzz Distortion 12:00 12:00 3:00 9:00
FuzzFace71 (1) 12:00 12:00 12:00 5:00
FuzzFace71 (2) 3:00 7:00 12:00 4:30
FuzzFace71 (3) 7:00 12:00 1:00 5:00
FuzzFace71 (4) 12:00 7:00 12:00 5:00
Fuzz Mellow 1:00 12:00 1:00 9:00
Fuzz Splutter 3:00 12:00 3:00 9:00
Fuzz Squeal 9:00 12:00 3:00 9:00
Hi-Compression 3:00 9:00 5:00 5:00
Hi-Octane 2:00 to 3:00 7:00 7:00 5:00
Interference 7:00 3:00 12:00 5:00
Intermodulation 2-3:00 7:00 7:00 5:00
IYW 2:00 3:00 4:00 5:00
Juice Face 12:00 12:00 12:00 12:00
Krackle Fuzz 1:00 4:00 10:00 2-5:00
Mellow Mud 2:30 7:00 7:00 9:00
Metal Distortion 4:00 10:30 7:00 5:00
Modulated Mud Fuzz 12:00 11:00 5:00 7:00
Modulated Sticky 12:00 1:00 5:00 7:00
Modulated Sticky Fuzz 9:00 3:00 9:00 3:00
Muse-esque 2:30 3:15 5:00 5:00
No-Name Fuzz 1:00 11:00 2:00 7:00
No-Name Fuzz (2) 10:00 7:00 12:00 5:00
OD/Fuzz 7:00 7:00 7:00 5:00
OD Squeal 7:00 12:00 3:00 3:00
Pitch Drop 7:00 12:00 5:00 7:00
Please Fuzz 12:00 7:00 3:00 2:00
Prickly Vexter 8:45 12:15 2:00 4:45 1:30
Psychedelic Crackle 1:00 8:00 3:00 3:00
Punky 2:30 - 3:30 7:00 7:00 5:00
Radio Fuzz 7:00 10:00 12:00 5:00 (play A, lower to taste)
Random Fuzz 1:30 7:00 5:00 4:00 (approx)
Range 7:00 12:00 3:00 12:00
Resonant Fuzz 7:00 7:00 12:00 4:00
Smashing Pumpkins-esque 2:00 9:00 5:00 10:00
Smooth Fuzz 7:00 3:00 5:00 5:00 (lower to mellow)
Soft Fuzz 1:00 7:00 7:00
VariableSpastic Muff 5:00 7:00 5:00 5:00
Squealer Fuzz 9:00 9:00 9:00 9:00
Squealer Fuzz (2) 7:00 8:00 1:00 7:00
Static / Low 12:00 12:00 5:00 7:00
Stooges Fuzz 3:00 7:00 3:00 5:00
Stylo Fuzz 12:30 12:30 7:00 7:00
Super-Heavy 3:00 9:00 5:00 5:00
Sweet Sustain 1:00 7:00 10:00 1:30
Tight and Sweet 12:00 8:00 8:00 5:00
Tiny 10:30 12:00 12:30 9:30
Traditional Fuzz 9:00 7:00 11:00 to 1:00 11-1:00
Traditional Fuzz (1) 9:00 7:00 1:00 5:00
Traditional Fuzz (2) 2:00 7:00 3:00 5:00
Ugly Fuzz 2:00 8:30 3:30 2:00
Velcro 7:00 5:00 5:00 2:00
Weezer-esque 2:30 7:00 7:00 5:00
Whale 7:00 1:00 5:00 9:00
What the Fuzz? 7:00 7:00 5:00 5:00
Sci-Fi Fuzz...9:00 3:15 4:00 2:00
Reich's Pendulum Fuzz in 'E'...12:00 9:00 3:00 12:00
 
Zvex is an awesome peace of gear.
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Wow. That's quite the number of settings with an attached name. Looks like a good reason to have per-block profiles on Helix.

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Thanks Duncann, but i found those on the TGP after a while and made me happy :

 

Hi compression fuzz
Vol 10:00 Gate 3:00 Comp 9:00 Drive 5:00 Stab 5:00
Velcro fuzz
Vol 10:00 Gate 7:00 Comp 5:00 Drive 5:00 Stab 2:00
Cleanish hi octave intermodulation
Vol 10:00 Gate 2:00-3:00 Comp 7:00 Drive7:00 Stab 5:00
Smooth fuzz
Vol 10:00 Gate 7:00 Comp 3:00 Drive 5:00 Stab 5:00
(lower Stab is more mellow)
Radio fuzz
Vol 10:00 Gate 7:00 Comp 10:00 Drive 12:00
Stab: Lower from fully clockwise while playing open 'A' with left hand. Stop at most interesting tone.
 
The Fuzz Factory Setting List
Atari 7:00 3:00 5:00 8:00
60'sFuzz 2:00 8:30 3:00 5:00
Arpegio 12:00 3:00 3:00 3:00
Bonkers Fuzz (1) 2:00 2:00 11:00 3:00
Bonkers Fuzz (2) 1:00 1:00 11:00 3:00
Clean Fuzz 5:00 2:00 11:00 5:00
Clean Up Fuzz 7:00 7:00 5:00 (lower till squeal stops) 5:00
Clean to OD 5:00 2:00 10:00 5:00
Dummy Fuzz 11:00 11:00 5:00 5:00
Dead Quite Ripper 9:00 3:00 5:00 7:00
Electric Beans 7:00 5:00 7:00 5:00
Fizzy Fizz 10:00 1:00 11:00 12:00
Fuzz Bright 1:00 12:00 1:00 4:00
Fuzz Distortion 12:00 12:00 3:00 9:00
FuzzFace71 (1) 12:00 12:00 12:00 5:00
FuzzFace71 (2) 3:00 7:00 12:00 4:30
FuzzFace71 (3) 7:00 12:00 1:00 5:00
FuzzFace71 (4) 12:00 7:00 12:00 5:00
Fuzz Mellow 1:00 12:00 1:00 9:00
Fuzz Splutter 3:00 12:00 3:00 9:00
Fuzz Squeal 9:00 12:00 3:00 9:00
Hi-Compression 3:00 9:00 5:00 5:00
Hi-Octane 2:00 to 3:00 7:00 7:00 5:00
Interference 7:00 3:00 12:00 5:00
Intermodulation 2-3:00 7:00 7:00 5:00
IYW 2:00 3:00 4:00 5:00
Juice Face 12:00 12:00 12:00 12:00
Krackle Fuzz 1:00 4:00 10:00 2-5:00
Mellow Mud 2:30 7:00 7:00 9:00
Metal Distortion 4:00 10:30 7:00 5:00
Modulated Mud Fuzz 12:00 11:00 5:00 7:00
Modulated Sticky 12:00 1:00 5:00 7:00
Modulated Sticky Fuzz 9:00 3:00 9:00 3:00
Muse-esque 2:30 3:15 5:00 5:00
No-Name Fuzz 1:00 11:00 2:00 7:00
No-Name Fuzz (2) 10:00 7:00 12:00 5:00
OD/Fuzz 7:00 7:00 7:00 5:00
OD Squeal 7:00 12:00 3:00 3:00
Pitch Drop 7:00 12:00 5:00 7:00
Please Fuzz 12:00 7:00 3:00 2:00
Prickly Vexter 8:45 12:15 2:00 4:45 1:30
Psychedelic Crackle 1:00 8:00 3:00 3:00
Punky 2:30 - 3:30 7:00 7:00 5:00
Radio Fuzz 7:00 10:00 12:00 5:00 (play A, lower to taste)
Random Fuzz 1:30 7:00 5:00 4:00 (approx)
Range 7:00 12:00 3:00 12:00
Resonant Fuzz 7:00 7:00 12:00 4:00
Smashing Pumpkins-esque 2:00 9:00 5:00 10:00
Smooth Fuzz 7:00 3:00 5:00 5:00 (lower to mellow)
Soft Fuzz 1:00 7:00 7:00
VariableSpastic Muff 5:00 7:00 5:00 5:00
Squealer Fuzz 9:00 9:00 9:00 9:00
Squealer Fuzz (2) 7:00 8:00 1:00 7:00
Static / Low 12:00 12:00 5:00 7:00
Stooges Fuzz 3:00 7:00 3:00 5:00
Stylo Fuzz 12:30 12:30 7:00 7:00
Super-Heavy 3:00 9:00 5:00 5:00
Sweet Sustain 1:00 7:00 10:00 1:30
Tight and Sweet 12:00 8:00 8:00 5:00
Tiny 10:30 12:00 12:30 9:30
Traditional Fuzz 9:00 7:00 11:00 to 1:00 11-1:00
Traditional Fuzz (1) 9:00 7:00 1:00 5:00
Traditional Fuzz (2) 2:00 7:00 3:00 5:00
Ugly Fuzz 2:00 8:30 3:30 2:00
Velcro 7:00 5:00 5:00 2:00
Weezer-esque 2:30 7:00 7:00 5:00
Whale 7:00 1:00 5:00 9:00
What the Fuzz? 7:00 7:00 5:00 5:00
Sci-Fi Fuzz...9:00 3:15 4:00 2:00
Reich's Pendulum Fuzz in 'E'...12:00 9:00 3:00 12:00
 
Zvex is an awesome peace of gear.

 

 

Great find!

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Hey, a couple of questions. so does the industrial fuzz modeler on the Helix self-oscillates like the real analog fuzz factory? I mean full-on squealing from ripping ultrasonic all the way to a rumbling growl, with varying degrees of grain and hiss by adjusting the stab parameter.

Second, I have an HD500X which allows me to map pedal parameters (knobs) to the expression pedal, do you think it’s possible to assign stab/drive on the Helix FF model to modulate them in real time with the expression pedal? 

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Yes, it oscillate very similarly to the real deal and you can absolutely set any parameter(s) to be controlled by the expression pedal.

 

My only gripe is that in my experience (I own both so have been able to A/B them), the helix model transitions to oscillation quicker than the ZVex pedal. On the Helix it can be rather abrupt, where on the original there's a really brilliant fading in of the oscillation over the fading note, with crazy harmonics. I'm going to play with the settings tomorrow though, I'm thinking that the input settings (gate and pad) may dramatically affect that. Maybe I'll try turning those off entirely when using that block...

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oh wow, unbelievable that Line6 managed to simulate it, the fuzz factory had never been turned into a logarithm, I understood it was impossible to simulate its behavior. According to the manual, the Boss Hyper Fuzz was virtualized as well, I'm shocked! not even Boss managed to digitize their own FZ2, not for their FZ5 digital stompbox or their flagship GT100. Thanks for clearing that up.

I'm now interested to know how you made that comparison. The FF is ruined by buffered impedance and I could never place it in the send/return of the HD500X due to its low-Z, the FF oscillator is killed by buffers. I once queried Zachary Zvex himself about a solution to make a custom FF compatible with buffers but he didn't know how, he requested his engineer (a guy named Thomas) to make further tests ...and he couldn't figure it out either. Does the Helix allow send/return jacks to simulate guitar pickup impedance? or did you have to locate your FF before the Helix?

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@arislaf, in your list above, there seem to be two sets of parameters.  In the first set, the parameter types are labeled, and there are 5 parameters, matching the Fuzz Factory Knobs.  In the second set, there are 4 parameters, and they aren't labled.  How do they relate to the Fuzz factory knobs, and what should the last be set too?

Thanks,

 

Tom

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Nevermind, I found the original post and link to translated settings for Helix, care of chrisjw5 (thanks Chris!)

 

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/line6-helix.1586637/page-1352#post-22357441

(I imagine the above link may or may not work depending on your board settings)

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4b55d3er6meyf0k/The%20Fuzz%20Factory%20Setting%20List.pdf?dl=0

 

And in case these links ever go away

in the second set, Volume is assumed to be 10 then Gate, Comp, Drive and Stab values are listed.

 

From the conversion link, to translate ZVex values to Helix  (basically translating clock positions to numeric values from left to right clockwise)

Fuzz    Helix

7:00      1

8:00      2

...

5:00      10

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oh wow, unbelievable that Line6 managed to simulate it, the fuzz factory had never been turned into a logarithm, I understood it was impossible to simulate its behavior.

 

The Fuzz Factory is my favorite distortion pedal, and it's incredibly sensitive to input impedance from your guitar's volume knob. Currently no modeler has any sort of impedance detecting circuit, which would be required to nail that particular behavior.

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How about allowing an expression pedal to control impedence? Besides not needing your hand, or impedence detection, folks with an active buffer in their guitar (like me) or active pickups could use it.

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How about allowing an expression pedal to control impedence? Besides not needing your hand, or impedence detection, folks with an active buffer in their guitar (like me) or active pickups could use it.

 

You can already do that if you want to. You can control the Guitar In-Z parameter in the input block just like any other parameter. So you could set it to be controlled by an expression pedal, and/or you can have it change on a snapshot per snapshot basic if you want.

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Haven't tried that, just assumed it was a few steps, discrete choices, not like continuously turning your guitar's volume knob.

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Finally got around to fooling around with the settings per the manual for the Industrial Fuzz... Wow... much, much happier now and able to make some awesome fuzz sounds...

 

If anyone is interested in an Excel spreadsheet version of the settings, and I consolidated the Helix settings together to make it easier to read... here you go

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mf1kg27cpwn4dlv/Line%206%20Helix%20-%20Industrial%20Fuzz%20%28Factory%29%20Settings%20Sheet.xls?dl=1

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Hah, will check it out when I get a chance, me and that thing are Not Friends at this point. Always seems completely fuzzed out to me, like that's all you'd use it for (except I probably wouldn't) and it's my impression that some people use it for actual music. Also, the oscillator just seems like an unrelated intrusion that doesn't respond to the music at all.

 

So.

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Finally got around to fooling around with the settings per the manual for the Industrial Fuzz... Wow... much, much happier now and able to make some awesome fuzz sounds...

 

If anyone is interested in an Excel spreadsheet version of the settings, and I consolidated the Helix settings together to make it easier to read... here you go

 

Fantastic! Thanks for the spreadsheet. 

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Hah, will check it out when I get a chance, me and that thing are Not Friends at this point. Always seems completely fuzzed out to me, like that's all you'd use it for (except I probably wouldn't) and it's my impression that some people use it for actual music. Also, the oscillator just seems like an unrelated intrusion that doesn't respond to the music at all.

 

So.

 

Make sure to put it first in your chain and adjust impedance to taste, I've seen people say it's around 8K in the real pedal, and I imagine Helix is the same.

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Hook up 6 fuzz factory's in a row.  No 2 will sound alike.  Vex pedals are wildly variable unit to unit.

Source:  I work at a ZVex dealer.  When we used to get shipments of Fuzz Factory's in I used to hook them all up.  The variation unit to unit was insane.

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Hook up 6 fuzz factory's in a row.  No 2 will sound alike.  Vex pedals are wildly variable unit to unit.

 

Source:  I work at a ZVex dealer.  When we used to get shipments of Fuzz Factory's in I used to hook them all up.  The variation unit to unit was insane.

 

Why did you "use to get" Fuzz factorys?  Do they not make them anymore?

Any idea what the actual input impedance of the pedals is/was?

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Why did you "use to get" Fuzz factorys?  Do they not make them anymore?

Any idea what the actual input impedance of the pedals is/was?

They don't really sell anymore so we've had the same ones for an extended length of time.  I know what all of them sound like.  I like Z-Vex stuff but sales wise they've sold down a lot in the last 5 years.  Saturated market as well.

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