Snapshot icon taking up too much text space in scribble strip

[HonestOpinion]

UPDATED (original post did not include the number of characters difference between snapshots and preset/pedal names):

 

Well, I have been using the snapshots for a bit now and they are fantastic, but although that snapshot icon that resembles a camera in the scribble strip icon looks really cool it is taking up way too much space on the scribble strip. The camera icon takes up 6 character spaces. This means that although presets and pedal names can have 16 characters, snapshots are limited to only 10.

 

It would be great if we could reduce the indicator for a snapshot to one character like a block or an asterisk (or even none) and leave the rest of the characters for the snapshot's name. Or maybe just reverse the background and font or something else that would not take up any characters. I am finding I have to abbreviate, or sometimes simply don't have enough characters to descriptively name my snapshots properly. Perhaps we could have a global option that allows those who like it to keep the camera icon and gives back the rest of us the six characters that the camera eats up and provides an alternate way of visually indicating a snapshot.

 

Once you have used your Helix for a couple of days with snapshots you know which footswitches they are, e.g. top row or bottom row, and you really start to want your scribble strip characters back for more descriptive and longer snapshot names.

 

I hope Line6 considers getting rid of the camera icon in the scribble strip in the next firmware release, finds a better yet still obvious way to indicate a snapshot, and rededicates most if not all of those scribble strip characters to useful namespace.

 

Please vote for this idea here: http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Use-less-or-no-scribble-strip-spaces-to-indicate-a-snapshot/831165-23508

[kensington]

Agree. My first thought. Otherwise, I love the snapshots:)

[talwilkins]

Agreed!

Please make a ideascale post for this.

[ricksteruk]

Yes I agree! Make the idea scale and I'll vote too :)

[HonestOpinion]

Agreed!

Please make a ideascale post for this.

 

Done! Please vote for it here: http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Use-less-or-no-scribble-strip-spaces-to-indicate-a-snapshot/831165-23508

[pilottes]

So true!

[phil_m]

You should all count your blessings... Originally, there wasn't going to be naming of snapshots at all. I'm thankful they were able to make that happen. I can understand wanting to have a slightly longer label, but having been playing live with snapshots for several months, I have to say I do appreciate the strong visual cue letting you know you're in snapshot mode. I'm not sure if having two or three extra characters would make a huge difference.

[ricardo_maia]

That was my immediate though when I looked at snapshots - "this icon is taking too much space and there are other ways of letting you know you are in snapshots view". I'm not user design expert (so excuse me if this does make sense to you) but Line6 might consider:

- Having the frame around the whole label

- Invert the label - black characters on white label

- Different color on Mode button led for each active mode (presets, snapshots, stomp, edit)

 

BTW, I also think it would be great to customize the color of each of the snapshots. I'm myopic and the colors on the stomp mode are a major help. I wish I could have that for snapshots.

I also have trouble to see what Expression Pedal is active EXP1 or EXP2 - the label don't help. Please allow to customize the label and find a more visible way to show which one is active (e.g. invert the colors of the active one).

[PeterHamm]

For many (most?) of us, we need to know at a glance as we look down what everything is, and having that snapshot icon right there makes it easy to know what you're looking at without thinking.

Sorry, I think it was designed perfectly.

[BigRalphN]

I am on the side of leaving it as is. I need lager cues to see things. With weak vision it is a must. My idea would be to shorten your names!

[HonestOpinion]

That was my immediate though when I looked at snapshots - "this icon is taking too much space and there are other ways of letting you know you are in snapshots view". I'm not user design expert (so excuse me if this does make sense to you) but Line6 might consider:

- Having the frame around the whole label

- Invert the label - black characters on white label

- Different color on Mode button led for each active mode (presets, snapshots, stomp, edit)

 

BTW, I also think it would be great to customize the color of each of the snapshots. I'm myopic and the colors on the stomp mode are a major help. I wish I could have that for snapshots.

I also have trouble to see what Expression Pedal is active EXP1 or EXP2 - the label don't help. Please allow to customize the label and find a more visible way to show which one is active (e.g. invert the colors of the active one).

 

I agree with every point made here, I have asked for improvements to expression pedal labeling in Ideascale as well.  To those who like the camera icon because it easily differentiates a snapshot, I get it, and agree it is valuable to be able to easily tell the difference, even at a distance with old or poor eyesight. However, the ideas in ricardo_maia's post, as well as other methods, could easily accomplish the same thing without the loss of critical characters in the namespace. Pardon the pun but it simply seems myopic to me to defend this waste of space in the snapshot scribble strip.

[BigRalphN]

I agree with every point made here, I have asked for improvements to expression pedal labeling in Ideascale as well.  To those who like the camera icon because it easily differentiates a snapshot, I get it, and agree it is valuable to be able to easily tell the difference, even at a distance with old or poor eyesight. However, the ideas in ricardo_maia's post, as well as other methods, could easily accomplish the same thing without the loss of critical characters in the namespace. Pardon the pun but it simply seems myopic to me to defend this waste of space in the snapshot scribble strip.

I will sell my Helix if it changes!!!!

 

(Sarcastic humor attempt).

[HonestOpinion]

I will sell my Helix if it changes!!!!

 

(Sarcastic humor attempt).

 

LOL, hopefully at a substantial discount in which case I will be happy to take it off your hands.  I will also keep in mind that you may easily mistake a $1 bill for a $100.  :P

[HonestOpinion]

You should all count your blessings... Originally, there wasn't going to be naming of snapshots at all. I'm thankful they were able to make that happen. I can understand wanting to have a slightly longer label, but having been playing live with snapshots for several months, I have to say I do appreciate the strong visual cue letting you know you're in snapshot mode. I'm not sure if having two or three extra characters would make a huge difference.

The difference between the number of characters between snapshot and preset names is six characters, not a couple. Presets can have 16 characters, snapshots only 10. That extra six characters is more than enough to make a significant difference in how meaningful a snapshot name can be and how well it can indicate its contents. So the camera icon is taking up a substantial amount of space.

 

Yes, naming snapshots is a wonderful capability and I am happy it is there but there are other less invasive ways to indicate that you are looking at a snapshot. Asking me to "count my blessings" for a feature that could bear improvement could apply to anything on the Helix. They could have given us only 10 characters and a huge icon to name a preset or a pedal and I would still have suggested adding the characters back for more useful information in the scribble strip.

 

My final question would be, didn't you beta testers notice the loss of characters during the beta period? You say you have been "playing with the snapshots for months". Didn't any of the beta testers express this concern with the loss of characters in the scribble strip to the icon? I have only been using snapshots for a few days and I can see a better method could have been used as well as the people who have chimed in agreeing (I am sure there will be more). Seems like this could have been headed off at the pass. Again, not trying to be critical of a monumental update and a paradigm shift in functionality, thank you Line6, just saying there is a better way to implement this aspect of the snapshots. It seems kind of self-evident, not sure I quite get the pushback. I am not disagreeing with the goal of easily visually differentiating snapshots, just saying Line6 could probably find a way that doesn't eat up the scribble strip.

 

Lastly I would say that Line6 has repeatedly pointed out that the Helix is targeted at the "Pro" market. That market values form as well as function and as I said, the camera icon looks cool, but when push comes to shove I think most musicians would prefer a way of doing things that gives them a clear visual cue as to what they are looking at and also allows as descriptive a namespace as possible. Perhaps there could be a global option to allow those who like it to keep the camera icon and for those who want the extra six characters as well as an alternate way of indicating snapshots. That would probably be ideal for everyone.

[klangmaler]

 

...far too big, indeed...

[ricksteruk]

On a similar vein.. in Stomp mode how can you tell if your Stomp footswitch is in Latching Mode or in Momentary mode?

 

Option 1) Just remember what your Scribble Strip labelled "SOLO with DELAY" will do

Option 2) Put a large icon on to show that it's in Momentary (or Latching mode!)

 

Line 6 went with option 1 for the Stomp switch, but went with option 2 for the Snapshots...

 

Personally I would like some visual cue that my stomp is gonna be momentary.. but I usually can remember which ones I set that up on, so I wouldn't want to lose 6 characters from the name.

 

Actually, I really don't see why the Snap Icon is needed at all under the current system.   If you could set up a mixture of stomps and snaps freely on your Helix with say 2 snaps and 2 stomps on the bottom row, then perhaps it might be useful.  But as we have to set it up with either 8 snaps, or the snaps on the top or bottom row - it's not that hard to differentiate between presets and snaps or stomps anyway - presets are obvious as they are called "02B Back in Black" for example... who could ever mistake that for a stomp or a snap?  And as for SNAPS and STOMPS - they are always in exactly the same place.  Your Snaps will always be the top row if that's what you've got in your global.  Why do we need an icon for that?

[phil_m]

The difference between the number of characters between snapshot and preset names is six characters, not a couple. Presets can have 16 characters, snapshots only 10. That extra six characters is more than enough to make a significant difference in how meaningful a snapshot name can be and how well it can indicate its contents. So the camera icon is taking up a substantial amount of space.

 

Yes, naming snapshots is a wonderful capability and I am happy it is there but there are other less invasive ways to indicate that you are looking at a snapshot. Asking me to "count my blessings" for a feature that could bear improvement could apply to anything on the Helix. They could have given us only 10 characters and a huge icon to name a preset or a pedal and I would still have suggested adding the characters back for more useful information in the scribble strip.

 

My final question would be, didn't you beta testers notice the loss of characters during the beta period? You say you have been "playing with the snapshots for months".  Didn't any of the beta testers express this concern with the loss of characters in the scribble strip to the icon? I have only been using snapshots for a few days and I can see a better method could have been used as well as the people who have chimed in agreeing (I am sure there will be more). Seems like this could have been headed off at the pass. Again, not trying to be critical of a monumental update and a paradigm shift in functionality, thank you Line6, just saying there is a better way to implement this aspect of the snapshots. It seems kind of self-evident, not sure I quite get the pushback. I am not disagreeing with the goal of easily visually differentiating snapshots, just saying Line6 could probably find a way that doesn't eat up the scribble strip.

 

Lastly I would say that Line6 has repeatedly pointed out that the Helix is targeted at the "Pro" market.  That market values form as well as function and as I said, the camera icon looks cool, but when push comes to shove I think most musicians would prefer a way of doing things that gives them a clear visual cue as to what they are looking at and also allows as descriptive a namespace as possible.

 

Yes, I was a beta tester, and, no, I never brought that up. First of all, like I said, I knew originally the plan was no nameable snapshots. I don't even know if I should have revealed that detail, so I don't want to say anything else regarding the process. I'm sure DI can chime in if he wants. The only I would say is that when it comes to stuff like this where it seems like there's a constraint that seems like it shouldn't be there, there is usually some reason behind it. I believe I know what's driving this decision, but it's not really my place to say what that is (because I'm not 100% sure)... Sorry, not trying to play dumb. I'm not overly attached to the camera icon, although, I do like having a strong visual cue as far as what mode I'm in.

[HonestOpinion]

Yes, I was a beta tester, and, no, I never brought that up. First of all, like I said, I knew originally the plan was no nameable snapshots. I don't even know if I should have revealed that detail, so I don't want to say anything else regarding the process. I'm sure DI can chime in if he wants. The only I would say is that when it comes to stuff like this where it seems like there's a constraint that seems like it shouldn't be there, there is usually some reason behind it. I believe I know what's driving this decision, but it's not really my place to say what that is (because I'm not 100% sure)... Sorry, not trying to play dumb. I'm not overly attached to the camera icon, although, I do like having a strong visual cue as far as what mode I'm in.

 

I think I get it Phil_m, thanks for chiming in. It had not occurred to me that there might be some technical consideration that is not evident to us. If it was a matter of the icon saving on critical memory  (although I would have thought this would take up more memory) or reducing snapshot switching latency, or some other technically driven imperative then I guess this decision makes sense even if we are not privy to what drove it. If that is the case I hope they can figure a way around it but I will certainly understand if not.

[PeterHamm]

It might not be technical, it might be that their research showed what most musicians would benefit from, and I think it's probably not a great idea to accommodate every piece of customizability that every single person wants.

But who knows...?

[HonestOpinion]

It might not be technical, it might be that their research showed what most musicians would benefit from, and I think it's probably not a great idea to accommodate every piece of customizability that every single person wants.

 

But who knows...?

 

If it is not a technical requirement then we should change it or offer an option. Research would show that most musicians would benefit from a clear visual cue but not that it needs to be a giant space eating icon, there is more than one way to skin a cat. We can have both if it is not a technical limitation, a clear visual cue and a longer namespace.

[BigRalphN]

If it is not a technical requirement then we should change it or offer an option. Research would show that most musicians would benefit from a clear visual cue but not that it needs to be a giant space eating icon, there is more than one way to skin a cat. We can have both if it is not a technical limitation, a clear visual cue and a longer namespace.

I didn't want to get into an argument here but I honestly would not want change. None of the solutions mentioned would help me in any way. Different colors sound confuse me. I probably could not see a frame. Inversion would look weird and annoying since it doesn't fit I with the rest of the scheme. I am not against change but I would ant something every bit as visible and it might not be smaller. I think that is what Peter was getting at. There are so many different opinions out there that sometimes things just need to be left alone. That said I am open to ideas. For me things would just be single word short labels that make sense anyway.

[frodebro]

I've been dealing with multieffects processors since the late eighties, and have gotten pretty good at coming up with names that let me know what the preset is without needing all that many characters.  Abbreviations, "code" letters, etc.  Of all the things I'm interested in seeing in the future of the Helix, the number of characters in the scribble strips is pretty low on my own personal list.

[HonestOpinion]

I've been dealing with multieffects processors since the late eighties, and have gotten pretty good at coming up with names that let me know what the preset is without needing all that many characters.  Abbreviations, "code" letters, etc.  Of all the things I'm interested in seeing in the future of the Helix, the number of characters in the scribble strips is pretty low on my own personal list.

 

That is the whole point, this is not the late eighties and we have these scribble strips with a ton of real estate. I don't need to have a decoder ring and a stenographer to figure out what my snapshot shorthand with a ton of possible parameter changes, means. Why squander all that abundant namespace? I agree this is not near the top of my list but just seems like a relatively easy change to make (easy to say :) ), not sure why it was done this way in the first place.

[HonestOpinion]

I didn't want to get into an argument here but I honestly would not want change. None of the solutions mentioned would help me in any way. Different colors sound confuse me. I probably could not see a frame. Inversion would look weird and annoying since it doesn't fit I with the rest of the scheme. I am not against change but I would ant something every bit as visible and it might not be smaller. I think that is what Peter was getting at. There are so many different opinions out there that sometimes things just need to be left alone. That said I am open to ideas. For me things would just be single word short labels that make sense anyway.

 

The options I proposed could leave it as is for those who like it the way it stands. I do try to keep names short where possible but also like the flexibility that 16 characters offers for more complex presets or snapshots that gain from a more descriptive name. Seems like both camps could have their preference here. Just the same way that I would never insist that everyone should have their snapshots on the top row, just because I prefer them there. Options are good! Anyway, just my two cents worth and fairly low on the importance meter as frodebro pointed out.

[ryanclark1]

I agree. It would be nice if we had an option to not show the camera at all or at least a much smaller icon. If we are in snapshot mode we already know which buttons we have configured to be snapshots.

[davidb7170]

I don't have a problem with it as it is.

 

Dave

[kensington]

Some like it as it is, some would like to have the icon removed/smaller.
It's not a biggie, so no need to "count your blessings" and all that.
It's a simple request, and probably very easy to fix in a future update.
No one would ever be unsure if they are in snapshot mode or stompbox mode.

Snaps would be named typically "clean", "solo" etc....and stomps would have "delay", chorus" etc.
So I appreciate that someone brought it up.

[datacommando]

Console tape and a sharpie!

 

 

 

A simple solution - a little old skool, but it works for me ;)

[BigRalphN]

The options I proposed could leave it as is for those who like it the way it stands. I do try to keep names short where possible but also like the flexibility that 16 characters offers for more complex presets or snapshots that gain from a more descriptive name. Seems like both camps could have their preference here. Just the same way that I would never insist that everyone should have their snapshots on the top row, just because I prefer them there. Options are good! Anyway, just my two cents worth and fairly low on the importance meter as frodebro pointed out.

I got ya man! I understand your points. I didn't want things to sound like an attack. Sometimes it is hard to get things across in writing. I thought about a camera on or off setting or even just one that switches between the camera and an asterisk. The only problem is what seems like a little easy change to us could be a major rewrite to the programmers or not possible at all. I have gotten touchy about things involving vision since I got this disease. Nothing pisses me off more than opening up something new and then finding a little two inch by two inch folded piece of paper that has instructions in five languages on that tiny lollipop paper. There is absolutely no way I can read them without a strong magnifying glass.

 

On a side note I want to thank Line 6 fir the wonderful LARGE display and easy to read items across the board. I can actually read very thing although I do need to get close for some things (blurred vision reading at a distance). And scribble strips are just super nice. As some know I also have an AX 8. In the manual they call it a brilliant three color LCD display. I am not sure how it is brilliant. It is hard to see n a lit stage. Everything is small. Things that are large only get three character (like the blocks ...delay becomes DLY). I actually hav to get down on m knees on the stage to read it. Now I realize I have poor vision but with my Helix I can sit in my stool ( I get to use a stool since I have other issues at times) and see things. The AX8 a great device as well. A lot of the fighting between sides is ridiculous as it is all in what you need it prefer. But the display is just bad on the AX8. It is line something from 1996 instead of 2016. Even honest people within the AX community acknowledge this.

[HonestOpinion]

I got ya man! I understand your points. I didn't want things to sound like an attack. Sometimes it is hard to get things across in writing. I thought about a camera on or off setting or even just one that switches between the camera and an asterisk. The only problem is what seems like a little easy change to us could be a major rewrite to the programmers or not possible at all. I have gotten touchy about things involving vision since I got this disease. Nothing pisses me off more than opening up something new and then finding a little two inch by two inch folded piece of paper that has instructions in five languages on that tiny lollipop paper. There is absolutely no way I can read them without a strong magnifying glass.

 

On a side note I want to thank Line 6 fir the wonderful LARGE display and easy to read items across the board. I can actually read very thing although I do need to get close for some things (blurred vision reading at a distance). And scribble strips are just super nice. As some know I also have an AX 8. In the manual they call it a brilliant three color LCD display. I am not sure how it is brilliant. It is hard to see n a lit stage. Everything is small. Things that are large only get three character (like the blocks ...delay becomes DLY). I actually hav to get down on m knees on the stage to read it. Now I realize I have poor vision but with my Helix I can sit in my stool ( I get to use a stool since I have other issues at times) and see things. The AX8 a great device as well. A lot of the fighting between sides is ridiculous as it is all in what you need it prefer. But the display is just bad on the AX8. It is line something from 1996 instead of 2016. Even honest people within the AX community acknowledge this.

 

I'm with you on the large display thing. My vision is not the greatest either and I need a clearly visible screen (and I hate those tiny printed instructions too). I'm all for keeping visual cues easy to see from a standing position.  I just think there is probably an alternative way to clearly indicate a snapshot without using 6 characters.

[HonestOpinion]

Console tape and a sharpie!

 

sharpie-and-tape.jpg

 

A simple solution - a little old skool, but it works for me ;)

 

No more console tape for me! Scribble strips all the way!

[mjorden]

So we have been begging for scene functionality since Helix was released and now we are going to fuss over 6 characters?  Can't we just be happy for snapshots??  I am!!

[HonestOpinion]

So we have been begging for scene functionality since Helix was released and now we are going to fuss over 6 characters? Can't we just be happy for snapshots?? I am!!

You are happy about snapshots and so is everyone else, we are all happy to see them. I would go so far as to say ecstatic. That is not the point. Several of my other posts describe the overall implementation of snapshots as inspired.  The fact that we are making a request about a relatively small issue like labeling is a tribute to what a great job L6 did with snapshots.  We are not making a "fuss", six characters would be a 60% increase in the current namespace and could make a meaningful difference in labeling. No one here is going to sell their Helix if they don't remove the camera icon. We are just expressing a preference for that space to be used differently. I am sure there will be other modifications suggested on snapshot implementation as well, as a matter of fact there already are. Just normal feedback from the users on a new feature (snapshots) here, no need to berate us.

[mjorden]

#snaplivesmatter

[RRMark]

Purely for balance of opinion and not to disregard other's wishes, I like it just how it is for quick reference in the heat of battle.

[musiclover7]

I like it as is. Maybe in a future release they shrink the camera icon to just take up 4 char, giving us 12, but I am good either way. I don't need elaborate names though for my snaps. I use abbreviation, like LD for lead etc, which has been enough so far. As long as you can differentiate, that is the main thing.

[a2dconverterguy]

Hey Guys, 

 

I know that the camera shape is 'sexy' but would a circle be enough to get a few characters back?

 

 

Seeya

 

Joe

[BigRalphN]

Hey Guys,

 

I know that the camera shape is 'sexy' but would a circle be enough to get a few characters back?

 

 

Seeya

 

Joe

Still like the camera and the size.

[theElevators]

I would invert the colors when the snapshot is selected as well. 

[HonestOpinion]

On 11/30/2020 at 4:34 PM, theElevators said:

I would invert the colors when the snapshot is selected as well. 

 

LOL, thanks for reviving this topic. I think it is still relevant but I doubt it will ever change.  When snapshots were first released, at times I wanted to use more descriptive names, e.g. "DistFlangWahComp" but by this time the character limit has pretty much conditioned me to use "Clean", "Crunch", "Lead", "Intro", "Verse", etc. and that is about it. For many(most?) snapshots the current limit(10) is perfectly adequate. Would still be nice to have the six extra characters(would give us 16) that the camera icon eats up but at this point the implementation feels pretty baked in. 

 

As @ricksteruk so presciently alluded to back in 2016, now that snapshots can be randomly mixed in with stomps or presets on the footswitches there would be an even greater need than previously for a visually distinct way to spot them once the camera icon was removed. Would love to see it done but it would require some thought as to the best implementation.  I would still leave the camera icon as an option 'cos people have grown up with it by now and learned to love 'em. After all these years, still low on my list of priorities but if it required minimal coding effort I would still vote for changing it. To me the camera icon would be like attaching a disco ball to my steering wheel. Looks kind of interesting and makes it really obvious where the steering wheel is but do I really need it obscuring the dashboard and my vision through the windshield :-)