Please ensure Javascript is enabled for purposes of website accessibility Jump to content

Hd500x Has The Midi Implementation Been Improved?


snegdirb
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi everyone

I have searched this forum to see if anyone has tested the MIDI implementation on the HD500X and can't seem to find anything.

 

In the blurb it says:

"The MIDI I/O can turn the POD HD500X into a fully assignable MIDI controller, so you can use the foot switches and expression pedal to control all kinds of external hardware and software"

 

Is this actually true? The HD500 would only allow us to step through MIDI program changes sequentially on another device.

Does the HD500X allow us finally to map to other devices? 

 

Thanks for any input

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I posted a similar question several days ago and got no response, which I found odd. This is midi 101, and I'd be shocked if Line 6 overlooked this very basic function. I followed the advanced manual to the letter with regard to midi program change but it would not map - just follows sequentially no matter what program change info I enter. I got Line 6 tech support on the phone and spoke to a rather confused person who told me that "Line 6 is a very small company and there is no one here who is capable of answering your question - I suggest you refer to the Pod HD 500x Advanced Manual, or try the forums". To get that kind of response was, to say the least, a bit disappointing. I like the 500x, but because of lack of FX spillover I must use my Strymon Timeline and a Reverb unit after the output of the Pod. Proper functioning Midi mapping is needed badly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Stevie

Thanks for posting. I'm very disappointed to hear this. 
For me this is a deal breaker because I'm running an Eventide Time Factor and Space - I really need to be able to map patches.

 I don't understand how they can say this (from the Line 6 website "Overview"): 

 

It’s a fully assignable MIDI controller, so you can use the footswitches and expression pedal to control all kinds of external hardware and software

 

If what you say is true then this is completely misleading!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't understand how they can say this (from the Line 6 website "Overview"): 

 

It’s a fully assignable MIDI controller, so you can use the footswitches and expression pedal to control all kinds of external hardware and software

 

If what you say is true then this is completely misleading!

They can say it because it's true...

 

What they're not saying is that you can change the HD500X's MIDI mapping for calling up its own patches and effects. Those are all described in the Advanced Guide. What you can do is assign MIDI commands to the footwitches and expression pedal within the presets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is just semantics - you would expect that it could control and map all its own functions.

 

Its really not a "fully assignable MIDI controller" until it can actually interface with other devices 

like every reasonable synth has been able to do since the 1980's.

That was the whole idea behind the MIDI protocol and the reason it was standardized - so that devices could "talk"

to each other and you could harness that power and recall it night after night when you played.

 

The manual should state that the HD500 has a limited ability to interface with other devices vis MIDI.

It would at least be more honest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

no... a controller is a controller...

the ability to be controlled is something different... 

(and it can be controlled just not configured to your desire)

my gift to you: http://www.merriam-webster.com/

 

This is just semantics - you would expect that it could control and map all its own functions.

 

Its really not a "fully assignable MIDI controller" until it can actually interface with other devices 

like every reasonable synth has been able to do since the 1980's.

That was the whole idea behind the MIDI protocol and the reason it was standardized - so that devices could "talk"

to each other and you could harness that power and recall it night after night when you played.

 

The manual should state that the HD500 has a limited ability to interface with other devices vis MIDI.

It would at least be more honest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We're off track here with the dictionary silliness.

While a controller is certainly a controller the bottom line is this:

My original question was: has the MIDI implementation been improved?

 

The answer is no.

 

To those of us who were hoping that that the HD500 would finally be able to control

external devices this is a big disappointment.

I had been hoping to buy in to the eco-system - Tyler variax and the HD500, 

but I can't do that if it has to stand on its own - I need it to play with well with others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

no... a controller is a controller...

the ability to be controlled is something different... 

(and it can be controlled just not configured to your desire)

my gift to you: http://www.merriam-webster.com/

 

Your definition is correct, however it is described as a FULLY assignable MIDI controller which would indicate both the internal MIDI and any external MIDI devices.  Since it only does this internally then it is only a PARTIALLY assignable MIDI controller.  It IS a FULLY assignable INTERNAL MIDI controller.  Just in the interest of being accurate.  ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the internal midi allows it to be midi controlled... and has nothing to do with its ability to act as a controller.

 

not like any of those details matter though... simply put it is what it is... and not always what we want it to be.

 

Your definition is correct, however it is described as a FULLY assignable MIDI controller which would indicate both the internal MIDI and any external MIDI devices.  Since it only does this internally then it is only a PARTIALLY assignable MIDI controller.  It IS a FULLY assignable INTERNAL MIDI controller.  Just in the interest of being accurate.  ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the internal midi allows it to be midi controlled... and has nothing to do with its ability to act as a controller.

 

not like any of those details matter though... simply put it is what it is... and not always what we want it to be.

 

It is what it is but isn't as described.  A FULLY assignable MIDI controller i.e controls other devices as well which, to my understanding, is what was being talked about and it doesn't FULLY do.  The description is not about what it can be controlled by.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A FULLY assignable MIDI controller i.e controls other devices as well which, to my understanding, is what was being talked about and it doesn't FULLY do.

 

It is fully assignable in the sense that can assign any MIDI command to any footswitch in any preset, so it can be pretty powerful as a controller. There are actually a good number of people using the HD500 as a controller for the Axe FX. I guess I don't see what the controversy is. It is a configurable controller even if it doesn't behave in the way some people think it should.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use the HD500 as a MIDI controller for PC on Keyboards, CC for Keyboard Volume and for Notes (not enough hands for guitar and keyboard at the same time)

 

It is limited in that you can't define an automatic Patch Change to sync with HD Patch Change (it is fixed at sending the HD500 Patch), but if you have an HD500 Patch defined you can Patch Change on any channel by pressing the buttons - for example if you have an additional effects processor in the Loop. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is fully assignable in the sense that can assign any MIDI command to any footswitch in any preset, so it can be pretty powerful as a controller. There are actually a good number of people using the HD500 as a controller for the Axe FX. I guess I don't see what the controversy is. It is a configurable controller even if it doesn't behave in the way some people think it should.

 

 

I use the HD500 as a MIDI controller for PC on Keyboards, CC for Keyboard Volume and for Notes (not enough hands for guitar and keyboard at the same time)

 

It is limited in that you can't define an automatic Patch Change to sync with HD Patch Change (it is fixed at sending the HD500 Patch), but if you have an HD500 Patch defined you can Patch Change on any channel by pressing the buttons - for example if you have an additional effects processor in the Loop. 

 

The inability to map a HD Patch change to any patch change is what originally was brought up.  The controversy is whether "FULLY assignable" is an accurate description.  I don't believe it is since without this ability the word FULLY is inaccurate.  It is only "partially" or more accurately "ALMOST fully" assignable. Given the description, the original poster wanted to make sure that he wasn't missing something since the way he read (and the way I read) the "fully assignable" would be there are no limits and clearly there is one.  No big deal. No egos hurt.  Not upset in anyway.  Mostly a disagreement with the accuracy of the terms.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

I think the midi controls on the 500 are really done quite well. Although to use it as only a midi controller requires some set up of patches regardless, and there are limitations. I do wish it had a "midi controller" mode. The software makes set up quite easy compared to what I see in the manuals of most dedicated controllers. I like that you can send different types of messages with one button.

 

My question... Is there an easier / better dedicated midi controller out there at this price point?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what I remember, when I had my 500 (I have a new 500X)...you can assign midi CC's and program changes on the bottom row (where the 4 pod presets are)...ONLY if you're in pedal board mode.  It didn't have the capability to be in preset mode...and have a pod preset and a midi assignment to another device (LAAAAAME).  It misleads you...cuz the screens to program it are in there...it just doesn't work in POD preset mode.  So that means in pedalboard mode...you're basically using one preset in the POD with instant access on/off assignments with midi assignments to another device.  LAAAME.  Not sure why this was or is...but it is.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what I remember, when I had my 500 (I have a new 500X)...you can assign midi CC's and program changes on the bottom row (where the 4 pod presets are)...ONLY if you're in pedal board mode.  It didn't have the capability to be in preset mode...and have a pod preset and a midi assignment to another device (LAAAAAME).  It misleads you...cuz the screens to program it are in there...it just doesn't work in POD preset mode.  So that means in pedalboard mode...you're basically using one preset in the POD with instant access on/off assignments with midi assignments to another device.  LAAAME.  Not sure why this was or is...but it is.

 

 

I don't see how it could work differently... When you're in preset mode, if you hit one of the 4 lower buttons, you're telling the device to switch to another preset. I suppose they could have it so it could do both, but I would think that would get a bit confusing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The trick is to use the "Secret MIDI Controller" Karl.... ;)

 

All Weathermen are accurate, few are precise...My SPX90 has PC mapping...I have never understood why Line 6 has never bothered to implement a feature that has been pretty much a standard since the 1980s...wierd...I have biotched about this more times that I can count....but might as well pile on... :o

Link to comment
Share on other sites

PC mapping would be great. Although if you have an HD500X then we're saying that it's responding to changes from ANOTHER unit....in which case, it's not the controller.  My GT-10/100 has PC mapping that never gets used because it's more important, to me, that the downstream units have PC mapping instead.  Of course, PC mapping isn't a controller function anyway.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would be nice to be able to define a single PC map - as a Patch attribute.  What is currently output is fixed, but the problem is that if you connect up another unit such as a M13 then it has 48 "Scenes" (=Patches, split into 4 Folders or 12 each, the HD500 has 16 Banks of 4 Patches).  If you want the M13 to extend the HD500 power by offloading some of the effects onto the M13 which is connected through the Effects Loop, you obviously connect the MIDI out from the HD500 into the MIDI in on the M13, so magically because there is nothing you can set on either device (other than channel), it appears to work:

 

Now lets test it...

 

HD500 Bank 1, Patch 1 => Folder 1, Scene 1

HD500 Bank 1, Patch 2 => Folder 1, Scene 2

....

HD500 Bank 2, Patch 1 => Folder 1, Scene 5

...

HD500 Bank 11, Patch 1 => Folder 4, Scene 5

 
HD500 Bank 15, Patch 3 => ???? 
 
Once you get past Bank 12 Patch 4 on the HD500 there is no equivalent on the M13, so you can't really use those higher Banks on the HD500, and whatever you do don't copy an HD500 patch to another location and expect it to work.
 
But what if you didn't want to set up 48 separate Patches on the M13?  What if you sensibly wanted 3 or 4 which consist of Reverb and a few other like Delay and Chorus with some minor variations.  
 
You then want to assign one of these 4 Scenes on the M13 to each of your HD500 patches.... well you can do this, but the Line 6 MIDI set-up won't let you change what is output by the HD500 as a Patch Change, so tough.
 
The best that you can do is to dedicate a pedal on the HD500 to transmit the required Program Change when you press it, and to change the channel on one or other of the units to prevent the automatic changing.  But this means two actions when what you really wanted was a single button press.
 
All that is needed for this to work properly is to be able to define what Program Change message is transmitted when the HD500 Patch is changed.  Shouldn't be that hard to achieve should it?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Hi, I have a big problem with midi out, don't know if anyone else had the same problem.

I observed that pod hd send a progr change fixed with every switch ( bank 1 A PrCh !, bank 1 B PrCh 2..etc)

it's a problem cause it interferes with the midi data...I'm trying to set up the pod with a glab looper and a randall rm 100...

no way now!!!!!   (  until december everythin was finewith the randall, don't know why now it doesn't control the head)

sorry for my english..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

It's definitely not "fully assignable". It is however, assignable if you play by L6 rules. I have my 500X linked to a H9 that I run in the FX loop just as ReWolf48 has described with his M13. I doubt that I would ever have more that 10 "working" presets on the H9. So, that being said, I run my 500X in "preset mode ( A B C D )". The buttons are mapped as ReWolf described. I wanted the proper patch to be selected on the H9 as soon as I stepped on the appropriate preset button. The only way you can assign a midi command to the FX Loop is to use up one of your available effect buttons, 5, 6, 7, 8 or Toe. If you save the HD patch with the FX Loop "on", it does not send the corresponding midi command, even though the switch is lit showing that it is active, when you activate that preset. My work around was to set up the H9 so that the user preset I wanted on the FX Loop was in the correct spot so that the midi commands you are forced to send from the 500X call the proper patch. In my case, many of the user presets on the H9 are now duplicates. If you are in pedal board mode, forget it. The only way you are going to get your midi assignment sent is if you step on the button you have assigned to your FX Loop. Even if you have saved the preset with the FX Loop "on". This was all very confusing at first and I have a lot of experience with midi. I went back and forth several times with L6 support not even knowing that this was the behavior of the unit. In most devices I have worked with midi, if you load a patch, and the light is on, the command is sent as soon as it is activated.

 

It is fully assignable in the sense that can assign any MIDI command to any footswitch in any preset, so it can be pretty powerful as a controller. There are actually a good number of people using the HD500 as a controller for the Axe FX. I guess I don't see what the controversy is. It is a configurable controller even if it doesn't behave in the way some people think it should.

 

 

It would be nice to be able to define a single PC map - as a Patch attribute.  What is currently output is fixed, but the problem is that if you connect up another unit such as a M13 then it has 48 "Scenes" (=Patches, split into 4 Folders or 12 each, the HD500 has 16 Banks of 4 Patches).  If you want the M13 to extend the HD500 power by offloading some of the effects onto the M13 which is connected through the Effects Loop, you obviously connect the MIDI out from the HD500 into the MIDI in on the M13, so magically because there is nothing you can set on either device (other than channel), it appears to work:

 

Now lets test it...

 

HD500 Bank 1, Patch 1 => Folder 1, Scene 1

HD500 Bank 1, Patch 2 => Folder 1, Scene 2

....

HD500 Bank 2, Patch 1 => Folder 1, Scene 5

...

HD500 Bank 11, Patch 1 => Folder 4, Scene 5

 
HD500 Bank 15, Patch 3 => ???? 
 
Once you get past Bank 12 Patch 4 on the HD500 there is no equivalent on the M13, so you can't really use those higher Banks on the HD500, and whatever you do don't copy an HD500 patch to another location and expect it to work.
 
But what if you didn't want to set up 48 separate Patches on the M13?  What if you sensibly wanted 3 or 4 which consist of Reverb and a few other like Delay and Chorus with some minor variations.  
 
You then want to assign one of these 4 Scenes on the M13 to each of your HD500 patches.... well you can do this, but the Line 6 MIDI set-up won't let you change what is output by the HD500 as a Patch Change, so tough.
 
The best that you can do is to dedicate a pedal on the HD500 to transmit the required Program Change when you press it, and to change the channel on one or other of the units to prevent the automatic changing.  But this means two actions when what you really wanted was a single button press.
 
All that is needed for this to work properly is to be able to define what Program Change message is transmitted when the HD500 Patch is changed.  Shouldn't be that hard to achieve should it?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

please

can you anyone confirm what bvaladez74 said, that the footswitch midi capability is only working when you are in FS5-8/pedalboard mode?

 

To be clear does it mean that even the four UPPER footswitches don't send any midi data while in ABCD/preset mode?

 

that would be weird (I'm buying an external midi controllable multifx to control it in ABCD mode from the pod with MIDI PC and MIDI CC so this info canmake me change idea!!)

 

the manual says <<footswitches FS5 - FS8 will only transmit your configured MIDI assignments when their Setup option is set to the FS5 - FS8 “Pedalboard Modeâ€>>

and this seems obvious since FS5-8 are in ABCD mode, but what about FS1-4?

 

by the way this is a FULLY configurable foot controller for a smaller price:

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/music-production/midi-controllers/mfc10/

 

maybe Helix will include something good from yamaha ;)

 

thanks for any info

Lorenzo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...