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Shrednoise321

Someone help a guy out trying to achieve djent tone!!!!!

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I have had my Helix since it's release and have tried everything to create a djent tone with it. I've checked out the presets and they are missing something. I've tried some on customtone but its not quite wha t I'm looking for. I am new to the "tone" of it and any all help would be greatly appreciated. I am using a schecter damien elite 7 string. Thinking about switching the pickups. Since it has an 81/85 set I was thinking about puting the 85 in the bridge. That goes into my helix. Helix into an EV frfr powered speaker. Whew!!! Sorry for the long post. I thought I would be as detailed as possible so I could get some help.

 

Thanks guys!!!

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To be honest, trying to describe getting the tone someone is specifically looking for through a forum, is probably akin to trying to direct someone through performing a haircut they'll like over the phone. Minimal success.

 

I, like most, found the factory presets as little uninspiring (I will say, I think some in the 2.0 upgrade seem way more quality). On the other hand, I downloaded maybe the top 50 most popular on Customtone and most are just utter quality to my ears. There's also the Glenn Delaune gems, and he does an amazing job at going through the building process.

 

But ultimately, nobody but your own ears, guided by your own taste, in the same room as your own guitar and amp will probably ever hit the nail 

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I'm more or less trying to see if someone could help me get in the ballpark and I will tweak from there. I do agree with you though.

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  • First, I would try to specifically define what you're looking for...
  • Pick out some examples as reference points
  • Research the gear (especially the amp/cab) used to create those "reference" sounds
  • Now, setup the Helix to mimic that gear

I'd start with one of the higher-gain amps... and pair that with a cab (onboard or IR) that puts the sound in the ballpark.

Changing the mic/distance can help further "dial-in" the sound... as can high-pass and low-pass filters.

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Watch some of the Helix videos.  There are some very good ones about how to build a very decent sounding patch.

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I have some 3 sigma IRs. I have the mesa oversized, evh, ubercab. Either using a mesa, engl, 5150. Examples I would say messhuggah, periphery, animals as leaders. Good, tight, grinding rhythm tone.

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A lot of what I'm trying to achieve use mesa and the engl models on the line 6 products. I've been all over YouTube. If you could post links to said videos that would be rad!!

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A lot of what I'm trying to achieve use mesa and the engl models on the line 6 products. I've been all over YouTube. If you could post links to said videos that would be rad!!

 

Try the PV Panama (5150 model) with the presence at around 7. German Ubersonic, Cali Rectifire, and Line 6 Fatality are good ones too.

 

Also try a the 112 Dynamic mic on a good V30 Helix guitar cab like the 412 Uber V30.  It works well mixed with another mic too in a Helix Dual Cab block.   The D112 on a Mesa 412 is mean sounding and great for heavy tones. I'm surprised there aren't more pro IR's of it.

 

I have the 3sigma IR's of Mesa, Bogner, Engl, and Friedman cabs and they weren't doing it for me. I actually just made a few AKG D112 IR's of my Mesa Recto 212 cab and just tried them for djent tones...they sound great.

 

https://www.dropbox....sHCL2DAVba?dl=0

 

MesRec212_L6SV_D112_1oa.wav

MesRec212_L6SV_D112_2oa.wav (my fav)

MesRec212_L6SV_D112_3oa.wav

 

 

Mic shootout of a Mesa 412 with SM57 vs D112. This was my inspiration to use the mic for my IR's.

 

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Oh, and you might want to add something more descript like "djent tone" to the title of this post. There arent very many posts about djent tones.

 

I glazed right by it several times.

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There is a button to "Use Full Editor" and then you can edit the title.

 

But no worries...just a thought.

 

Good luck on your tone quest!

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I would but not too sure how to edit my title. Also, I put it in the nice lengthy intro to the thread.

 

 

There is a button to "Use Full Editor" and then you can edit the title.

 

But no worries...just a thought.

 

Good luck on your tone quest!

 

Yep like roscoe5 said:

 

Editing a post title

  1. Press "Edit" to edit your original first post in the thread.
  2. Now you will see a "Use Full Editor" button, press that.
  3. You will see that there is now an editable dialog box for the title you can now change to reflect your new title.

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Forgot to mention that lowering the Sag control in the amp models can tighten up the sound if needed.

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A lot of what I'm trying to achieve use mesa and the engl models on the line 6 products. I've been all over YouTube. If you could post links to said videos that would be rad!!

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To be honest, that tone is awful, truly awful.

 

Djent....not my bag, but as has been said, high gain amp, like the ENGL or Rectifier, don't up the drive too much, 5 or 6, but add a tube screamer in front of the amp.  Also, drop in a compressor before the amp and you'll also want a noise gate.

 

Also, just download some patches from customtone, even if they're not what you want, they won't be far off and you should be able to tweak the patch to get what you want.

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Yep like roscoe5 said:

 

Editing a post title

 

  • Press "Edit" to edit your original first post in the thread.
  • Now you will see a "Use Full Editor" button, press that.
  • You will see that there is now an editable dialog box for the title you can now change to reflect your new title.

Thanks guys. I was running this on mobile. All fied up. Grwat input from everyone. I will be sitting down tonight with the guitar and my Helix!!! Wish me luck!!!

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One of the "secrets" of the typical djent bands is that they have some pretty radical eq'ing aside from the amp - that one of the reasons that many of them (including, notably, Periphery) use an Axe FX. The good news is that Helix can do every bit of the EQing that the FX2 can.

 

Start with a pretty aggressive low cut, and back off on the lows on your amp. Then dial up a parametric eq and crank it, and sweep around the low-mid range while playing some palm-muted stuff (the looper can help here) until the chuggy-ness becomes prominent - then back the level on the eq down to taste (it'll probably still be pretty cranked).

 

There's some more eq going on in most djent bands, but those two things - low cut and a narrow low-mid boost - are pretty universal.

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To be honest, that tone is awful, truly awful.

 

You're not alone...I don't get it either.

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One of the "secrets" of the typical djent bands is that they have some pretty radical eq'ing aside from the amp - that one of the reasons that many of them (including, notably, Periphery) use an Axe FX. The good news is that Helix can do every bit of the EQing that the FX2 can.

Start with a pretty aggressive low cut, and back off on the lows on your amp. Then dial up a parametric eq and crank it, and sweep around the low-mid range while playing some palm-muted stuff (the looper can help here) until the chuggy-ness becomes prominent - then back the level on the eq down to taste (it'll probably still be pretty cranked).

There's some more eq going on in most djent bands, but those two things - low cut and a narrow low-mid boost - are pretty universal.

Placement of EQ's?

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Dude - 

 

Gate -> Scream 808 (Gain 0, Tone ~6, Level ~9)-> Gate -> ENGL Model (gain ~3-4, bass ~3-4, mids ~6, highs ~6 everything else to taste) -> XXL V30 w/421 2" off the grill then use the High Pass in the cab block to cut up to ~100Hz, Low Pass ~8k and you should be 90% of the way there. Your 81 should be just fine. Keep in mind that 50% of the djent guitar sound comes from the bass guitar playing in unison with a crunchy tone.

 

The Helix is more than capable of being djenty as hell.

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Dude -

 

Gate -> Scream 808 (Gain 0, Tone ~6, Level ~9)-> Gate -> ENGL Model (gain ~3-4, bass ~3-4, mids ~6, highs ~6 everything else to taste) -> XXL V30 w/421 2" off the grill then use the High Pass in the cab block to cut up to ~100Hz, Low Pass ~8k and you should be 90% of the way there. Your 81 should be just fine. Keep in mind that 50% of the djent guitar sound comes from the bass guitar playing in unison with a crunchy tone.

 

The Helix is more than capable of being djenty as hell.

Man, now I want to try an octave split path into a bass amp model...could be sick for jamming at home...or fire the bassist per SMG Studio videos ;)

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Shreadnoise

 

I would be more than happy to help you out with this, as I DO "get it" and don't think the tone your looking to get is "awful". That being said what are some bands you are looking to model your tone based off of?

 

More periphery or more like Chelsea grin or after the burial?

 

alot of the djent tone is just a very gated tone. The people here who don't like it, are more into a very loose, heavy reverb tones. The bluesy type tones. The helix has a lot of GREAT features to help you get the tone your looking for.

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Dude - 

 

Gate -> Scream 808 (Gain 0, Tone ~6, Level ~9)-> Gate -> ENGL Model (gain ~3-4, bass ~3-4, mids ~6, highs ~6 everything else to taste) -> XXL V30 w/421 2" off the grill then use the High Pass in the cab block to cut up to ~100Hz, Low Pass ~8k and you should be 90% of the way there. Your 81 should be just fine. Keep in mind that 50% of the djent guitar sound comes from the bass guitar playing in unison with a crunchy tone.

 

The Helix is more than capable of being djenty as hell.

I used an IR but I'm for sure gonna try this later.......

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Shreadnoise

 

I would be more than happy to help you out with this, as I DO "get it" and don't think the tone your looking to get is "awful". That being said what are some bands you are looking to model your tone based off of?

 

More periphery or more like Chelsea grin or after the burial?

 

alot of the djent tone is just a very gated tone. The people here who don't like it, are more into a very loose, heavy reverb tones. The bluesy type tones. The helix has a lot of GREAT features to help you get the tone your looking for.

 

I didn't say that the Djent tone is "awful" at all friend, I said that the example in the youtube video that was posted was awful, which it is.

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Dude - 

 

Gate -> Scream 808 (Gain 0, Tone ~6, Level ~9)-> Gate -> ENGL Model (gain ~3-4, bass ~3-4, mids ~6, highs ~6 everything else to taste) -> XXL V30 w/421 2" off the grill then use the High Pass in the cab block to cut up to ~100Hz, Low Pass ~8k and you should be 90% of the way there. Your 81 should be just fine. Keep in mind that 50% of the djent guitar sound comes from the bass guitar playing in unison with a crunchy tone.

 

The Helix is more than capable of being djenty as hell.

Now how would this fair out with my IR's? I have 3 sigma IR's or a mesa oversized, EVH 5153, and the Ubercab....

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Shreadnoise

I would be more than happy to help you out with this, as I DO "get it" and don't think the tone your looking to get is "awful". That being said what are some bands you are looking to model your tone based off of?

More periphery or more like Chelsea grin or after the burial?

alot of the djent tone is just a very gated tone. The people here who don't like it, are more into a very loose, heavy reverb tones. The bluesy type tones. The helix has a lot of GREAT features to help you get the tone your looking for.

I'm trying to find a happy medium between them all really. Also with the use of IR's.

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I didn't say that the Djent tone is "awful" at all friend, I said that the example in the youtube video that was posted was awful, which it is.

Was just trying to help a guy out - there weren't much by way of suggestions before that, so perhaps it served it's purpose by drawing out a few folks who can get him get more in the ballpark.

 

Based on the djent tone descriptions, though, it looked like the video had all or most of the right elements. At that point, perhaps its more of seasoning to taste. :)

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Now how would this fair out with my IR's? I have 3 sigma IR's or a mesa oversized, EVH 5153, and the Ubercab....

 

I'm not sure, really, you might not need to do as much EQ'ing as the 3Sigma's I've tried are a little more "fully-baked" as far as the low/high-pass goes.

 

Man, now I want to try an octave split path into a bass amp model...could be sick for jamming at home...or fire the bassist per SMG Studio videos ;)

I actually use a split BEFORE two amp models for my nine string (tuned down to A0, yes, 5-string bass down a step A) where I have everything below ~300 Hz going into one amp model (5150) and everything above that going to another one (ENGL) so I can distort/boost/EQ the low end separate from the high end, then blend them back together into a single cab. Helps keep things punchy and keeps the extreme low end from sounding too much like a bass.

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When I get home I'm gonna sit down with my helix and my guitar and dial that in and see what's up!!! I can't thank you all enough for all of your help. I knew it was possible with the helix but I'm not familiar with the tips and tricks of pulling it off. Now that clean tone..... I wanna do it all on one preset. Switch amps and fx. Which I've saw tons of videos on that. Or to throw out another question, should I separate them into different presets? Like my clean, rhythm, lead?

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Was just trying to help a guy out - there weren't much by way of suggestions before that, so perhaps it served it's purpose by drawing out a few folks who can get him get more in the ballpark.

 

Based on the djent tone descriptions, though, it looked like the video had all or most of the right elements. At that point, perhaps its more of seasoning to taste. :)

 

Sorry man, I know, it wasn't a dig at all, just my immediate reaction when I heard the tone.

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When I get home I'm gonna sit down with my helix and my guitar and dial that in and see what's up!!! I can't thank you all enough for all of your help. I knew it was possible with the helix but I'm not familiar with the tips and tricks of pulling it off. Now that clean tone..... I wanna do it all on one preset. Switch amps and fx. Which I've saw tons of videos on that. Or to throw out another question, should I separate them into different presets? Like my clean, rhythm, lead?

 

Snapshots are your friend my good man.

 

Just do a youtube search on snapshots and you'll be fine.  You can have 2 amps in one preset, with as many effects as you need, with snapshots controlling which blocks in the chain are on or off and, even better, you can control different settings for the same pedals and amps using snapshots.

 

The limits are endless, I've done a bad job explaining, but Like I said, a quick youtube lesson and you'l be fine.

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I'm not sure, really, you might not need to do as much EQ'ing as the 3Sigma's I've tried are a little more "fully-baked" as far as the low/high-pass goes.

 

I actually use a split BEFORE two amp models for my nine string (tuned down to A0, yes, 5-string bass down a step A) where I have everything below ~300 Hz going into one amp model (5150) and everything above that going to another one (ENGL) so I can distort/boost/EQ the low end separate from the high end, then blend them back together into a single cab. Helps keep things punchy and keeps the extreme low end from sounding too much like a bass.

 

Hail the djent patch-master!

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You're not alone...I don't get it either.

Really, the great god Helix is not pleased.

Good high gains are not an easy task and search begins from the proper model that suits your feel, from there it is a study on pushing the amp in the front using less gain on the amp and really not sure compression is a good idea unless you want to try a studio comp down the chain to tighten it up. High gain is already super compressive and too much comp ruins dynamic and articulation. Add to which amp djents the best you have to stop looking at the names of stuff and just try now they sound, spin the knobs increase the SAG all sorts of things to see how it does. 

You have to experiment the various front end models on the Helix as to which ones have a chemistry with that amp and enhance it and do not over gain the levels on anything. Anyone with the slightest sense of engineering and studio knowledge will tell you back off the over all amp gain and use an OD or clean boost in front to enhance the gain structure and tighten it up.

I am new to the Helix myself so I cannot tell you what I have come to as I have to do through this myself in a range of cleans and dirt, It takes some time as there are thousands of options on the Helix. Sometimes a fast delay set low helps thicken the sound without losing the basic attack. I would say over all EQ from the blocks to the global is extremely key. Much less what are you running the Helix into and how is more than key to the overall tone. Modelers do not need guitar amps, not at all. If you are going to enter the modeling magic forest then past ideas of guitar amps are not functional. 

You have to try various cabs and IRs with that selected amp (not to mention would just the preamp model work better into your rig) and remember stop thinking by name recognition with std amp things, it does not matter, how it sounds and feels is the important thing. You have to get into the over all aspect of EQ control which is a science in itself. A great tone requires a lot of tweak experimentation. I am very sure the complex up to 4 amp capability of the Helix equates to a lot of experimenting trial and error. There is the genius guy who wrote his own user manual on the POD HD patch creation called himself "meambobbo" he knew things about the POD programming that blew your mind. Until such a genius arrives on the Helix we have to experiment but do not think, click, click, click, and presto my tone is perfect. 

It is hard to think outside the visual and name recognition of things. This is not a real amp and a cabinet it is a massive array of chips, filters, and IR equations which are simulating what an amp does. The Helix will have its own chemistry on what makes it work the best. 

I cannot wait to don the headphones and air tanks and submerge into it later this week. If I come up with some cool things I will drop them in. An overlooked thing with all modelers is the end of chain sound rig you are using and why. Personally the whole 4CM thing to me is a waste of a good guitar amp and trying to make something it is not. Full range and power amp rigs are the deal with modelers and if you are not exploring stereo panning you are missing a lot of major cool stuff. Guitar speakers are not bad but they are designed for a guitar amp not a modeler. If you have higher-end high wattage guitar speakers they can work well but lower end, low wattage "classic" this is not their forte. 

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Yeah. That's why I use a powered frfr speaker. I use IR's. Just not sure if the preamp with an IR would sound that good....

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Got em.  Nice parametric after the cab.  

 

I actually liked the noise gate at the end of the chain personally.  The Presence on the Helix amps was a little low for my rig.  I needed to kick it up to around 7.

 

It worked really well with my homemade Recto 212 AKG D112 IR too.

 

Thanks!

 

Djent2%2BIR.JPG

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Really, the great god Helix is not pleased.

Good high gains are not an easy task and search begins from the proper model that suits your feel, from there it is a study on pushing the amp in the front using less gain on the amp and really not sure compression is a good idea unless you want to try a studio comp down the chain to tighten it up. High gain is already super compressive and too much comp ruins dynamic and articulation. Add to which amp djents the best you have to stop looking at the names of stuff and just try now they sound, spin the knobs increase the SAG all sorts of things to see how it does.

You have to experiment the various front end models on the Helix as to which ones have a chemistry with that amp and enhance it and do not over gain the levels on anything. Anyone with the slightest sense of engineering and studio knowledge will tell you back off the over all amp gain and use an OD or clean boost in front to enhance the gain structure and tighten it up.

I am new to the Helix myself so I cannot tell you what I have come to as I have to do through this myself in a range of cleans and dirt, It takes some time as there are thousands of options on the Helix. Sometimes a fast delay set low helps thicken the sound without losing the basic attack. I would say over all EQ from the blocks to the global is extremely key. Much less what are you running the Helix into and how is more than key to the overall tone. Modelers do not need guitar amps, not at all. If you are going to enter the modeling magic forest then past ideas of guitar amps are not functional.

You have to try various cabs and IRs with that selected amp (not to mention would just the preamp model work better into your rig) and remember stop thinking by name recognition with std amp things, it does not matter, how it sounds and feels is the important thing. You have to get into the over all aspect of EQ control which is a science in itself. A great tone requires a lot of tweak experimentation. I am very sure the complex up to 4 amp capability of the Helix equates to a lot of experimenting trial and error. There is the genius guy who wrote his own user manual on the POD HD patch creation called himself "meambobbo" he knew things about the POD programming that blew your mind. Until such a genius arrives on the Helix we have to experiment but do not think, click, click, click, and presto my tone is perfect.

It is hard to think outside the visual and name recognition of things. This is not a real amp and a cabinet it is a massive array of chips, filters, and IR equations which are simulating what an amp does. The Helix will have its own chemistry on what makes it work the best.

I cannot wait to don the headphones and air tanks and submerge into it later this week. If I come up with some cool things I will drop them in. An overlooked thing with all modelers is the end of chain sound rig you are using and why. Personally the whole 4CM thing to me is a waste of a good guitar amp and trying to make something it is not. Full range and power amp rigs are the deal with modelers and if you are not exploring stereo panning you are missing a lot of major cool stuff. Guitar speakers are not bad but they are designed for a guitar amp not a modeler. If you have higher-end high wattage guitar speakers they can work well but lower end, low wattage "classic" this is not their forte.

Not entirely sure why this was directed to me...I'm well acquainted with the patch creation process, and have no trouble getting the tones I'm after.

 

I was merely echoing the sentiment of another post, that the tone in the video posted above is about as pleasant as listening to a castrated yodeler.

 

Djent-on, gents! ;)

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