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Relay G10 USB input poor design

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It definitely isn't a problem for me and most certainly wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if it was to fail, which I am sure it will considering the price point. If you want something that is bullet proof or at least built for everyday touring, Sennheiser or Shure is the way to go, but you will pay a great deal more for that build quality. :)

 

The Relay G70 and G75 units are built like tanks as well...

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Its funny how this isnt a problem for people until it happens, then its the worst thing in the world :) I can assure you that 100% of these units will fail eventually due to this exact issue. It doesnt matter if you never touch it, it will happen one day, when you least want it to.

 

100%, huh? I guess time will tell...

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The Relay G70 and G75 units are built like tanks as well...

My bad, completely forgot about those models. :)

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100%, huh? I guess time will tell...

If he is referring to the USB jack surface mounted to the board, and that being the only mechanical support for the jack, then the statement may be plausible. 

 

I haven't had this issue with my jack yet, but I am EXTREMELY gentle with mine. I know it's not "tour grade". I bought it because it was cheap and easy. 

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What difference does it make at this point to have or offer "mods" on the G10.

Point is that the G10 is manufactured to fail due to overlooking a secure USB input design.

Line 6 could have made the fix before releasing worldwide sales.

Now, the G10 has a shoddy reputation that needs a complicated "mod" or handled like a carton of eggs.

Fuksake. I got a $10 cellphone that has a more secure USB input that never has damaged the USB input over a couple of years of constant plugging and unplugging.

That fix should have been done at the factory level and price point still would have come in under $200.

If ya made mods, and still under warranty, forget about it. It will break down the road and ur screwed.

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What difference does it make at this point to have or offer "mods" on the G10.

Point is that the G10 is manufactured to fail due to overlooking a secure USB input design.

Line 6 could have made the fix before releasing worldwide sales.

Now, the G10 has a shoddy reputation that needs a complicated "mod" or handled like a carton of eggs.

Fuksake. I got a $10 cellphone that has a more secure USB input that never has damaged the USB input over a couple of years of constant plugging and unplugging.

That fix should have been done at the factory level and price point still would have come in under $200.

If ya made mods, and still under warranty, forget about it. It will break down the road and ur screwed.

 

I think people are generally over-estimating the extent of units that have issues, but like anything like this the actual numbers are only going to be known by Line 6. This thread is only at three pages right now - very small compared to other things like this (the footswitches on the X3L, for example). If Line 6 gets a lot them back with this particular problem, I have to believe they'll change the way the input is being built at the factory. I mean, it makes absolutely no sense to believe that a company wants to have a bunch of unhappy customers and do a ton of warranty repairs or replacements. If the input is as sensitive as it's being portrayed, than I would imagine that would show up within the year warranty period under normal use.

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Since July 2016 I've had three G10 base unit USB ports that failed! Each was returned to Line 6. The one I have now, received brand new as a Warranty replacement from Line 6 has yet to fail.

 

The original product warranty is 1 year. The credit card I used for the purchase provides an extenstion of the warranty duration by one year for a total coverage period of 2 years. If the G10 breaks again, it will once again go back for warranty coverage. By the time July 2018 rolls around, it is not unreasonable to expect that Line 6 will have improved their production method to reinforce and secure the port. If not, I wouldn't be surprised to see other competitors, such as XVive, enter the market.

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Add me to the list in which the usb failed and mine is past the warranty period, I bought mine when they first came out.  Mine will work but you have to push the usb port up pretty hard to get the pins to make contact.  For those that have done the 9v mod, does anybody have pics of the points to where you actually solder to the G10's board?  Thanks!

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Add me to the list in which the usb failed and mine is past the warranty period, I bought mine when they first came out.  Mine will work but you have to push the usb port up pretty hard to get the pins to make contact.  For those that have done the 9v mod, does anybody have pics of the points to where you actually solder to the G10's board?  Thanks!

 

Would be worth opening up a support ticket for it even if it is out of warranty, imo... In the past if there have been things with systemic failures, Line 6 has taken care of them regardless of the warranty status.

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Joe -

Thanks for the information on the modification.

This improves the usage of the G10 BIG TIME for me.  I moved the G10 to my pedalboard and power it from a power supply...works great.

 

I also agree with a poster who stated that this is delicate soldering work, however I did manage to do it even with my $7 Radio Shack soldering iron. (I did melt the casing a bit)

The only deviation I made was the following; I didn't want to unsolder the USB connector from the power converter board so I used a USB cable from a TC Electronic Toneprint pedal (I have multiple so I could definately hack one of them)

 

Here some pics;

post-2349409-0-31715300-1490720446_thumb.jpgpost-2349409-0-08516100-1490720460_thumb.jpgpost-2349409-0-40325100-1490720472_thumb.jpgpost-2349409-0-27009000-1490720482_thumb.jpgpost-2349409-0-36869700-1490720494_thumb.jpg

 

I already toasted a few beers to you in my garage after the successful repair and improvement.

 

Cheers

Tom

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Joe -

Thanks for the information on the modification.

This improves the usage of the G10 BIG TIME for me.  I moved the G10 to my pedalboard and power it from a power supply...works great.

 

I also agree with a poster who stated that this is delicate soldering work, however I did manage to do it even with my $7 Radio Shack soldering iron. (I did melt the casing a bit)

The only deviation I made was the following; I didn't want to unsolder the USB connector from the power converter board so I used a USB cable from a TC Electronic Toneprint pedal (I have multiple so I could definately hack one of them)

 

Here some pics;

attachicon.gifIMG_1287 (1).JPGattachicon.gifIMG_1289 (1).JPGattachicon.gifIMG_1310 (1).JPGattachicon.gifIMG_1311 (1).JPGattachicon.gifIMG_1312 (1).JPG

 

I already toasted a few beers to you in my garage after the successful repair and improvement.

 

Cheers

Tom

 

 

Nice Work...Cheers! beer.gif

 

seeya

 

Joe

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I skipped the 9v to 5v converter. Happy to just use a 5v supply. Much simpler, just 2 wires, and under $10 all in.

 

You can see the tip (red) soldered to the + side of the 100uf electrolytic cap and the ground (black) soldered to the other side.

post-2525544-0-24393600-1491451588_thumb.jpg

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I skipped the 9v to 5v converter. Happy to just use a 5v supply. Much simpler, just 2 wires, and under $10 all in.

 

You can see the tip (red) soldered to the + side of the 100uf electrolytic cap and the ground (black) soldered to the other side.

Any chance of explaining again what you've done here a little more thoroughly?

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I skipped the 9v to 5v converter. Happy to just use a 5v supply. Much simpler, just 2 wires, and under $10 all in.

 

You can see the tip (red) soldered to the + side of the 100uf electrolytic cap and the ground (black) soldered to the other side.

Great solution. 

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Any chance of explaining again what you've done here a little more thoroughly?

HERE IS WHAT I DID AT MY OWN RISK AND VOIDING MY WARRANTY. I KNOW HOW TO HANDLE TOOLS AND SOLDER SAFELY. I AM NOT SUGGESTING ANYONE DO THIS, MERELY DESCRIBING WHAT I DID. I TOOK PHOTOS ALONG THE WAY TO KNOW HOW IT GOES BACK TOGETHER.

 

1. Poked through the label on the bottom with a small Philips head and removed the screw. I rubbed around the label to indent it where the hole is.

 

2. Used a small flat head and pry and work the case apart. This is a pain and left marks, small since I was careful. There are tabs on the lid and body that snap together.

 

3. Using wrench and needle nose pliers, unscrewed the 1/4" jack nuts.

 

4. Removed XLR screws, and two circuit board screws.

 

5. Lifted out the board.

 

6. Drilled a hole to just fit the 2.1/5.5 mm jack I bought in the middle of the usb hole and the bottom edge centered with the usb hole. Blew out the plastic bits from drilling.

 

7. Mounted the jack and tightened it down.

 

8. Soldered about two inches of red and black wire, about 22g., to the + and - pads of the 100uf cap right near the usb connector CAREFULLY. There is a + printed on the board near the cap.

 

9. Installed the circuit board by reversing the removal steps.

 

10. Carefully soldered the red wire to the center tip of the DC jack and the black to the other tab on the jack.

 

11. Snapped the bottom on and screwed it down.

 

I KNOW THAT I CAN'T USE BOTH THE USB AND THE DC POWER I INSTALLED AT THE SAME TIME. I MIGHT FILL THE USB CONNECTOR WITH EPOXY OR SOMETHING TO PREVENT THIS AS I'LL NEVER USE IT AGAIN.

 

** I CAN ONLY USE A 5V 1A + TIP DC SUPPLY WITH THIS. *NOT* A 9V, ELSE I'LL LET THE SMOKE OUT.

post-2525544-0-15308200-1491484134_thumb.jpg

post-2525544-0-80876300-1491484409_thumb.jpg

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I was first impressed when I used the G10 a couple of times. I added it to my pedal train board as my input. But after I plugged in the USB cable to the G10 transmitter, it just pushed right through, and it didn't work anymore.

 

After taking the unit apart, I noticed the problem right away. The female module you plug it into had busted off of the motherboard at a couple of the solder joints that are so micro and delicate, it wouldn't have ever held up past a few plug ins anyway. Weak, shoddy, frail, poor design- are the only words to describe it

 

This is not even a human fix as it wasn't originally soldered in by a human. This would have had to have been soldered in by some micro robotic surface mount soldering process.

 

There is absolutely no strain relieve what-so-ever in such a delicately frail and feebly piece of hardware in such a critical area that requires the cable be plugged-in for operation.

 

Someone mentioned road-worthy, but this thing is set up for failure after only a few uses in the bedroom.

 

This is my first Line 6 purchase, and it will be my last.

 

I cannot believe a company would engineer such a great product and risk it all on such a poorly  designed interface for it.

 

If you own one of these, I highly recommend that you plug the USB cable in, and never remove it or even move the cable in any way or you will soon encounter  the very same result I did.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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just to update my story (I had posted here about a month or two ago) and I had the conversion done and was thrilled with it.  The mod was done to my broken unit that was on my peddleboard and that I gigged with.

 

I own two other g10's that stay in the house and I worried that at some inopportune moment one of them would break too.  As was discussed earlier here, it is so easy to break these units that the argument that you don't gig with one and/or the plug is never removed is a week argument. 

 

So I had the last two done and now all three work flawlessly.  the parts cost a couple of bucks from ebay and I would recommend since the bard costs $.99 and the jacks about the same, that you order 3-5 incase you break any or get another g10 down the road (perhaps a broken one for pennies on the dollar).

 

every single board and jack worked fine, and the units are working and now much better built than the day I got them!

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Just a very, very small point;

 

The unit that everyone here appears to be using to convert 9V to 5V is a switch mode convertor.

 

Has anyone measured the noise output from these ?

 

I'll probably end up modding my G10 Rx, just because looking at the pics of the USB connector, it is going to fail (!) at sometime

 

But, I'll use a linear regulator, not switch mode - much lower output noise.

 

Switchmodes are usually used where there is a reasonable current draw from a high-ish voltage differential. 

 

9V to 5V @110 mA = 440mW dissipation in the linear regulator.  Pretty easy to deal with.

 

I'll post a schematic if anyone is interested;

I already have parts to do this in my store drawers, but the parts are cheap.

 

(before anyone asks - I've been involved in micro electronic design for circa 25 years :) ) 

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Has anyone measured the noise output from these ?

 

(before anyone asks - I've been involved in micro electronic design for circa 25 years :) ) 

 

----------------

You remind me of the engineer who made the three mods on my units (I say that in a good way, not a bad way)

 

He like you, had concerns...  He worried if the unit would have the identical wireless range after the mod.

 

I can assure you that the the output sounds fine, and the range is fine, and the boards recommended here by others work.  While the noise was not tested or measured, the sound sounds fine to me, even at the loudest levels as I play out and rehearse with my band all the time.

 

Last, my engineer friend worried about variances in the output voltage from the board and was very impressed that no matter what he threw at it, it returned 5 steady volts when he measured it with his equipment.

 

Guys, don't overthink this, it really works!

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Any noise in the power conversion is probably taken care of in the digital domain I would assume, but I am not familiar with what Line 6 engineers are doing in the guts of the thing. 

 

It may sound strange, but I almost can't wait for mine to fail (or the Sweetwater warranty ends) on mine so I can make the conversion. 

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Has anybody else tried the with a One Spot power supply? I just finished the mod using the voltage converter card and my One Spot. When I plugged it, the unit sounded like a siren going off. Not sure if it was the One Spot or my card is bad or some other issue. I pulled the wires to the card, pugged the micro USB back in and it works fine. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks.

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Has anybody else tried the with a One Spot power supply? I just finished the mod using the voltage converter card and my One Spot. When I plugged it, the unit sounded like a siren going off. Not sure if it was the One Spot or my card is bad or some other issue. I pulled the wires to the card, pugged the micro USB back in and it works fine. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks.

First try a different power supply. If you get the same result, it may be related to what  Talonmm mentioned above. If it is a poorly designed switchmode power supply/converter, then you may be hearing the high frequency switching "scream". 

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First try a different power supply. If you get the same result, it may be related to what  Talonmm mentioned above. If it is a poorly designed switchmode power supply/converter, then you may be hearing the high frequency switching "scream". 

Thank you.  I'll give that a try.

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**** Please read this ******

 

As I stated earlier, I had a very knowledgeable engineer perform the mod suggested by Joe. My engineer thought Joe's idea was outstanding. The mod was done to all three of my g-10 units and all worked fine until Monday. The unit I use for band practice is used once or twice a week for about 2.5 hours each practice although I usually charge the transmitter separately. Instead of charging it using the base, I use the separately-sold Line 6 charger that's designed to get power from a usb port (more on that in a minute).

 

The g10 I use for daily practice (about two hours each day) worked fine until Monday. It was time to recharge the transmitter so I left it charging in the g10 base for about 4-5 hours. I saw the unit was still functioning properly, and I pulled the transmitter from the top of the g10 charging base. Next I turned away to plug the transmitter into the guitar and then realized I could not get any sound. Turns out the g10 base was no longer working and nothing I could do changed that. Without it working, there will be no sound as we all know.

 

I tested another g10 base with the existing ac adapter that that worked fine so that shows the ac adapter worked and was getting current. The non-working g10 base did not work with any power supply and I tried a few. My engineering friend took the unit apart hoping to find a loose wire but everything looked fine with the work he did and the new components used seem to be working fine when he tested them.

 

It's possible the unit failed for other reasons, but it's likely that the modification might have had something to do with this failure. Now regarding charging the transmitter in the line 6 stand-alone usb charger, I wonder if my other units have not blown because they are never on for 4 hours or more of continuous usage. As I already mentioned the new components were tested on the non working system and they appear sound, yet the system will not power up. Any thoughts or suggestions?

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**** Please read this ******

 

As I stated earlier, I had a very knowledgeable engineer perform the mod suggested by Joe. My engineer thought Joe's idea was (snipped ...)

Dump the 9 to 5 and go straight 5V, no issues.

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Dump the 9 to 5 and go straight 5V, no issues.

 

I agree with your thinking and suggested that to my tech.  I was told those step down boards work well and appratnely they are used in many electrical devices and there was no signs the malfunction was caused by the step down board. 

 

The board was tested before and after my until stopped working and is still working as designed.

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**** Please read this ******

 

As I stated earlier, I had a very knowledgeable engineer perform the mod suggested by Joe. My engineer thought Joe's idea was outstanding. The mod was done to all three of my g-10 units and all worked fine until Monday. The unit I use for band practice is used once or twice a week for about 2.5 hours each practice although I usually charge the transmitter separately. Instead of charging it using the base, I use the separately-sold Line 6 charger that's designed to get power from a usb port (more on that in a minute).

 

The g10 I use for daily practice (about two hours each day) worked fine until Monday. It was time to recharge the transmitter so I left it charging in the g10 base for about 4-5 hours. I saw the unit was still functioning properly, and I pulled the transmitter from the top of the g10 charging base. Next I turned away to plug the transmitter into the guitar and then realized I could not get any sound. Turns out the g10 base was no longer working and nothing I could do changed that. Without it working, there will be no sound as we all know.

 

I tested another g10 base with the existing ac adapter that that worked fine so that shows the ac adapter worked and was getting current. The non-working g10 base did not work with any power supply and I tried a few. My engineering friend took the unit apart hoping to find a loose wire but everything looked fine with the work he did and the new components used seem to be working fine when he tested them.

 

It's possible the unit failed for other reasons, but it's likely that the modification might have had something to do with this failure. Now regarding charging the transmitter in the line 6 stand-alone usb charger, I wonder if my other units have not blown because they are never on for 4 hours or more of continuous usage. As I already mentioned the new components were tested on the non working system and they appear sound, yet the system will not power up. Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

Talonmm,

 

Just curious if you had any of your other units fail or was it just the one?  Has anybody else had a modded unit fail yet?

 

 

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Talonmm,

 

Just curious if you had any of your other units fail or was it just the one?  Has anybody else had a modded unit fail yet?

 

 

The remaining two units are working fine.  My friend that did the mod feels it could have been a short in the electronics inside the original base unit.  He retested the board he put in and his wiring work and those things are working fine.  He isolated the electronic piece in the g10 base that failed and is trying to locate a replacement on the internet to see if he can get the g10 to work again.

 

On the first mod he did, that continues to work,  he taped the step down board to the inside of the base unit as was recommended by Joe.  In the next two units, he wrapped the step-down boards in electrical tape so nothing could touch the board but did not mount either of them on the inside of the base unit .  If the board or anything inside the base heated up which it shouldn't, my pal thinks that could be the problem but feels it's probably not.  The power consumption in the g10 is so small that it should not get warm at all.

 

I kept asking him if he thought the board I purchased on eBay could have failed but with his years of experience in electrical engineering and repair, he believes  these boards almost always work fine.

 

Since the failure, he mounted the board to the side on the working unit and so far so good on the two reamining working g10's.

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Ok thanks for the reply, so sounds like it was a one off failure? Glad to hear your other units are running flawlessly at least.  I still plan to do this mod to mine, just waiting on the parts to come in the mail.

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Gee, I hope it was a one-off failure but I am not 100% positive.  I notice when a line 6 product has a specific problem, you will see many face the exact same problem.  I searched but did not find g10 owners posting in this forum section about their units not working after a while.

 

I purchased a line 6 refurbished g10  off of ebay directly from line 6 and apparently it has an old firmware version and no new jack switch as the brand new g10's now ship with.  I continue to be disappointed with the quality and service of line 6 products.

 

The old firmware version seems to be problematic to upgrade as the latest installer insists my version 1.0 is the latest while I see others have upgraded to 1.04

 

I just want to play guitar, not dabble endlessly in line6 updates and quality issues and problems

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Im thinkin that y'all bypassing USB connection will be missing any firmware updates, tweeks, and software mods.

This product is not worth going through the mods. Just buy a more superior wireless unit rather than taking a chance and expense of a new G10.

G10 POWER INPUT IS CRAP TECHNOLOGY!

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Sitting here I think only the power is used on the USB, not data. Needs to be confirmed.

 

And, my USB is still good, I only shunted the 5V on the input so I can still use my USB, *OR* my 5V input, but not at the same time.

 

This won't be the case if yours is broken and left that way.

 

Aside from this disaster of a power design, is a great unit. The next Gen will address this most certainly?

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The USB input is also a data connect point, there have been several firmware updates for G10 in the last year.

I was the original poster that opened this thread when I saw how fragile the connection point is on the G10's.

I went through 3 additional units, all with the same result.

G10 worked great as a wireless unit until failure. why didn't they see it coming? Line 6 rep for me is in the toilet.

Reading here and other Line 6 chats I see there have been several people that made mods have complete failure at some point.

If you missed the firmware updates, the very important sleep time and charge time update.

Line 6 is not planning a version 2 of the G10 they tell me.

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What did the updates do specifically? Mine seems to work perfectly timewise, otherwise.

 

I'll go look for them.

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A few things. as confirmed, the often-broken usb connection when working is used for data too and for updates. Correct me if I am wrong but since the unit was introduced, there has not been a single firmware update for the g10 base unit (the installer is still showing ver 1.0 as the most current firmware update for the base).

 

However, the transmitter is up to firmware version 1.04. I purchased another line 6 g10 unit (more of that and it's problem in a moment). Turns out if you make the mod we have discussed and therefore can not use the usb connection for updates, if you have an original unaltered working g10 base or have a friend or bandmate with an original working g10 base, you can plug your transmitter into that unit and perform the firmware update to the transmitter.

 

That's exactly what I did that to all my transmitters this weekend and they all upgraded just fine to the latest 1.04 firmware version. 

 

Now my latest problem:  I just purchased a refurbished g10 unit on ebay from line 6 for a lot less money than what a new one costs.  I guess they are screwing their loyal reseller clients but that's another story.  Turns out they are not including in the packaging of these refirb's (even though they are being sold as new but refurbished), the new additional jack to help deal with a few compatibility issues that occur on some guitars that do not work properly with the original g10 transmitters.

 

Way to go line 6. They have great products like the Helix but yet have lots of bombs like the g10, the Amplifi amps that just about everyone hates, and other products too that were not ready for prime time.  

 

I looked around for something like a g10 made by someone else who perhaps has a better solution for powering the unit with a rechargeable but more reliable design but there are no competing products that does exactly what the g10 does.

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Way to go line 6. They have great products like the Helix but yet have lots of bombs like the g10, the Amplifi amps that just about everyone hates, and other products too that were not ready for prime time. 

 

You consider the G10 and the AMPLIFi bombs? I'm pretty sure from Line 6's perspectives they aren't... The G10 seems to be selling quite well, and same with the AMPLIFi... I mean they released the AMPLIFi 30 a year or so after the original release. Do you think they would do that if the line was tanking? Line 6 will kill products that aren't doing well... They don't continue to sink money into them.

 

Anyway, I'm sure if you contact Line 6, they'll send you that adapter.

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You consider the G10 and the AMPLIFi bombs? I'm pretty sure from Line 6's perspectives they aren't... The G10 seems to be selling quite well, and same with the AMPLIFi... I mean they released the AMPLIFi 30 a year or so after the original release. Do you think they would do that if the line was tanking? Line 6 will kill products that aren't doing well... They don't continue to sink money into them.

 

Anyway, I'm sure if you contact Line 6, they'll send you that adapter.

 

 

I stand by my comments.  The g10 is an engineering nightmare with many people breaking these units.  Even Victor, the North East rep for the company broke a g10 while demoing it.  If you don't believe me ask him.  You can't possible think the g10 was designed ideally.

 

Next the Amplify is a nightmare too.  go to the forum as tally up positive vs. negative comments, and then look at Line 6's marketing of their amps.  How much resources are being used to market the amplify these days.

 

Next go to my local sam ash or GC and look for any amplify units on the sales floor.  When the Amplify first came out and for about 6 months GC dedicated a special spot for them on the sales floor - both the larger unit and the smaller unit.  No more.  

 

So yes, both units are bombs.

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I stand by my comments.  The g10 is an engineering nightmare with many people breaking these units.  Even Victor, the North East rep for the company broke a g10 while demoing it.  If you don't believe me ask him.  You can't possible think the g10 was designed ideally.

 

Next the Amplify is a nightmare too.  go to the forum as tally up positive vs. negative comments, and then look at Line 6's marketing of their amps.  How much resources are being used to market the amplify these days.

 

Next go to my local sam ash or GC and look for any amplify units on the sales floor.  When the Amplify first came out and for about 6 months GC dedicated a special spot for them on the sales floor - both the larger unit and the smaller unit.  No more.  

 

So yes, both units are bombs.

 

Well, GC does a horrible job marketing modeling products in general, so I wouldn't put too much stock in that... It's not unusual for a company to pull back on advertising after a product been on the market for awhile. The AMPLIFi stuff is over three years old now, I believe. All I'm saying is a product line that's a bomb doesn't stay on the market for three years, generally.

 

As far as the G10, I'd imagine they've sold thousands of them. As to how many have failed, I have no idea. I know Line 6 will replace any that do. I'm not saying the power connection is ideal, whatever that means. I imagine if the failure rate is higher than acceptable, they'll incorporate changes into the design at the factory. That's not all that uncommon.

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Dump the 9 to 5 and go straight 5V, no issues.

Thank you Claydots, was able to salvage my G10 due to your posts.  As some others have reported, my USB input never from the get-go provided a solid connection with the micro USB cable as the micro USB would only plug in about half way.  The inevitable happened with a total failure of the port.  I had been very careful with the fragile power supply connection but it certainly was no surprise to me when it eventually failed.  I can't do updates since the USB port is shot but at least the unit is functional and the connection is now so much more secure.  Though I really like the unit from the functionality/use-ability standpoint, there is just no way I could ever recommend this product unless Line 6 changes this connection. 

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