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phil_m

Speaking of fuzz...

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I recorded this little piece last night using the Fuzz Face model along with the Deluxe Reverb Normal channel... I can't say I've ever used the Fuzz Face model all that much, but I just kind of stumbled on this tone. I was happy with the spitting, gnarly quality of this tone.

 

https://soundcloud.com/phil-miller-20/fuzzy-monkey-extended

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I recorded this little piece last night using the Fuzz Face model along with the Deluxe Reverb Normal channel... I can't say I've ever used the Fuzz Face model all that much, but I just kind of stumbled on this tone. I was happy with the spitting, gnarly quality of this tone.

 

https://soundcloud.com/phil-miller-20/fuzzy-monkey

 

Excellent! I am curious, where did you place the fuzz in the signal chain and if you had it in the first position what did you have the impedance set to? Also, did you do anything special with the EQ or low/high cuts? This sounds more rounded and smooth than the fuzz tones I have been getting.

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Excellent! I am curious, where did you place the fuzz in the signal chain and if you had it in the first position what did you have the impedance set to? Also, did you do anything special with the EQ or low/high cuts? This sound more rounded and smooth than the fuzz tones I have been getting.

 

I didn't have the fuzz first. I actually have a volume pedal first in the chain, then wah, the Fuzz Face and then the Klon serving as an always-on clean boost for the amp. In real life, I find I hardly ever like any fuzz pedals without pairing them with an overdrive, so I think the was the Fuzz Face interacts with the Klon in the Helix is pretty spot on. It definitely seems to give it a bit more mid-punch.

 

The guitar I'm using in this clip is an Eastman T486B, and it has Seymour Duncan Phat Cat pickups... Those are the P90s that are the same size as a standard humbucker.

 

I've attached the .hlx file if you want to check it out (just delete the .zip extension). There's a lot of other stuff going on in this patch as well, as I started with a jack-of-all-trades patch I have and modified it. So there's eight snapshots each doing different things as well. I use two external pedals, so if you're not using any, you might need to change the EXP1/EXP2 assignments.

 

2lYuCBm.jpg

Deluxe Fuzz.hlx.zip

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It's not your fault but fuzz sucks.

I see in your pic  you set fuzz parameter almost to zero and it's even too much.

 

Watch this video, Fultone 69 is a reissue of Arbiter Fuzz.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5CW52cRvQo

 

Listen to it carefully when he let the notes ring no strange farty noises  and the sound it's not like a broken transistor radio speaker it's more creamy.

Is it so difficult to copy this sound?

you may say...but the original arbiter was worst than Fulltone 69 it was a fart generator it had problems...

Who cares? give me sound without the problems.

Helix is a virtual world.

 

The fuzzes in Helix suck and Leslies too. period.

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Someone around here is pissed because he didn't get what he wanted for christmas, and is slowly entering the area where tiresome becomes rude.

Nice job, Phil, BTW, and nice fuzz sound.

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Someone around here is pissed because he didn't get what he wanted for christmas, and is slowly entering the area where tiresome becomes rude.

 

Nice job, Phil, BTW, and nice fuzz sound.

I said it's not Phil fault, he did the best possible, but there is no way to make the fuzz sound decent.

 

Even with the fuzz parameter almost to zero.

this is a evidence that the fuzz doesn't work well...is untweakable....all the fuzzes are like this.

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It's not your fault but fuzz sucks.

I see in your pic  you set fuzz parameter almost to zero and it's even too much.

 

Watch this video, Fultone 69 is a reissue of Arbiter Fuzz.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5CW52cRvQo

 

Listen to it carefully when he let the notes ring no strange farty noises  and the sound it's not like a broken transistor radio speaker it's more creamy.

Is it so difficult to copy this sound?

you may say...but the original arbiter was worst than Fulltone 69 it was a fart generator it had problems...

Who cares? give me sound without the problems.

Helix is a virtual world.

 

The fuzzes in Helix suck and Leslies too. period.

 

In my recording, the rhythm track was recorded with the low fuzz level. The lead track was higher, 6.2 or something like that. I kind of like how the Fuzz Face gets that squelching thing going on in the lower settings. I can understand the "fart machine" comment, but I think that's what makes it kind of fun.

 

I don't really think either of the categories of effects you mention suck. I mean, yes, the Helix fuzzes do sound more extreme than the ones you like, but sometimes more extreme fuzzes are called for. I actually think that many of the fuzzes you put up sound closer to overdrives in when the fuzz is down low. I wonder if there would be other ways to come close to those sounds with other effects in the Helix...

 

As far as the rotaries I have the Strymon Mobius, and while I would say I like the rotary effect in it better than the Helix, it's not like it's complete night and day difference. I think for use a stomp in front of an amp, the Helix's Vibe Rotary model actually works better than than the other two (the other two seem to work better as cab replacements). The Strymon rotary model is using a dedicated SHARC processor just for that one effect, though. So in that sense, something would be wrong if it weren't more detailed. The main thing I like about the Strymon rotary it behave when you ramp the speed up or down. That's really where I notice the most difference.

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In my recording, the rhythm track was recorded with the low fuzz level. The lead track was higher, 6.2 or something like that. I kind of like how the Fuzz Face gets that squelching thing going on in the lower settings. I can understand the "fart machine" comment, but I think that's what makes it kind of fun.

 

I don't really think either of the categories of effects you mention suck. I mean, yes, the Helix fuzzes do sound more extreme than the ones you like, but sometimes more extreme fuzzes are called for. I actually think that many of the fuzzes you put up sound closer to overdrives in when the fuzz is down low. I wonder if there would be other ways to come close to those sounds with other effects in the Helix...

 

As far as the rotaries I have the Strymon Mobius, and while I would say I like the rotary effect in it better than the Helix, it's not like it's complete night and day difference. I think for use a stomp in front of an amp, the Helix's Vibe Rotary model actually works better than than the other two (the other two seem to work better as cab replacements). The Strymon rotary model is using a dedicated SHARC processor just for that one effect, though. So in that sense, something would be wrong if it weren't more detailed. The main thing I like about the Strymon rotary it behave when you ramp the speed up or down. That's really where I notice the most difference.

About the Leslie.

It will better to have a block like an univibe without to switch the cab and change the sound, i know in the real old world it was like that...who cares?

The main thing is to emulate leslie sound modulation without all hassles.

For example if i'm using a marshall and i want leslie modulation, i have to switch to Leslie as a cab and the sound become wimpy.

I'd like to keep the marshall sound but with leslie modulation.

Is it so strange?

 

About fuzzes.

if you put in 4 fuzzes in helix

make 3 extreme

A at least 1 one mild

 

For example KWB is a mild ovedrive.

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About the Leslie.

It will better to have a block like an univibe without to switch the cab and change the sound, i know in the real old world it was like that...who cares?

The main thing is to emulate leslie sound modulation without all hassles.

For example if i'm using a marshall and i want leslie modulation, i have to switch to Leslie as a cab and the sound become wimpy.

I'd like to keep the marshall sound but with leslie modulation.

Is it so strange?

 

Well, like I said, I think the Vibe Rotary model does this pretty well. Technically, it's still a model of a rotary cabinet - the Fender Vibratone, to be exact. But it seems to be a bit more transparent to me.

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By the way... I don't disagree with the assertion the new fuzzes should be added. I would never discourage anyone from suggesting the addition of new effects. I do disagree, however, that the fuzzes that we currently have suck. They may not be what you're after, but that doesn't mean they suck.

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Speaking as a Klon circuit user of various pedal board setups. At times I have had one front and end of the board for not only the decent buffer but because a Klon makes anything running into it or after it better. The trick is run them cleaner the clean boost quality is exceptional. I was delighted when I saw L6 put the Klon and Timmy models in. As for fuzz, never been one of my things but for sure into a clean Klon makes for more a Velvet Fuzz (Wampler) thing.

I like most of the effects in the Helix and I find the pitch shifter and dual pitch shifter to be very good on tracking and tones. The 2.01 seems to have tightened up the tracking glitch very nicely. 

TheVibe in the Helix is one of the best I have ever heard even for real photocell circuits I have always used.  

I also like the reverbs and delays myself, I can get some some really great things using various combinations and splits. 

If they want to work on new things or improvements, fuzz would be at the bottom of my list.

I was skeptical of the Helix, not being a POD fan myself, having been-there-done-that. but the Helix is a very different animal, I could not be more pleased with the unit, it is a costly unit but in the scope of other higher end modelers still a great deal. I have heard good A/B's using the Fractal and I cannot tell a difference. 

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I can understand the way Paolo feels about the fuzzes as they are so extreme on the Helix that I have not employed one since I initially tried and found them to be unusable. Could be that they just need the right impedance, EQ, and settings, pilot error, but I just found them to be wretched. I have never been a huge fan of fuzz to begin with although some players (Jack White leaps to mind in recent years) have managed to get a decent sound with them and a cheap one at that, he uses the Big Muff. Doesn't hurt that he has major studios and maybe a good producer or two to help him out with processing. I have to admit I have not tried the Wringer Fuzz yet. I will have to revisit the fuzzes, I generally prefer a Tube Screamer type overdrive with a good amp sound though.

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I thought that was obvious, but a fuzz is not an overdrive, nor is it a distortion, or a booster. There are many kinds of fuzzes, but fuzz is fuzz. 

 

The fuzzes in Helix sound as they should, and that is very similar, if not the same as their counterparts. Those fuzzes they have modeled, with their ugliness, their farting, gating, glitching and artifacts, are, at the very least, in the ballpark of the most used and most recognizable fuzz sounds in rock (and other styles) history.

 

I'm all for new models, specially fuzzes, no, really, give me wamplers, earthquakers, catalinbreads, blackarts, malekkos, keeley, death by audio!, there are WONDERFUL pedals out there, some clones, some almost clones, and some that look for innovation...

I want all of them, in fact, more of everything!!

but people... be serious, it is not coherent to underestimate a Rectifier because it can't sound like a Twin Reverb, for fuzz's sake!

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I thought that was obvious, but a fuzz is not an overdrive, nor is it a distortion, or a booster. There are many kinds of fuzzes, but fuzz is fuzz. 

 

The fuzzes in Helix sound as they should, and that is very similar, if not the same as their counterparts. Those fuzzes they have modeled, with their ugliness, their farting, gating, glitching and artifacts, are, at the very least, in the ballpark of the most used and most recognizable fuzz sounds in rock (and other styles) history.

 

I'm all for new models, specially fuzzes, no, really, give me wamplers, earthquakers, catalinbreads, blackarts, malekkos, keeley, death by audio!, there are WONDERFUL pedals out there, some clones, some almost clones, and some that look for innovation...

I want all of them, in fact, more of everything!!

but people... be serious, it is not coherent to underestimate a Rectifier because it can't sound like a Twin Reverb, for fuzz's sake!

 

One definitely should not expect a fuzz to sound like an overdrive or any of the non-fuzz distortion pedals but I would argue that there are good fuzz sounds and harsh hard to listen to fuzz sounds. Of course that is somewhat subjective and beauty is in the ear of the beholder. I have been playing way too long to expect a dog to fly and more than willing to admit I just haven't dialed them in correctly but I have not been able to get a good tone out of the fuzzes on the Helix.  I am sure they are in there, just a bit more challenging for me than the other effects.   Fuzzes have always been one of the easiest effects to have sound like crud and I am finding the ones on the Helix to be no impediment to that  ;)

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I can understand the way Paolo feels about the fuzzes as they are so extreme on the Helix that I have not employed one since I initially tried and found them to be unusable. Could be that they just need the right impedance, EQ, and settings, pilot error, but I just found them to be wretched. I have never been a huge fan of fuzz to begin with although some players (Jack White leaps to mind in recent years) have managed to get a decent sound with them and a cheap one at that, he uses the Big Muff. Doesn't hurt that he has major studios and maybe a good producer or two to help him out with processing. I have to admit I have not tried the Wringer Fuzz yet. I will have to revisit the fuzzes, I generally prefer a Tube Screamer type overdrive with a good amp sound though.

i'm glad there is at least a person who has good ears.

The main complain is that they aren't tweakable if you low the fuzz parameter they sound worst but not quieter.

Helix has some great effects and some not so good.

  • Univibe perfect (i owned it once)
  • Electric Mistress good sound but not nails the original, (i owned it once)
  • other flangers good.
  • Choruses good
  • Tremolos not impressive maybe the last added is the best.
  • Overdrives good
  • delays very good. (i owned DL4 once)
  • Comps good
  • Eq good
  • Filters good
  • Pitch shifters not bad but need tracking improvements.
  • Synths i don't use them
  • Reverbs not bad but not impressive
  • Fuzzes  bad ( i own a Keeley Fuzzhead)
  • Leslies bad (not easy to use, muffled sound)
  • Wah good
  • Amps good
  • Cabs much better external IRs great sound improvemet. (3Sigma great)

Obvously i don't talk about the things that are already good, i'd like they improve the sound of the things that aren't good.

 

in this video he'd chosen obvousily the best effects to compare...not fuzzes.

I agree they are the best effects in Helix but not all of them are so good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiDHccRCpoM

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My $0.00002...

 

Not sure if this thread is making a distinction between fuzz and overdrive, but I find a bunch of the blocks in that general area super usable and useful. For more like organic overdrive than "fuzz", whatever that means exactly, Minotaur, Compulsive Drive, Hedgehog, Teemah, and KWB all find pretty common use with me, really like them all. Vermin and Scream less so but still useful.

 

If fuzz here means intentionally artificial semi-bent stuff, I've used Tycoctavia, Wringer, and Arbitrator some, and I agree, they're so overdriven even with gain all the way down that they're hard to get anything fun out of. I have had some decent results adding post- and/or pre- EQ, and probably reducing the signal before them quite a bit. Industrial and I just have not got on at all, probably me, but fact; too bad for me, many people seem to really like the original.

 

Re rotary speakers, as you say they all have have very little high end, but that's pretty much reality I think, or at any rate like all of the VST versions I have, which is several. Mixing them with a standard cab sometimes works well. The Fender, which is itself an emulation, seems the best of them to me, weird.

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winding down the guitar volume knob (on your guitar) can clean up the fuzz's quite well .. they are a little noisy still tho

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I also feel that the fuzz is one area that is in dire need of attention. I just spent the last 2 hours building a patch around my '65 Deluxe Reverb patch to tone match a Way Huge "Swollen Pickle". It is perfect and involved me using two fuzzes at the same time with different settings with a transparent Klon for taste . I would be overjoyed if Line 6 would eventually add the Swollen Pickle to the Helix, but for now, i'm good.

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I'd be interested in seeing that patch, if you're thinking of posting it :)

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I love Triangle Fuzz and Industrial Fuzz. Sound realistic compared to the real thing!

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After getting an MXR La Machine, the Helix fuzzes are just ugly by comparison. 

 

The La Machine is so warm and creamy and delightful. 

 

I'm sure it's a copy of some well known fuzz, but nothing in the Helix is even similar. I find them very unusable. 

 

I feel that way about the drive pedals in general. They seem extremely lacking compared to previous Line 6 units. 

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After getting an MXR La Machine, the Helix fuzzes are just ugly by comparison.

 

The La Machine is so warm and creamy and delightful.

 

I'm sure it's a copy of some well known fuzz, but nothing in the Helix is even similar. I find them very unusable.

 

I feel that way about the drive pedals in general. They seem extremely lacking compared to previous Line 6 units.

I personally think the overdrives and distortions in the Helix are significantly better than earlier offerings. Just much more responsive, in general. I also think it's nice to have a couple transparent options, like the Klon and Timmy. The really nice thing is that they act just like the real thing in front real amps.

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I could not tell a difference in the vjd A/B pretty impressive.

I am not a fuzz user myself so doubtful I will ever use them much. I do love good drives and I farm out to my better pedals in the loop if nothing works quite right. 

Personally I prefer more updates on the back end effects and amp model tweaks over more fuzz stuff which is not my thing anyway. The Helix for me is all about the amp models the notion it has decent effects is just icing. 

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Ive got the Big Muff (Triangle) in my chain against four different amps and it reacts very differently on each. I had a big Muff back in the day and it too was very sensitive to the amp. I remember as  kid rehearsing with my Big Muff and a New Zealand amp called a Jansen 8-50 - sort of a hifi twin. Sounded great - fat and warm.  Then we got a guest spot at a club playing though the house bands gear (a Holden 100 - another  great NZ amp) the Muff sounded thin and horrible...go figure.

I was particularly surprised as the guitarist in the band (Odyssey, a great glam rock group) had a 1961 Les Paul SG style plugged straight in to his Holden and got one of the fattest tones Ive ever heard. 

 

...anyway as for the Triangle fuzz - I like it a lot and it sounds like I expect a Big Muff to sound like.

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I personally think the overdrives and distortions in the Helix are significantly better than earlier offerings. Just much more responsive, in general. I also think it's nice to have a couple transparent options, like the Klon and Timmy. The really nice thing is that they act just like the real thing in front real amps.

So why not a decent mild creamy fuzz? among all acid and noisy.

So a user can choose.

You've forgotten KWB overdrive is the mildest.

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Ive got the Big Muff (Triangle) in my chain against four different amps and it reacts very differently on each. I had a big Muff back in the day and it too was very sensitive to the amp. I remember as  kid rehearsing with my Big Muff and a New Zealand amp called a Jansen 8-50 - sort of a hifi twin. Sounded great - fat and warm.  Then we got a guest spot at a club playing though the house bands gear (a Holden 100 - another  great NZ amp) the Muff sounded thin and horrible...go figure.

I was particularly surprised as the guitarist in the band (Odyssey, a great glam rock group) had a 1961 Les Paul SG style plugged straight in to his Holden and got one of the fattest tones Ive ever heard. 

 

...anyway as for the Triangle fuzz - I like it a lot and it sounds like I expect a Big Muff to sound like.

in the virtual world of Helix do you want all the issue of the real world?

I'd like to have always the creamy big muff not the thin and orrible sounding.

Do you agree?

A couple of question.

Do you think Helix big muff is creamy?

do you can tweak it or is always full throttle?

make no bones

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in the virtual world of Helix do you want all the issue of the real world?

I'd like to have always the creamy big muff not the thin and orrible sounding.

Do you agree?

A couple of question.

Do you think Helix big muff is creamy?

do you can tweak it or is always full throttle?

make no bones

well no...it doesn't hiss as much.

I do prefer the full creamy tones.

Yes.

Never full throttle.

No Bones.

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So why not a decent mild creamy fuzz? among all acid and noisy.

So a user can choose.

You've forgotten KWB overdrive is the mildest.

 

You know, we all hear you loud and clear... :D  You don't like the fuzzes...

 

But my comment wasn't even talking about them. I was talking about the overdrives and distortions, and my point was that I like them better than previous Line 6 offerings... (I actually like the new fuzzes better as well). I'm not sure how you're taking that anything to do with the fuzzes.

 

As I said earlier, I have no problem with Line 6 making new ones. I hope they do. I do think that if they decide to model specific ones, it would be hard to narrow it down because there are so many out there. Personally, I would like to see the Black Art Toneworks Pharaoh, as it's a pretty versatile fuzz and can give a whole range of tones. I like the fact that you can choose between or blend the silicon and germanium clipping modes.

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Interesting thing to try:

 

Check out the KWB with everything on 10 except the Asymmetrical (which i personally keep on 0)

 

Change both Push and Pull to Germanium and you get a more open sounding Fuzz Face that cleans up nice (especially in front of a JTM45)

 

The gain range on the KWB between 8 and 10 can tailor the amount of fuzz to quite a nice gradient. 

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Interesting thing to try:

 

Check out the KWB with everything on 10 except the Asymmetrical (which i personally keep on 0)

 

Change both Push and Pull to Germanium and you get a more open sounding Fuzz Face that cleans up nice (especially in front of a JTM45)

 

The gain range on the KWB between 8 and 10 can tailor the amount of fuzz to quite a nice gradient.

Thank you I will try it.

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just tried a kwb and compulsive drive combo - something to use with the guitar volume rolled back- sweeter than the fuzzface and not as noisy but a somewhat similar cleaned up fuzz sound 😉ðŸ‘

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Paulo, what kind of guitar/guitars are you using with the helix fuzz pedals?

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Paulo, what kind of guitar/guitars are you using with the helix fuzz pedals?

Stratocaster Fender Highway one but super-customized by myself with

P.U. Bridge: SUHR SSV HB

P.U. Middle and Neck: Van Zandt Vintage plus. S.C.

Callaham bridge

Sperzel Machine heads

 

 

Telecaster: Squier Classic Vibe '50 butterscotch.

Almost stock only

Gotoh Bridge 3 vintage brass saddle but open like a modern bridge

Gotoh Machine heads.

Great cheap but well sounding guitar.

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I have had good luck with the fuzzes going into a very clean jc120 model.

 

When i try to add fuzz to an already overdriven amp model, i get results that always sound bad to my ears.

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I just got the helix and I am very happy with it. Although I have an interesting contribution to this thread. I looked at the Line 6 tutorial video about the Hendrix sound and dialed in the Arbiter as in the video. I had band rehearsal that night and tried using this fuzz in front of my mesa boogie roadster clean tone at a pretty good volume. While it sounded perfect at low-volume in my apartment... it did not do well as a front of the amp, loud, live effect. Was getting weird overtones on the lower strings that were almost pitch shifting and making it sound out of tune and was not cutting through the mix. I still have some messing around to do but the Wampler velvet fuzz for live sound at this point in my opinion is superior to what’s in the helix. Granted there may be some parameters I am missing. And that really is why the helix such a wonderful thing the ability to adjust such parameters and understand your affects better than before. I’d like to say this is just one little thing that I was a little bummed about... it might even be my fault and not the Helix... the rest of the effects through the helix the choruses and delays run with four cable method through my mesa are incredible and the Helix is worth its price tag.

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There are a whole bunch of distortions and overdrives in the Helix, many well worth checking out. The Arbiter is definitely not one of my faves.

 

Compulsive, Minotaur, Vermin, KWB, Teemah, Hedgehog, Kinky Boost, those are some I dig way more than the Arbiter, no matter who used what on a record :)

 

I've barely explored the new old stomps yet, but so far I think I think I like the Octave Fuzz more than any of the newer, more boutique-y ones in that vein.

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I'm a very enthusiastic fuzz advocate. As such I'm fuzzy with fuzzes.

im trying real hard but I just can't get the sound of my BigMuff (USA 90's) in Helix. Triangle fuzz is very, very close but I find it lacks harmonics... there's something definitely missing in the high end. It just doesn't cut through that well. Very noticeable when it's the basis of your sound. I play 3 string CGB, so it's more thick power chords kind of thing. The real BigMuff just fills up the space a lot more.

Ive been reading about putting it in an FX loop, some say it doesn't sound right. Impedance, responding to guitar ... big issue for me.

Another thing I might try is adding some mild OD after the Triangle , see if it helps with the high end/harmonics. I tried a dual shifter to add highs before the fuzz, it sort of helped but wasn't quite right. 

I obviously tried all fuzzes, and none cut through quite like my real BigMuff, I'd say they lack high end in general, they sound a bit muffled IMHO. 

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17 minutes ago, tahiche said:

I'm a very enthusiastic fuzz advocate. As such I'm fuzzy with fuzzes.

im trying real hard but I just can't get the sound of my BigMuff (USA 90's) in Helix. Triangle fuzz is very, very close but I find it lacks harmonics... there's something definitely missing in the high end. It just doesn't cut through that well. Very noticeable when it's the basis of your sound. I play 3 string CGB, so it's more thick power chords kind of thing. The real BigMuff just fills up the space a lot more.

Ive been reading about putting it in an FX loop, some say it doesn't sound right. Impedance, responding to guitar ... big issue for me.

Another thing I might try is adding some mild OD after the Triangle , see if it helps with the high end/harmonics. I tried a dual shifter to add highs before the fuzz, it sort of helped but wasn't quite right. 

I obviously tried all fuzzes, and none cut through quite like my real BigMuff, I'd say they lack high end in general, they sound a bit muffled IMHO. 

Did you try the legacy? It has a treble knob that will give you high end.

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