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Tom Sholz a genius.


Paolo_Maina
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Preaching to the choir.  Been using Rock Modules since they came out.  I sold most of them when I got my Helix.

 

I still find it fascinating that his concept in the 80's was Full Range speakers on stage, and as the modules had cab simulators in them, send the Full Range signal to FOH.  No mic'd cabinets on stage.  

 

It seems it's taken a while for modelers to catch up.  He doesn't think much of digital, but least not publicly, but I'm sure he must be intrigued with the likes of AxeFX, Helix and Kemper, if not for sound, for a purely engineering standpoint.

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Used to have a Sustainor and Stereo Chorus/Delay. Got rid of them, which I sometimes still regret, soon after getting an HD500. I wonder what Mr. Scholz would think of something like Helix? All those blinking lights in the background reduced to something so small.

 

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Used to have a Sustainor and Stereo Chorus/Delay. Got rid of them, which I sometimes still regret, soon after getting an HD500. I wonder what Mr. Scholz would think of something like Helix? All those blinking lights in the background reduced to something so small.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1WemnsB98o

I'd like to hear his opinion about helix.

It should be great a video about tom scholz testing helix.

Glenn delaune's made a tom scholz preset

Imagine tom scholz plays Glenn's preset on Helix

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Preaching to the choir. Been using Rock Modules since they came out. I sold most of them when I got my Helix.

 

I still find it fascinating that his concept in the 80's was Full Range speakers on stage, and as the modules had cab simulators in them, send the Full Range signal to FOH. No mic'd cabinets on stage.

 

It seems it's taken a while for modelers to catch up. He doesn't think much of digital, but least not publicly, but I'm sure he must be intrigued with the likes of AxeFX, Helix and Kemper, if not for sound, for a purely engineering standpoint.

Glenn's just made a tom sholz preset on helix.

I think is perfect

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I'd like to hear his opinion about helix.

It should be great a video about tom scholz testing helix.

Glenn delaune's made a tom scholz preset

Imagine tom scholz plays Glenn's preset on Helix

 

Yea, I saw the clip of Glenn demoing that preset. Sounded exactly what I remember that sound to be.

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So I just auditioned the Tom Scholz / Boston preset from Glenn.  To be fair it's a "Boston" tone, not necessarily a Tom Scholz tone, but I'm not knocking it as that is what it is supposed to be.  So far just listened via headsets.  One might ask what's the difference between a Tom Scholz tone and a Boston tone, and well it's that this preset is what the ALBUM recording sounds like..   not necessarily exactly what Tom sounds like live.  And that's ok.  

 

I was looking more for Tom's sound pre-mastering because I don't play any Boston songs, but I use that tone. I may be able to use this preset to create the sound I'm looking for, I'll just have to see.  The key is the IR that is included.    It's a real education in tone and what Glenn does to just enable and disable that one IR.

 

It would be very cool if Line6 modeled some of the Rockmodules, or just a Rockman X100 for that matter, but after listening to this preset, I'm thinking I can re-create the Rockman sound at some point just for fun using snapshots to hit the Dist, Edge, Cln1 and Cln2 with Chorus and Echo..

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has anyone tried these included ir's with other amps? my understanding is that they aren't actually cabinet IR's but Glenn has made some sort of tone shaping IR .? correct me if i'm wrong.. i'm just interested to see if you can get a bit of mileage from them, using them outside the preset they are meant for..

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has anyone tried these included ir's with other amps? my understanding is that they aren't actually cabinet IR's but Glenn has made some sort of tone shaping IR .? correct me if i'm wrong.. i'm just interested to see if you can get a bit of mileage from them, using them outside the preset they are meant for..

Yes absolutely you can use my Custom IR's on other patches. I've done that with great results. Thank you guys.

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You can submit the Rockman module requests on ideascale - I have personally been wanting to have an X100 and the sustainer for a long time (yes - intentional pun).

 

Wow. Home run if you could create a Rockman XP100 clone.

 

I own that amp and it is/was fantastic.

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I often regret (and kick myself) for selling my Rockman XP100 years ago.  For those who never saw one, it looks like this.  The handle served as a means of attaching the two halves of the amps/cabs, which could be separated.  Sounded fantastic.   I'm a dumbass for selling.

 

 rockman-xp-100-1444461.jpg

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Hah, people sure are different :) Personally, nothing else, no offense to anyone, I always hated the Rockman sound. No bottom, no top, super compressed and artificial, designed to take up a very specific frequency range in a mix, only. In my circles, "sounds like a Rockman" was a mortal insult. Great records, and obviously his sounds worked in really well in that context, but I never in a million years aspired to play through anything like that, unless you were doing Boston covers.

 

I still have his MIDI-driven-relays footswitcher thingy, haven't used it in years.

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Hah, people sure are different :) Personally, nothing else, no offense to anyone, I always hated the Rockman sound. No bottom, no top, super compressed and artificial, designed to take up a very specific frequency range in a mix, only. In my circles, "sounds like a Rockman" was a mortal insult. Great records, and obviously his sounds worked in really well in that context, but I never in a million years aspired to play through anything like that, unless you were doing Boston covers.

 

I still have his MIDI-driven-relays footswitcher thingy, haven't used it in years.

 

The Rockman tone was designed specifically to fit in a specific frequency range. That was the point. He designed it to fit the sound in his head, plus fit in the frequency spectrum that was left over after all the layering of the mixes. Then they tweaked it a bit more in post production to get that Boston sound.

 

I used them for years and loved them, but eventually the tone got a bit dated for what I was doing and I went the way of overdriven Marshalls, Laney, etc. 

 

I still dig the tone, but it doesnt fit what I am doing. Tom is a genius engineer though. All the mods he does to his guitars and gear are fascinating.

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Hah, people sure are different :) Personally, nothing else, no offense to anyone, I always hated the Rockman sound. No bottom, no top, super compressed and artificial, designed to take up a very specific frequency range in a mix, only. In my circles, "sounds like a Rockman" was a mortal insult. Great records, and obviously his sounds worked in really well in that context, but I never in a million years aspired to play through anything like that, unless you were doing Boston covers.

 

I still have his MIDI-driven-relays footswitcher thingy, haven't used it in years.

I hear ya. Giraffes are cool too...doesn't mean I want one in the house, though. ;)

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Hah, people sure are different :) Personally, nothing else, no offense to anyone, I always hated the Rockman sound. No bottom, no top, super compressed and artificial, designed to take up a very specific frequency range in a mix, only. In my circles, "sounds like a Rockman" was a mortal insult. Great records, and obviously his sounds worked in really well in that context, but I never in a million years aspired to play through anything like that, unless you were doing Boston covers.

 

I still have his MIDI-driven-relays footswitcher thingy, haven't used it in years.

 

What a lot of people don't realize is the gear like the Rockmodules didn't have to have "that" sound.   You could actually make quite a few powerful tones but unless you went with a full rack setup, things were limited.  The Rig I used the longest was an XPR with a Lexicon MPX-1 for the reverbs and delays.  But there were still things that I couldn't do like bypass the compressor easily.  At the time, a lot of folks didn't understand they needed to use full range, flat response, speakers too as there was/is a cab modeler in the sustainer.

 

Here is my collections of Rockman Gear as of last year.  Most is gone now.  Only have the A12 amp and I still have my X-100, Bass Rockman a sustainer and eq.  It also doesn't have any pictures of my full rack... they didn't have camera's on phones back then.

 

http://baronaudio.com/rockman/

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that is a cool Rockman collection!  +1 to MelThorpe - a lot of people used the Rockman modules to create "their" sound, including Def Leppard (all over the Hysteria album), Tony MacAlpine (Driver/Maximum Security Era), and even heavier bands like Fates Warning - the Awaken the Guardian & No Exit Album were a Rockman Sustainer module into a non-master volume Marshall. 

 

http://line6.com/data/6/0a06438910cc557b654e1d76e9/application/pdf

 

the ironic thing to me is that Scholz actually used Marshalls on the first two Boston Albums, here is a tone template from various research we have collected over the years:

 

http://line6.com/data/6/0a0643393d8a57b75fca1d68c/application/pdf

 

I remember reading that he also used some pretty heavy compression and an an EV RE-16 mic,  in his basement ;)

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has anyone tried these included ir's with other amps? my understanding is that they aren't actually cabinet IR's but Glenn has made some sort of tone shaping IR .? correct me if i'm wrong.. i'm just interested to see if you can get a bit of mileage from them, using them outside the preset they are meant for..

here is how its done

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Here is my collections of Rockman Gear as of last year.  Most is gone now.  Only have the A12 amp and I still have my X-100, Bass Rockman a sustainer and eq.  It also doesn't have any pictures of my full rack... they didn't have camera's on phones back then.

 

http://baronaudio.com/rockman/

Wow, never even heard of a lot of that stuff, cool!

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that is a cool Rockman collection!  +1 to MelThorpe - a lot of people used the Rockman modules to create "their" sound, including Def Leppard (all over the Hysteria album), Tony MacAlpine (Driver/Maximum Security Era), and even heavier bands like Fates Warning - the Awaken the Guardian & No Exit Album were a Rockman Sustainer module into a non-master volume Marshall. 

 

The list is waaaaay longer and pretty much includes any rock album in the 90's.  Santana, ZZTop, Satriani, Genesis, Blue Oyster Cult (actually used a rockman headcase on tour), etc..  The Rockman sustainer and EQ modules are the swiss army knives of many studios even today.   

 

 

that is a cool Rockman collection!  +1 to MelThorpe - a lot of people used the Rockman modules to create "their" sound, including Def Leppard (all over the Hysteria album), Tony MacAlpine (Driver/Maximum Security Era), and even heavier bands like Fates Warning - the Awaken the Guardian & No Exit Album were a Rockman Sustainer module into a non-master volume Marshall. 

 

http://line6.com/data/6/0a06438910cc557b654e1d76e9/application/pdf

 

the ironic thing to me is that Scholz actually used Marshalls on the first two Boston Albums, here is a tone template from various research we have collected over the years:

 

http://line6.com/data/6/0a0643393d8a57b75fca1d68c/application/pdf

 

I remember reading that he also used some pretty heavy compression and an an EV RE-16 mic,  in his basement ;)

 

Those diagrams are only the first half of the signal chain.  The "sound" came from using a Mic on the cab with a 6 band MXR EQ on it to record or to FOH... basically.

 

The Sustainer came about as a way to get that sound consistently..  It has compression, EQ, Distortion, and a Cab Sim built into it... for starters.  "Rockman gear was designed with one thing in mind: since the final objective is to make records, or to get a correct global band sound on stage, let’s directly design guitar gear that will sound good in a mix." 

 

Check out .. http://rockman.fr/Menu/Menu.htm  or these articles.. http://www.perfectsoundrockrefurbs.com/articles.html

 

Here is the block diagrams of the X-100 and Sustainer from the .fr site.

Sustainor_Structure.gif

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  • 4 months later...

Hi i am nowbuilding a stereo rig with a rockman xpr for home use what speakers does any one reccommend to get the full range make and size 8 ohm i hear 60 kz - 20 khz is a minimum requirement so will i need to basically build my own PA system say 50 watts a side for home use with a carver rack amp or a linear amp can any of you guys help? As this xp can basically make any tone clean to dirty as are genius hero Tom Sholtz intended

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Preaching to the choir. Been using Rock Modules since they came out. I sold most of them when I got my Helix.

 

I still find it fascinating that his concept in the 80's was Full Range speakers on stage, and as the modules had cab simulators in them, send the Full Range signal to FOH. No mic'd cabinets on stage.

 

It seems it's taken a while for modelers to catch up. He doesn't think much of digital, but least not publicly, but I'm sure he must be intrigued with the likes of AxeFX, Helix and Kemper, if not for sound, for a purely engineering standpoint.

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I saw Boston on their first tour opening for Bob Seger.Tom was in overalls setting up their gear with one other guy helping.

Marshalls/ giant Hammond organ,the whole enchilada.They were amazing and after their set he also tore it all down.

Bob Seger had the flu or something and sucked.

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Hi i am nowbuilding a stereo rig with a rockman xpr for home use what speakers does any one reccommend to get the full range make and size 8 ohm i hear 60 kz - 20 khz is a minimum requirement so will i need to basically build my own PA system say 50 watts a side for home use with a carver rack amp or a linear amp can any of you guys help? As this xp can basically make any tone clean to dirty as are genius hero Tom Sholtz intended

 

Any decent full range powered cabs will do.   The info on what the Rockman cabs had is at Rockman.fr or RockmanRefurb site.  I forget which.

 

You might need a little low and high cut on whatever you get...   

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If for home use and you don't require speaker grills to protect your studio monitors, check out the JBL LSR305 or LSR308. They're powered (so you won't need a separate power amp), they sound great, and are reasonably priced!

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So I got curious.

 

Article 18 talks about how to build the cabinets http://www.perfectsoundrockrefurbs.com/articles.html  but... you'll have to reverse engineer from this article and other articles on the page that just reference the "type" or model speaker, not the specs.  But you should look up the models.

 

But as I stated earlier, as there is a cab sim in the sustainer, as long as the speakers you use are somewhat flat response, and have a wider frequency response than a normal guitar sspeaker, you'll be fine.

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To my knowledge, if there is a sustainer circuit (which the XPR has) powered FRFR PA or FRFR monitor speakers should be fine.  

 

The Flat Response part of Full Range/Flat Response (FRFR) is what's important in all of this.  A quick search around will turn up that guitars generally operate from about 80hz and 1200hz with mostly harmonics and overtones up till about 8.5 kHz (8500 hz).   How much you chop off the top and bottom with EQ is subjective.  As the Rockman gear and most modelling gear using some sort of Cabinet Simulation, if the speaker response is flat between 80hz and 8500hz...  that's going to be fine.  In reality, most speakers have much wider range unless you introduce crossover circuits, so again... as long as it's flat so the Cab Simulator can do it's thing...  it will be fine.

 

Up until recently I had been running my ported 2 x 12, custom Genz Benz cab loaded with EV12L speakers.  Back in the day, if you wanted "Flat Response" speakers for guitar, these were the speakers.  Not full range, but flat.  Used this cab for years with Rockman gear, used it for about a year with the Helix powered by a QSC 100 watt stereo amp amp. Sounded great.

 

On a whim I got my NS10M Studio monitors out of storage and hooked up the same amp.  The extra wide frequency response of the full range NS10M (arguably not as flat as one would really like, but in that class).... the Helix shined.   Intead of being limited by the "guitar range" I can boost the upper-mids with clarity.  Additionally, I can play backing tracks through them at the same time.   So the big honk'n (heavy sucker) Genz Benz cab is in storage, and I just use the Studio Monitors.

 

YMMV but don't over think it.  JMHO but people put too much emphasis on "frequency range" when all the major brands of FRFR, and even the crap are about the same.  What sets one cab over another is quality of build, size of amp, any built in DSP, material of cabinet itself.   All that has more effect on sound than one cab having a 20hz to 20,000hz range and another having a 19hz to 19,000hz   range.   In fact it's not just FRFR..  As was noticed, the articles on those Rockman pages talk about speaker size.  Yep... most full range 15" speakers of a particular wattage have about the same range, most 5" speakers of a particular wattage have about the same range.  etc..  With everything else going on in the chain... a few HZ here (or hear) and there, doesn't mean whoop...  it's what enclosures you put those speakers in and what they are made out of that change the tone the most.

 

Again JMHO

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Hi Thank you MILES so much for your time and valuable knowledge i am better informed now after reading your reply  Thank you!


 


i have located  a company that specializes in PA systems i presume has flat response speakers stated full range with a driver do you think that these will be good enough to do the job? either XT-10 OR XT-15? this company offers excellent quality.  www.paudiothailand.com you can see there full range and reasonably priced too. i hope so to end my journey then next a good correct powered PA amp. bearing in mind this is for use in a room 30ft x 15 ft Your opinion before i order or not  i appreciate  so much. kind regards Stephen


 


 


http://www.paudiothailand.com/srs/index.cfm/products/product/?id=849


http://www.paudiothailand.com/uploads/pdf/products/Datasheet%20XT-10.pdf




72E643AD-155D-D235-07ED74A4BA282731.jpg



 


www.paudiothailand.com

The P Audio XT-10 is a compact professional sound reinforcement system designed for foreground/background applications. The 10 inch (254m




Hi Thank you  so much for your time and valuable knowledge i am better informed now after reading your reply  Thank you!


 


i have located  a company that specializes in PA systems i presume has flat response speakers stated full range with a driver do you think that these will be good enough to do the job? either XT-10 OR XT-15? this company offers excellent quality.  www.paudiothailand.com you can see there full range and reasonably priced too. i hope so to end my journey then next a good correct powered PA amp. bearing in mind this is for use in a room 30ft x 15 ft Your opinion before i order or not  i appreciate  so much. kind regards Stephen


 


 


http://www.paudiothailand.com/srs/index.cfm/products/product/?id=849


http://www.paudiothailand.com/uploads/pdf/products/Datasheet%20XT-10.pdf




72E643AD-155D-D235-07ED74A4BA282731.jpg



 


www.paudiothailand.com

The P Audio XT-10 is a compact professional sound reinforcement system designed for foreground/background applications. The 10 inch (254m



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I would go with some of the more common... read proven...  speakers.  Alto TS , JBL EON, QSC K series etc..  for low cost powered PA speakers.

 

The pAudio ones might be fine, but they don't look powered so you'll need an amp, and..  as discussed, specs are going to be similar...  might just want to go with something that folks have actually used for the application.

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Hi i have looked at the powered speakers Yamaha to achieve 60 -20 big money and prefer a separate linear PA power amp and use the Rockman Eq for tone that way its direct & clean as intended more power and lower cost here JBl crazy money and the others you mention would have to be imported

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Hi i have looked at the powered speakers Yamaha to achieve 60 -20 big money and prefer a separate linear PA power amp and use the Rockman Eq for tone that way its direct & clean as intended more power and lower cost here JBl crazy money and the others you mention would have to be imported

 

I guess I missed where you are located.  

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Hi yes i am in south east Asia but as most things today come from china its cheaper to come here than cross the Atlantic i am from England Manchester in fact i lived only 30minutes from Def Leopard and many more rockers so its good for me to have advice on the Rockman gear and friends who share the same interest as here no one has heard of it the sales men in the shops wasnt even born dont know the concept sound and now all they know is combos and a million pedals so thank you all Stephen

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