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Helix Full Amps Into DT In "Low Power" Mode is Awesome!!!


roscoe5
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DT owners, you can run FULL Helix amp models into a DT amp in "low power" mode and get amazing results!!!

Consider this Line 6 DT info...

What’s low-power mode?
Perfect for recording or quieter gigs, low-power mode lets the HD modeling technology provide both preamp and power amp tones. You can perform with all the grit and gain you need without the volume that normally comes with it.

DT low power mode doesn't have to be low volume level. Try this...

  • Put DT amp in LPM,
  • Set DT the master volume to about 25-50%
  • Set the output of the end of your Helix signal path to Digital, assuming you are using L6 Link out of Helix to DT.
  • Boost the Digital output level to about +15-20db
  • Pop in a Helix full amp model and ease up the volume knob to about 50%.
  • You can still control DT Class A/AB and Pentode/Triode in LPM if you want to go deeper. You can even control the topo I-IV via MIDI and DT Edit if you really want.  The DT Presence control is still active too and influences the power amp. 50-75% up works for me.  All of the DT power amp controls do have much less effect in LPM with Helix full amp models, but you do still hear some minor differences between the modes.
  • For Helix XLR to FOH, split the path before the Digital output, put in a cab or IR, set the output of that path to XLR. You can set the headphones to just monitor XLR too for patch creation, etc. In global settings.  I believe this is an issue for a lot of DT owners running Helix preamps to DT trying to get a good Helix tone to FOH without Helix power amp models.

In DT LPM, There is lot's of room for adjusting the contribution of Helix power amp and the DT power amp to the sound. If you want more Helix power amp, turn up the Digital out and/or Helix volume and turn down the DT master, and vice versa for more DT power amp sound.

I will probably never go back to Helix pres-only into DT after this.

I've been working with my Helix DT50, Spider Valve HD100, and SS amp all day studying the intricacies and functionalities and comparing tones of each. If you want the gory details and pain of my write up that led to this revelation, go to this thread...

http://line6.com/support/topic/22199-helix-and-dt50-hidden-parameters-and-dtsvss-amp-comparison/

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Eh, it's a workaround to try to replicate what (I think) DT was doing with the HD amps, both built in and from HD500x.  I really think there is a bit of HD power amp modeling that always comes through the DT50 at any volume or LPM mode.  It's not just HD preamps in the DT heads.

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I haven't bothered playing with LVM mode on my DT25, but I generally run full amp models as opposed to just the pres with it. I just prefer the tone I guess. Also, I have a Mesa Cab Clone, so if I want to manage my volume I usually just dummy load the head into it and feed a signal back into my Helix for IRs/Cabs and into my monitors or Alto TS110.

 

Just curious Roscoe, do you ever get take a break from all your Helix tonal "mad scientisting" and play for yourself. Not that I don't (and I'm sure the community) appreciate all your experimentation but I'm sure we'd understand if you just wanted to kick back and enjoy the fruits of your labour.

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Ha! Hey, c'mon now...I went on a little posting hiatus last month when the gigs were rolling in ;)  

 

Actually had no gigs this month and cancelled rehearsals due to a bandmate's personal obligations, so I went back to the woodshed with Helix to get ready for a few in September.  

 

Maybe I'm the minority, but I was REALLY disappointed with Helix preamps into DT50 versus other ways to run Helix full amp models. Plus getting Helix to FOH with only preamp models is almost a dealbreaker. I found that while you can run Helix full amps into DT in full power mode, you could just barely turn the DT volume up before the DT power amp started overpowering the Helix amp models and muddying things up.  LPM gives you a wider scale/resolution of adjustability to fine tune the balance between Helix amps and the DT power amp.

 

Now I really need to IR the DT power amp (different topos?)>Mesa 212 to get a perfect IR match to FOH.  I guess I can keep those to myself if nobody wants them ;)

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DT owners, you can run FULL Helix amp models into a DT amp in "low power" mode and get amazing results!!!

 

If you want the gory details and pain of my write up that led to this revelation, go to this thread...

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/22199-helix-and-dt50-hidden-parameters-and-dtsvss-amp-comparison/

Sweet!!! Yeah, I messed about a little with LVM and realized it was acting more like an input pad, wasn't changing things tonally much; very different function that when using it with HD500 in LVM.

 

For some reason LVM defeats the FX loop on the DT25 in LVM, if I am remembering correctly..

 

Way cool you are messing with Helix and DT25 like this! I am going to read that post you wrote; next time I am at the jam spot where my DT25 has been staying will give this another try.

 

Thanks!!!

Cheers!

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I found that while you can run Helix full amps into DT in full power mode, you could just barely turn the DT volume up before the DT power amp started overpowering the Helix amp models and muddying things up. LPM gives you a wider scale/resolution of adjustability to fine tune the balance between Helix amps and the DT power amp.

 

Yes! I can't imagine how loud DT50 must be; DT25 is stupid loud when running L6link from Helix!.. Gotta try this; I didn't dig in as deep and gave up really quick trying to do Helix preamps to DT back to Helix to IR, or Helix cab, etc.

 

I was liking Helix too much without limiting it just to incorporate the DT. So It just use patches designed to be used FRFR; full amps, with cabs, ir, etc.

 

I've run the Glenn patches, Fremen's stuff, they all sound killer into DT!

 

I also bypassed everything on the DT first using DTedit; though I don't know how much that really makes a difference; since I am not using the DT25 XLR out.

 

I am thinking with all of the DT preamps and cabs bypassed, LVM just acts as a dB cut or volume pad somewhere in the signal; I don't think it actually lowers the poweramp power.

 

I am guessing Helix via L6link is hitting DT as a hot signal and going to LVM gives more headroom so you can crank the actual DT tubes more; though not too much or you start to over color the Helix modeling.

 

Keep on with the reports! Definitely digging this

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I also bypassed everything on the DT first using DTedit; though I don't know how much that really makes a difference; since I am not using the DT25 XLR out.

 

I am thinking with all of the DT preamps and cabs bypassed, LVM just acts as a dB cut or volume pad somewhere in the signal; I don't think it actually lowers the poweramp power.

 

I am guessing Helix via L6link is hitting DT as a hot signal and going to LVM gives more headroom so you can crank the actual DT tubes more; though not too much or you start to over color the Helix modeling.

 

Keep on with the reports! Definitely digging this

 

I used DT Edit to turn off all DT modelling,cabs,and mics as well even for the L6 Link connection.

 

From the Line 6 DT FAQs, DT low-power mode lets the HD modeling technology provide both preamp and power amp tones.

 

You can REALLY hear this when you just run the DT HD amp models into Helix IR blocks, eliminating Helix amps/preamps from the equation (guitar>DT50 guitar input>DT50 XLR out>Helix mic in>IR block>headphones).

 

In the DT XLR out, I can definitely hear just HD full amp models in LVM and more of the the transformer tapped physical DT power amp with a slight mix of HD power amp in full power mode.

 

With Helix preamps into DT full power mode there is something missing, and I believe that something is a slight bit of modeled power amp. Throwing DT into LVM with just Helix preamps sounded horrible. Then I tried Helix full amps and the gears started turning.

 

That's when I realized that the full HD amp models where present and utilized in DT, not just HD preamps.

 

I think the HD modelling architecture allows DT to have level/mix control of the power amp section of the HD models. HD power amp modeling is present in both full power and low power modes in the DT, just at different mix of physical and modeled power amps. LVM raises the mix of the modeled power amp, which was ok for HD modeling at low volume but great for Helix at all volumes.

 

Honestly, the sound of the DT50 power alone with any preamp is very brit el34. It makes sense why Line 6 would mix that with modelled power amps to get more versatility. It almost seemed that within DT alone, 6L6 based HD amps (Mesa, etc.) had more modeled amp mixed with DT power amp than el34 based HD amps (Marshall, etc.). Maybe I'm off base on this and someone from Line 6 can "line" me out, but it sure sounds that way to me.

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Honestly, I was considering selling the DT50 after my first go round with just Helix pre's. Now I can really see the potential with Helix full amps and DT50 LVM.

 

The MIDI and LVM workarounds are okay for now. I can't wait to see/hear Line 6's real Helix/DT integration. They don't release something until its polished, and I can see how this would be challenging. I've voted up every version of "Helix DT" integration I could find. They can wipe all HD models and re-architecture my DT amp for it for all I care. I dont need DT front panel knobs to control my Helix amps over L6 Link. Come on Line 6, I believe in you!

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Hi!

I have test now the LVM on the DT 25 and works really really good.

With the full power mode i was not happy and i get not the Sound that i want.

So i would Change the System from a Amp to a Atomic Reactor FRFR wedge .

Near my home someone will sell it for very cheap Money 210 Euros is more ore less

180 Dollars.

So i dont know what i should do.?

Should i buy it or not?

For my Variax and the Acoustic Simulation The FRFR Wedge are not Bad or?

Hope someone can help me and sorry for my bad english!

Cu

Fritz

 

P.s.:

Can i integrate the DT 25 and the Atomic to the Helix so that i can send the

Acoustic Simulation to the  Atomic and The E-Guitar Sound to the Dt25?

 

post-1193609-0-90698700-1472060654_thumb.jpg

post-1193609-0-87719900-1472060670_thumb.jpg

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P.s.:

Can i integrate the DT 25 and the Atomic to the Helix so that i can send the

Acoustic Simulation to the Atomic and The E-Guitar Sound to the Dt25?

Yep, you should be able to set that up pretty easily. You could set path one for your electric (choose your amp, fxs, etc) and set your output as either digital (if your using L6 Link) or 1/4" (if your using the amp's fx return). Then setup path 2 for your acoustic sim and feed that to your XLR outputs into the Atomic Wedge.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I ran across this Line 6 DT support FAQ page that really goes into detail on the DT normal and low volume modes, as well as some other great DT info. Differences with Spider Valve are also mentioned.

 

http://line6.com/support/page/kb/_/amplifiers/dt50dt25/dt50dt25-faq-r144

 

In summary, the following Helix and Line 6 tube amp configurations should work well

 

Helix preamp models + DT normal mode

Helix full amp models + DT low volume/power mode

Helix full amp models + Spider Valve (my current personal favorite)

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