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starbuck77

Just got the Helix - Quick Question

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Hi guys, 

 

just got my Helix last week. Have a quick question. 

 

So when I create a single signal path the path sounds fairly muffled. Only thing in the path is Amp/Cab combo and a reverb. If I move the reverb, or add anything to the path that creates a split path the volume is increased all around and its not as muffled. 

 

I have tried this with multiple combo's of amp/cab combos and amp + cab combos and its always the same, a single signal path is muffled and the second I bring something down that creates a split path the volume goes up and its not muffled...

 

thoughts? Suggestions?

 

Thanks!

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Maybe the reverb is creating the "muffled" sound you are hearing. If you pull the reverb down so that the path splits, you are basically now passing 50% of the dry amp and 50% of the wet reverb signal.

 

You might try adjusting the wet control of the reverb block to 50% or so when it's in the single path.

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thanks for the note back,

 

I actually noticed that even if the reverb (or separate cab which I replaced the reverb with) is off the signal completely, meaning its just the amp and cab on the main signal its muffled as well. At first I thought this was just how it is supposed to sound, until I added something else to the chain and that separate path was created.  Again if I add anything to the signal that I create a second path that's when everything clears up. This can't be the way its supposed to be....can it?

 

I feel like this has to be something simple that I'm overlooking. No idea why it clears up only if there is a deviation in the signal path, I am keeping these patches as simple as possible intentionally until I get a feel for how everything works together and to make it easier narrow down the troubleshooting of these types of things...

 

My setup includes strat straight into the Helix into a Friedman ASM-12 (which does sound good). Nothing else in the chain at all. I am really confused lol. 

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Interesting. I never noticed it before. I'll have to test it myself tomorrow in a new patch.

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Are you sure you are using an Amp (meaning the Amp Head without cab) and not the Preamp (which is not the complete Amp) ?

 

Edit : sorry, i missed the fact you used the combo Amp+Cab.

 

 

 

First : try to start from a new patch. I've experienced problems on a particular patch and they've been solved when i remade the patch from scratch. Use one of the template patches, cause your routing may explain the problem.

 

Second : Try to separate the Amp and the Cab (just to chek if there is any difference).

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All the patches I created were brand new patches, not edited presets.

 

I created a new patch with the amp, then added a separate cab, same situation, fairly muffled when on a single signal, I added a second cab that split the signal and things cleared up, and sounded very, VERY good I might add.  There has to be a simple explanation to this....

 

Could this just be the way it is? If it wasn't for work I'd spend all day playing around with this thing, all things considered it is really good. The Helix replaced my HD500x, which took me forever to get decent patches made, and I loathed messing around with it. I'll prob keep it because it's worth more to me then then what it would sell for on craigslist but I really don't see it getting much use except in a backup situation.    

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Could you try to open the template "4 tone switcher" (03D) and put an amp+cab in line 1, then 2, then 3, then 4 ?

 

Is there a tonal difference? Is it muffled? 

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Have you tried a Helix OS update yet? That might fix your issues. Software can get buggered even in the space shuttle.  ;)

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When I got it last week it had 2.01 loaded on it already. Is there a new patch out past that version? 

 

@Karis - I'll check out that template and see what the situation is if I use that. Thanks for the suggestion.

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Input and outputs set to guitar and 1/4 or whatever you're using.

There is also a a PAD and a NR Gate on the guitar in line might want to check these for off.

Guitar Impedance can also muffle the signal, best option I think is auto detect. 

I made a goof one time of plugging into the AUX instead of the GUITAR IN could not see the back panel clearly, thought something was wrong, just wrong jack. 

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Update - 

 

so, I noticed that the volume only increases if the signal is split after the cab, would that make sense under any scenario? 

 

also, notice that there is a wide volume difference between amp/cab types by default as I am cycling through them using the joystick, is that normal? With my volume at the same spot as I am cycling through them, there is a huge range in level of volume...normal? 

 

Thanks! 

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I can't respond to a signal spit after the cab although I suspect it may be related to the type of effect and possibly mixing in a stereo versus mono effect in such a split.

 

As far as the differences between amp/cab types, that's normal on all modelers.  Amps are modeled based on how their particular design responds to changes in channel volume, drive, EQ, and main volume, along with how the cabinet responds to it's input.  They're just modeling what a real amp would do and they all respond differently.  You can easily even these differences out by modifying the level setting on the final output block of your signal chain.

 

The best way I've found to deal with these differences is to start off with an amp/speaker combination that is closest to the sound you want to achieve.  Build out the signal chain until you get what you want, then level set it with your other patches using the output block level.

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I got mine with 2.01 loaded and some things didn't work right until I did a Global Reset.

That may help.

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more updates...

 

did a global reset, didn't do much.

 

Also,  I installed some ownhammer IR's, one more question.  I Started a new patch, if I add an amp, then drag the IR down from the main path to the split path it sounds fizzy. Is that normal? I was testing if the volume/muffled sound went away and with the IR on that lower path it sounds very bad.  Do the IRs not behave like the cab's in the helix? I was expecting that the volume would increase when I dropped it down there, instead it got very distorted thin, and tinny.  I'm hoping this is user error.

 

Also, the IR's sounded MUCH better in my headphones  than from coming out of my ASM-12....is that normal?

 

I like the helix but I am experiencing some issues that I am just hoping are my fault.

 

Thanks guys!

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I it is how I am picturing it, dragging the IR down, making a second split path would leave the original path with no cab, passing a cab-less signal through along with the split IR cab signal. It would certainly sound fizzy or harsh, like running a tube amp into a PA speaker.

 

This would be like setting a 50% mix on an affect, allowing 50% of the dry unaffected signal to pass.

 

This was the point I was trying to make on your original reverb block question.  

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I it is how I am picturing it, dragging the IR down, making a second split path would leave the original path with no cab, passing a cab-less signal through along with the split IR cab signal. It would certainly sound fizzy or harsh, like running a tube amp into a PA speaker.

 

This would be like setting a 50% mix on an affect, allowing 50% of the dry unaffected signal to pass.

 

This was the point I was trying to make on your original reverb block question.  

 

So you're 100% correct. I think that is absolutely what what happening, same with the reverb. I spent more time tinkering with it and I got a really amazing tone out of one of the IR's I loaded in, adding the EQ after the IR block, and just messing around with knobs until something sounded like a tasty treat. I think all this just my learning curve and figuring out how all this works together. I appreciate your (and everyone) help on this. 

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Anytime.

 

I think I stumbled around that split parallel path too a while before I really figured out how it worked and what I could do with it when I first got Helix in January. Be sure and check out the AB switch/mix capabilities on the split "block", which is right where the path lines diverge.

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