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What expression pedals do you guys use with the Helix?


Rocco_Crocco
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I have two of the metal ones if you mean this one. http://www.zzounds.com/item--ZOMFP02M?siid=122303

 

It's TRS. There are two ways it works. One, simply use a TS plug and change the polarity in globals, but then it doesn't work "full travel" but takes you to full about half way up (for the record, I like this). The other way is to create a custom TS to TRS cable where the "R" on the pedal end connects to the "S" on the Helix end. That works perfectly.

 

Hi Peter,

 

Just wanted to know if there's something I did wrong with my 'home made' TRS to TS cable, as it's still working at 50% throw?

I like the pedal and the halfway of the throw is not a deal breaker, but I wanted to shorten the original TRS cable anyway and as I'm not too afraid of soldering, I gave it a go.

 

With a TS plug on the original TRS cable, that came with the FP02M, I tested : 

  • R to S:-> Works same as a TS (or TRS) cable but with the 50% throw
  • R to T:-> Works but with Inverted polarity (seems logical) and still with 50% throw
  • T to S : -> Works but, like some have in this group, with full throw going from 0 - 100 - 0%

I must have missed something? Maybe there is some internal modification to apply to get the 100% throw? Do you know my error?

 

Anyway, like I said, it's not a biggie, but it would be nice if I can get it working, in case it's something simple I missed (I'm not exactly an electronics techie ;-) ) 

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Hi Peter,

 

Just wanted to know if there's something I did wrong with my 'home made' TRS to TS cable, as it's still working at 50% throw?

I like the pedal and the halfway of the throw is not a deal breaker, but I wanted to shorten the original TRS cable anyway and as I'm not too afraid of soldering, I gave it a go.

 

With a TS plug on the original TRS cable, that came with the FP02M, I tested : 

  • R to S:-> Works same as a TS (or TRS) cable but with the 50% throw
  • R to T:-> Works but with Inverted polarity (seems logical) and still with 50% throw
  • T to S : -> Works but, like some have in this group, with full throw going from 0 - 100 - 0%

I must have missed something? Maybe there is some internal modification to apply to get the 100% throw? Do you know my error?

 

Anyway, like I said, it's not a biggie, but it would be nice if I can get it working, in case it's something simple I missed (I'm not exactly an electronics techie ;-) ) 

 

What firmware version are you at? This is NOT my experience with the zoom pedal at all.

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What firmware version are you at? This is NOT my experience with the zoom pedal at all.

 

I'm at 2.11, just waiting for the 2.20 to come out to update to latest ;-)

 

I have the floor model

Edited by lulu_m
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I'm at 2.11, just waiting for the 2.20 to come out to update to latest ;-)

 

I have the floor model

 

 

Not sure what is happening. When I take an ordinary TS cable and replace one end with a TRS plug and solder the "R" connection to the "S" connection and leave the rest alone, my Zoom pedals work perfectly normally with Helix Rack.

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Not sure what is happening. When I take an ordinary TS cable and replace one end with a TRS plug and solder the "R" connection to the "S" connection and leave the rest alone, my Zoom pedals work perfectly normally with Helix Rack.

 

OK, I might try that than, as the difference is that I start of with a TRS cable (the one that came with the paddle) and soldered a TS plug on it! I might try to start with a TS cable and solder a TRS plug, like you did !? Will give it a try once, as for the moment no TRS plug in my drawers ;-)

 

Thanks for your help Pete!

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Before you do that, try this.

Take an ordinary guitar cable, TS -> TS.

Plug it in, but don't go all the way into the exp. Just enough for the first click.

If that works, then my custom cable will, because it's essentially the same thing.

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Before you do that, try this.

 

Take an ordinary guitar cable, TS -> TS.

 

Plug it in, but don't go all the way into the exp. Just enough for the first click.

 

If that works, then my custom cable will, because it's essentially the same thing.

 

Nope.. , the same thing.., it works, but it is at 100% half way

maybe they changed some specs (they don't mention specs on their site :-() It's a brand new fp02M?

 

Oh well.., I guess I have to live with it then .. ;-)

 

Thanks again Peter.

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Nope.. , the same thing.., it works, but it is at 100% half way

maybe they changed some specs (they don't mention specs on their site :-() It's a brand new fp02M?

 

Oh well.., I guess I have to live with it then .. ;-)

 

Thanks again Peter.

 

 

It is also possible that there is a difference in how this pedal behaves with the Rack vs. the Floor.

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Hmmm.

 

My custom cables, which I'm using with FV500H Exp pedals, are leaving the Ring out of the circuit. It's tip to tip and sleeve to sleeve, and TRS into the Pedal and TS into the Helix EXP. As side note; if I connect the TRS to the Helix EXP, and the TS on the pedal, I get that 50% @ 100% issue.

 

It's number 9 in this scheme;

 

cableguide.jpg

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Hmmm.

 

My custom cables, which I'm using with FV500H Exp pedals, are leaving the Ring out of the circuit. It's tip to tip and sleeve to sleeve, and TRS into the Pedal and TS into the Helix EXP. As side note; if I connect the TRS to the Helix EXP, and the TS on the pedal, I get that 50% @ 100% issue.

 

It's number 9 in this scheme;

 

cableguide.jpg

 

Isn't that nr9 the same as pluggin in a TS cable?

 

I guess for me the point is that I cut the TRS cable and used a TS plug on the Helix side, where the ring-wire is soldered with the sleeve on the S-part (so sleeve of TRS wire is also connected) Will try out the nr 11 in this scheme, when I'll have a TRS plug. Hopefully this will work finally.

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Just to be sure I'm explaining right. This is what I did to use the Zoom pedals.

 

my_version_of_9_zps9dxfrkbs.jpg

 

OK! That changes things for me. In my case I should connect the R of the TSR part to the T of the TS and leave the T of the TRS unconnected (S-S as usual) Didn't tried that one yet :-) Will try this first time, tomorrow morning! Thanks to you all :) Wil let you know ;-)

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Just to be sure I'm explaining right. This is what I did to use the Zoom pedals.

 

my_version_of_9_zps9dxfrkbs.jpg

 

 

As Peter mentioned earlier, this is the same as using a TS to TS cable and only plugging the cable in up to the first notch (click) on the expression pedal end (and all the way in at the Helix). ie. The Tip only goes in far enough to touch the ring contact, and the sleeve still contacts the sleeve. If you push the TS to TS cable all the way in, the R and S get shorted together by the long sleeve on the TS connector since both R and S contacts in the pedal will touch the sleeve.

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OK! That changes things for me. In my case I should connect the R of the TSR part to the T of the TS and leave the T of the TRS unconnected (S-S as usual) Didn't tried that one yet :-) Will try this first time, tomorrow morning! Thanks to you all  :) Wil let you know ;-)

 

Yes, although if you did this...
 

As Peter mentioned earlier, this is the same as using a TS to TS cable and only plugging the cable in up to the first notch (click) on the expression pedal end (and all the way in at the Helix). ie. The Tip only goes in far enough to touch the ring contact, and the sleeve still contacts the sleeve. If you push the TS to TS cable all the way in, the R and S get shorted together by the long sleeve on the TS connector since both R and S contacts in the pedal will touch the sleeve.

 

​It should have worked the same...

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Yes, although if you did this...

 

 

​It should have worked the same...

 

 

Arghh.., yes I tried that.., didn't work for me. Anyway.., will do the soldering to see if logic plays tricks with me, it's a quick job ... will let you know ;-)

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Well I guess here is the end of my little Zoom FP02M saga ;-)

 

I did the soldering as mentioned above : Connecting the ring cable to the Tip part of the TS plug, and keep the S to the S. Result this time --> 100-0-100% LOL

 

And as I was a bit fed up with my many unfortunate attempts to fight with the electronic laws in nature, I ended up with playing with the start orientation of the inside little plastic wheel (it has two blue dots on it to fine tune I guess


Go figure...., I have a great pedal that 'seems' to throw 100% OK now, without any soldering necessary and by just using a TS-TS cable ?!?! There is a slight 'slip' at the extremes, heel down and up, but so much less cumbersome for me now. (I use this pedal mostly to dial in the delays and reverbs on my patches)

 

The pot is 100K by the way ;-)

 

Thanks for all your inputs.

post-2326535-0-77756800-1486463357_thumb.jpg

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Don't you hate that when you are troubleshooting what seems to be electrical/electronic, and it lands up being a mechanical issue... I can't count how many times I have been down that similar road. 

 

Yes exactly ;-) Didn't even crossed my mind that the 50% throw I found every time, no matter what soldering combination, probably could have been related to a 'non optimal' mechanical calibration of the cog-wheel. Didn't wanted to test and resolder again as it's working fine for me now, out of the box with a TS-TS cable :-) A happy man with and some extra soldering experience..lol

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I use Dunlop's expression/volume pedal (Volume X, I think it's called). I had to make the TRS -> TS cable like people have mentioned above. I like the adjustable resistance, its durable, and it hasn't given me any trouble. The only downside I've found is that the rubber base resists adhering to velcrow strips. I've tried a number of ways of fastening it to my pedalboard. Right now I'm using two of the housing screws on the bottom to screw it onto a pedal riser I repurposed  from some abs plastic box I picked up at Home Depot.

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I've got two BOSS FV-500H pedals I love,  One I used as a volume pedal on my old rig, and I just picked up another.  Got them both used for $50 and $59 respectively.  I like the feel and range of motion of them, and they are solid as heck.  They are, as noted above TRS expression pedals. 

 

One method I used to connect to the helix was a TRS male to split TS female (red and black female 1/4" connectors) adapter, and then I connect a TS cable to the black female connector.  Works great.  Well, works great on one of them.  The other, (my old one), when using this connector, it can only range from 0 to 96% and it's kind of jumpy at the extremes.  When I used a straight TS cable and only plugged it in partway, I could get the full 100% range and without the jumpiness if the cable was just right.  Well, actually, it got to 100% at about 90% of travel (which was usable).  I'm not sure what the issue is.  I work with a bunch of EE's though, so when I get a chance I'll have them take a look at the pedal and I'll let you know what they say.

 

Only other problem with the pedals is the casting has these wings on the either side of the connector bay, which preclude the use of angle connectors.  But it wasn't hard to fix that by grinding the wings off my old pedal.  They are aesthetic only, so not a big deal.

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I've got two BOSS FV-500H pedals I love, One I used as a volume pedal on my old rig, and I just picked up another. Got them both used for $50 and $59 respectively. I like the feel and range of motion of them, and they are solid as heck. They are, as noted above TRS expression pedals.

 

One method I used to connect to the helix was a TRS male to split TS female (red and black female 1/4" connectors) adapter, and then I connect a TS cable to the black female connector. Works great. Well, works great on one of them. The other, (my old one), when using this connector, it can only range from 0 to 96% and it's kind of jumpy at the extremes. When I used a straight TS cable and only plugged it in partway, I could get the full 100% range and without the jumpiness if the cable was just right. Well, actually, it got to 100% at about 90% of travel (which was usable). I'm not sure what the issue is. I work with a bunch of EE's though, so when I get a chance I'll have them take a look at the pedal and I'll let you know what they say.

 

Only other problem with the pedals is the casting has these wings on the either side of the connector bay, which preclude the use of angle connectors. But it wasn't hard to fix that by grinding the wings off my old pedal. They are aesthetic only, so not a big deal.

 

The dead spots are by design. Contacted Roland last year and they explained the pedal range has been engineered to work 1:1 in the 1/127 range, so min and max aren't floored to mechanical limits. If you want to remove both IN and OUT dead spots you can use two piece of rubber. Works pretty good and it also remove that dry knock noise, when you hit the case with the huge pedal.

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The dead spots are by design. Contacted Roland last year and they explained the pedal range has been engineered to work 1:1 in the 1/127 range, so min and max aren't floored to mechanical limits. If you want to remove both IN and OUT dead spots you can use two piece of rubber. Works pretty good and it also remove that dry knock noise, when you hit the case with the huge pedal.

 

Hmm.  This was a pretty big dead spot when I was using a partially inserted TS cable.  With this set up it was not noisy and went from 0 to 100% from 0 to 90% of travel and stays at 100% from 90% to 100% of travel (not an issue really).  Then, when I use the TRS to dual female TS adapter, I get noisy response at the ends (it jumps around a percent or two for a bit), and it only goes from 0 to 96% of response, I can't get that last 4% of range out of the pedal.

 

The pedal I just bought works perfectly with the adapter cable.  It was sold used, but it looks brand new.

 

My old pedal has seen a lot of use and travel, I'm imagining my issues are just a dirty pot or 1/4" connector. 

 

But thanks for the input.  Technical details are always good to know and don't always make it into the manuals.

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Hmm. This was a pretty big dead spot when I was using a partially inserted TS cable. With this set up it was not noisy and went from 0 to 100% from 0 to 90% of travel and stays at 100% from 90% to 100% of travel (not an issue really). Then, when I use the TRS to dual female TS adapter, I get noisy response at the ends (it jumps around a percent or two for a bit), and it only goes from 0 to 96% of response, I can't get that last 4% of range out of the pedal.

 

The pedal I just bought works perfectly with the adapter cable. It was sold used, but it looks brand new.

 

My old pedal has seen a lot of use and travel, I'm imagining my issues are just a dirty pot or 1/4" connector.

 

But thanks for the input. Technical details are always good to know and don't always make it into the manuals.

You may have to adjust the mechanical linkage to get the full sweep you are looking for. The mechanical adjustment varies from pedal to pedal, and I am not familiar with the Boss.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I use Dunlop's expression/volume pedal (Volume X, I think it's called). I had to make the TRS -> TS cable like people have mentioned above. I like the adjustable resistance, its durable, and it hasn't given me any trouble. The only downside I've found is that the rubber base resists adhering to velcrow strips. I've tried a number of ways of fastening it to my pedalboard. Right now I'm using two of the housing screws on the bottom to screw it onto a pedal riser I repurposed  from some abs plastic box I picked up at Home Depot.

 

Flip the plate over and you get bare metal. I did this with mine, although now I have it back since I plan on using it as my exp 3. However, it looks as if I need to make a cable, too.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 months later...

I bought an Ernie ball vol jr 25k which worked initially. After 3-4 jam sessions, it wouldn't work and I had to unplug replug and reset the settings all over again. But it continued to be unstable. I am using a normal TS cable.

 

Any ideas?

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  • 4 months later...

I just was just trying to get the Dunlop Volume X to work as an expression pedal for the Helix. I found this thread and then I decided to tinkered around. I think I found a way to make it work. At least it is working for my rig. I am using a TRS-TRS cable. I removed the bottom plate from the DVP and there is a little blue button near the front of the pedal. I pushed it in. Then on the Helix I inverted the polarity of Exp 1 (where the DVP is plugged in) and it now works as it should. Not sure why, but it works. Bottom plated reinstalled and I'm back at it. Let me know if this works for anyone else.

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I took the crybaby off my old pedalboard that hasn't been used for years since I've been using modeling for quite a while now. Anyways, I took all the crybaby guts out of said cryababy and put this in it:

https://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/potentiometer-dunlop-10k-linear

 

I also found an old 1/4" in a box of amp/guitar parts, a guitar input jack would do.

 

I use the auto-wah function on the Helix so heel down or 0% is off.  I stuffed a spring under the pedal to make it always return to 0 with no pressure applied. Even though I didn't need to, I used a bit of Gorilla glue to keep the spring in place.

 

This solution has worked flawlessly. I use the crybaby-mod for all my wah effects and pitch shifting effects (my cover band does a number of RATM songs).

 

I still use the Helix(LT) onboard pedal to change effects parameters. Mostly Delay Mix and Feedback.

 

I have all the crybaby original guts in a ziplock baggie in case I ever want to restore it back to it's original intended purpose.

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