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pete1975

best I.R'S

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Hey guys,ive downloaded the ownhammer ir's and im not over impressed.

 

I find the cab sims much more realistic compared to the i.r's that sound to me like the mids have been sucked out a treble boosted,it gives an impression of clarity straight away that can be misleading.

They sound bright and punchy but nothing really like a miced up cab.

 

What are you guys using?

 

Im playing metal but not the typical mid sucked sound,more mid rangy and crunchy aka metallicas live sound these days

 

cheers

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Loving the Helix.


 


Created some cab IRs from a Friedman 2x12 (vintage 30s).


Wanted to share them with the community.


http://www.studiocat...an_2x12_cab.zip


 


Three basic mic positions for most of the IRs.


1 = center


2 = edge of cap


3 = cone


 


1o = center off-axis


2o = edge of cap off-axis


3o = cone off-axis


 


Multiple mics were used (SM57, SM7b, MD421, RE20, RE320, C414).


 


The center positions are bright.


If that's not to your liking, make sure to try the other positions.


 


Enjoy!


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When I first got Helix, I immediately loaded Ownhammer IRs, having been convinced by my reading and researching that the stock cabs were inferior. Initially I loved them, but eventually my ears started being acutely aware of the really dramatic EQ'd qualities of the different IRs. I heard exactly what you describe. After working with one for a while and dialing it in, I'd switch to another and it would sound like I was playing in a tin can. Over time my ears would acclimate, then switching would again would put me back in the tin can. It was the recent discovery that you could have IRs change with snapshots that really drove it home: I'd dial in one good sound, switch IRs and whatever else for the next snapshot and dial in another good sound, but in use switching back and forth left them both sounding hollow and "off" all the time.

 

So, long story short, I've gone back to the stock cab sims and haven't looked back. I've been using variations on this guys approach, which has me getting really nice results. I've posted this video a few times recently, but I think it's worth watching. It was a real game-changer for me. I recently did a full factory reset of my Helix due to troubleshooting some other stuff and haven't bothered to re-load any of my IRs. Don't know that I will.

 

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I'm using approach from above video and it works GREAT for metal (well, I do not play anything else :D )

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Maybe this is in the video, but you can get very close to IR sound with a 10 band or parametric eq adjustments at the end of your signal chain after the cabs.

 

I found some low and high boosts and abouut a 500Hz cut does wonders.

 

Also play with the Helix mics. The best sounding modeled mic may not be the one you would pick in the real world. The Helix 112 Dynamic mic is my main go to in Helix. I also use dual cab blocks with different mic at different positions with a mono eq block after to merge the L/R cabs and fine tune the sound.

 

I suspect the Helix mics are separate models from the cab and that Line 6 didn't capture every cab with every mic at every distance.

 

Maybe there is a base mic that was used for the cab model capture and the others impose a difference approximation between the source mic and target mic.

 

I'd love to know what the source mic(s) were ;)

 

Enough conspiracy theory though...good sound is good sound.

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When I first got Helix, I immediately loaded Ownhammer IRs, having been convinced by my reading and researching that the stock cabs were inferior. Initially I loved them, but eventually my ears started being acutely aware of the really dramatic EQ'd qualities of the different IRs. I heard exactly what you describe. After working with one for a while and dialing it in, I'd switch to another and it would sound like I was playing in a tin can. Over time my ears would acclimate, then switching would again would put me back in the tin can. It was the recent discovery that you could have IRs change with snapshots that really drove it home: I'd dial in one good sound, switch IRs and whatever else for the next snapshot and dial in another good sound, but in use switching back and forth left them both sounding hollow and "off" all the time.

 

So, long story short, I've gone back to the stock cab sims and haven't looked back. I've been using variations on this guys approach, which has me getting really nice results. I've posted this video a few times recently, but I think it's worth watching. It was a real game-changer for me. I recently did a full factory reset of my Helix due to troubleshooting some other stuff and haven't bothered to re-load any of my IRs. Don't know that I will.

 

I have some free Ownhammer, some paid for Sigma3, and maybe a redwires freebie as well....

I haven't even loaded into my Helix which I have had for a few months now.   The stock cabs are so good to me, that I don't see the need in using IRs.... At least not yet.  I guess I could try them out at some point, but for now I don't see a NEED to.

To be fair all of my stuff is in the context of a full mix, or simultaneously with a full song. 

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I've been using the built in cabs almost exclusively, the only exception so far being an awesome custom IR roscoe5 kindly built from an Amplitube preset I had with a cool dual cab setup.

 

I've amassed a medium-sized collection of free IRs, and every so often I take a spin through the subset I have loaded, looking for Cool Stuff. Did that a bit last night even.

 

Result last night was the same as it's been every time so far: Takes a long time and produces nothing conclusively great. Thing is, you can't really adjust the tone of an IR beyond low and high cut. It's more like rolling dice than designing a sound, to me. Dice with a huge number of not very predictable faces.

 

It is true that commercial libraries are better organized and more comprehensive than my kind of random heap o stuff. It's also true that if you do this a lot you'll no doubt learn something more than I currently know about what you like.

 

I can tell you a great way to audition IRs though: Pedal edit mode. I don't use it for anything else, but it's perfect for this. Select that parameter, then use the increment and decrement buttons to step through everything you have loaded. To move a long ways quickly but not very precisely, use the expression pedal.

 

I'm not done trying, and YMMV of course, yadda yadda, but that's where I keep landing with this.

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I should also say that I'm loving lots of the results I'm getting, both with the stock cabs, and that one custom IR. In other words, I don't find IRs necessary for making great sounds, they're just another set of options we have for this awesome tool.

 

FYI, if you're interested in that custom IR, I think it's posted here, and in roscoe5's collection, which I think is in Dropbox if I remember right.

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The only real advantage of using IRs (instead of the onboard Cabs) is to have complete control over the cab sound.

You can choose the Cab, the mic/s, the preamp, and how the mic is positioned.

 

I think the onboard Cabs are fine.  

IRs are just another way to customize the overall sound to your specific preferences.

Certainly not necessary... but (IMO) particularly nice

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I bought some Ownhammer IR's, but quickly became paralyzed by the number of options that you are given when you buy them. I then bought a some 3 sigma IR's, you don't get as many files with each cab type but they are all pretty usable. I also don't like the naming conventions for each file that Ownhammer comes in, I know you can change the names but it's just one more thing that I really don't want to do.  Nothing particularly wrong with OH's, but there is a lot to sift through, which can get time consuming (for me)

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The other attractive thing about IRs is that they make Helix effectively open-ended in that dimension. Double-edged sword though...

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Agreed. I think the "option" to use IR's should always be there, no matter how many (or none at all) IR's you choose to use.

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I am still on the fence. I've found a combination of 2 cabinets in the Helix that I'm working on that is open and alive, but not quit to where I can say better than IR's. Not all IR's are good but I have some blended versions of both mic and speakers that I really like. That and setting low cut between 50-120 and high between 5-10 really make a huge difference. I am extremely impressed with the Helix and find it is very close when comparing to my amps and Kemper. I was skeptical, but the skepticism left the first day.

 

 

 

 

I have a preset with the method above, a dual cab and an IR and I'm still working on the conclusion.

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The other attractive thing about IRs is that they make Helix effectively open-ended in that dimension. Double-edged sword though...

 

Agreed. I think the "option" to use IR's should always be there, no matter how many (or none at all) IR's you choose to use.

 

No doubt, I never intended any different. 

 

Matter of fact, I may even give a few a try here later on.  I personally am happy with the decision because it increases the potential user base beyond just what I want it for, and a larger user base usually correlates to longer and more focused support of the Helix platform. 

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I love IR i cant stand that digital sound stock cabs give and to me they never come close to the reality but IR does

I really dig that off-axis tone that isnt possible to get on stock cab which is mic:ed center and the only solution you get is to move the mic backwards a couple of centimeters. 

I like Ownhammer best BUT you have to EQ them i also always use the HP and LP filter to dial in the best tone.

 

And with some IR loading plugins you can load many IR and blend them togheter and then save the final tone as an IR and load it onto Helix.

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There's a thread on TGP about applying EQ to IR wave files on your DAW, and saving that as a new IR. Theory is that's more or less equivalent to applying that same EQ to the end result.

 

Anyone know if that's right?

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There's a thread on TGP about applying EQ to IR wave files on your DAW, and saving that as a new IR. Theory is that's more or less equivalent to applying that same EQ to the end result.

 

Anyone know if that's right?

 

That's what I have done to fine tune a few personal IRs and I believe what some of the custom patch sellers providing IRs are doing.

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Thanks, thought you'd probably weigh in on this.

 

Do you need to reprocess it in some other way(s) after applying EQ, or just capture the EQd version as a .wav file and you're done?

 

Is EQ the only processing that's valid to apply this way? Or could you for instance add some short ambience?

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My goto IR for for the Fender Deluxe is still the one Joost created in this post: http://line6.com/support/topic/16185-my-two-rockfender-clean-tone-presetir/?hl=joostalnico. Its warm and fat because of the close ribbon mics, and a good choice of speakers. This IR is a blend of different speakers and mics to produce the desired tone. This one sounds very nice to me. A lot of the 3Sigma and other IRs sound too bright and thin to me. This can be corrected using the low-pass and high-pass filters. Having extra high and low end that you can carve away does add some flexibility to the IRs.

 

Its also possible that Joost and I just happen to like a similar tone. Cab and Mic models or IRs can have a big impact on tone. There's a lot to sift through and that creates some challenges. But its worth the effort to experiment with what produces the tone for you, then understand why and experiment with slight modifications around a theme to refine your tone.

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Do you know which one that is specifically Jim? Last I saw, the original site where he hosted that stuff was gone, and he posted a Dropbox URL with a bunch of presets and IRs, including for that preset, but he wasn't specific about which IR he originally used.

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I just run the Helix amp model into a channel strip in my DAW, load the IR in a convolver plug in, add eq, re-mic, eq match, etc. plug in(s) and tweak to taste or tone match. Then I run a 20hz-20khz sine sweep through the whole DAW channel without the Helix amp with the plug ins active, capture the resulting wav file and deconvolve as usual.

 

2048 sample IRs aren't long enough for reverb/ambience.

 

I'm really into the IK Multimedia T Racks Mic Room plug in though to re-mic an IR with physical source mic to a target modeled mic. Very powerful and gives you some consistent additional options from a good single IR. I find that I may capture 10 mic positions, but there is often that one magical one. I love getting a ribbon 121 modeled version of a sweet spot 57 dynamic physical IR to blend with it.

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Does anyone have an idea on the DSP using the split blend for cabinets versus using the same with 2 IR's? Since some IR providers have mic specific files you could also use single mic combinations and blend them as with the stock cabs. I don't see that there is a DSP percentage indicator to know when it is nearing the limit.

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As someone else mentioned, 3Sigma Audio I.R.s are sounding pretty good right out of the box. I use them for modern metal, chug, djent sounds and I was immediately impressed with the 6 pack i bought. Diezel, Mesa OS, Engl being my faves. Minor tweaking here and there. Thats not to say I couldnt make the stock cabs sound great, just took more time to really tweak them. Theres a discount on 3Sigmas site if you buy 6, and I thought it was absolutely worth my money.

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I just bought a few of the 3Sigma packs. I use the OH and I have the Redwirez which I am not crazy about. We'll see how they sound. This is fun! :)

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I've try some IR from RedWirez, Ownhammer and Celestion. Celestion for me works very well, without too many options and good sound to start to fine tuning.

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Playing at gig volume level, after trying the stock cabs (maybe not enough) I haven't been very happy with them, because (just imho) I needed also a lot of additional equalization.

So at the end, for me, it's easier to try and find some good IRs for my use. I'd suggest to try some excellent free IRs that you can find here for example:

https://valhallir.at/en/shop/valhallir-at-teaserbox/
At the end I bought some of these, and the Wolverine are great, including the ones in the free samples. For me their IRs are some of the best on the market.

Unfortunately, at present https://www.cabir.eu/en  doesn't offer any free sample anymore.
They also have some excellent IRs; I love their "Orange" library and the mixes included with it.

And for sure also https://www.ownhammer.com has very good IRs, but the free samples they have are - imho - slightly worse than most of their paid files, and I got many of them.

I bought some 3SigmaAudio IRs, too, but I didn't like them because imho they were too mid-scooped and therefore not suitable at high volume level. I got the UK Custom and another one I don't remember now. Ymmv. What's more in each pack there are too few files that are someway too similar each other.
For the same reason (mid-scooped) I didn't like the free Line6 Allure pack.

You see: I went down the rabbit hole and spent even too much money on IR files!

Currently anyway I'm using mainly (or even only) my own IR file. If you like, you can download it here: http://ge.tt/1MT9wem2
It comes from a Celestion Classic Lead 80 with a Sennheiser e906 mic, but then I tweaked it a lot (with equalization, hi- and lo-pass filters, etc.) so that at the end it is probably rather far from the standard speaker and mic. I gave this IR to a friend of mine who was struggling to find a good live tone, and he was very happy with it, too. I use it with clean tones and low/medium/high-medium distortion (no metal) tones.

 

 

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My personal favorites are two of the 4x12 closed back Celestion Redback IRs. The ones in their collection which are noted as “hi-gain all” and “lo-gain all” use a mix of MD421, SM57 and R121 microphones. The high gain mix is a little darker, which helps to tame the fizz on a crunch or lead channel. The low gain mix sounds great with a clean amp model, as it is a little brighter. Whether or not you like these will be a very personal decision. It just so happens that Celestion’s sound engineer and I have similar taste in guitar tone. These also don’t require much high cut to suite my taste, so I use an EQ block near the end of the chain with high cut set at a modest 11-14.5 KHz depending on amp model.

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8 hours ago, Lelik said:

Currently anyway I'm using mainly (or even only) my own IR file. If you like, you can download it here: http://ge.tt/1MT9wem2

It comes from a Celestion Classic Lead 80 with a Sennheiser e906 mic, but then I tweaked it a lot (with equalization, hi- and lo-pass filters, etc.) so that at the end it is probably rather far from the standard speaker and mic. I gave this IR to a friend of mine who was struggling to find a good live tone, and he was very happy with it, too. I use it with clean tones and low/medium/high-medium distortion (no metal) tones.

Thanks for that, will check it out.

Do I understand right that it's not made from an actual CelestionPlus CL 80? I don't remember them using that mic, but I could be wrong. Do you know where hte original IR came from if not them?

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9 hours ago, zooey said:

Do I understand right that it's not made from an actual CelestionPlus CL 80? I don't remember them using that mic, but I could be wrong. Do you know where hte original IR came from if not them

It's an original IR that I made (with a real Classic Lead 80 + e906). It isn't a commercial IR with some mods. 
But then, as I wrote, I made a lot (or even more) of post equalization. I mainly went to the rehearsal room (several different sessions), playing at high volume with backing tracks and using some different Helix patches (with my favorite amps: Archon Clean, Litigator and DC-30 with and without OD effects), and tweaked my IR till I was happy with the result, unconcerned about keeping the starting tone.

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@Lelik

Your IR is awesome with my setup. I just spent 2 hours at high volume, tweaking my main rig with your IR, you rox, thank you for sharing.

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55 minutes ago, plexi71 said:

Your IR is awesome with my setup. I just spent 2 hours at high volume, tweaking my main rig with your IR, you rox, thank you for sharing.

You're welcome, and I'm happy that you enjoy playing with it. Bon musique!

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On 3/22/2018 at 4:38 PM, Lelik said:

You're welcome, and I'm happy that you enjoy playing with it. Bon musique!

 

Lelik mate...thank you so much for your IR.  I played a gig with it last night and it's the first time I was happy with the live sound from the Helix.  I've tried everything from different EQ's, cabs, amps etc which sound great at home but nothing was cutting when it came to sitting with a band at gig volumes.  I was getting really down about it and the Helix, this IR has helped massively.  Cheers man

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On 3/21/2018 at 11:28 AM, Lelik said:

Currently anyway I'm using mainly (or even only) my own IR file. If you like, you can download it here: http://ge.tt/1MT9wem2
 

 

 

thank you for sharing this IR

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Another huge thank you to Lelik. Just unboxed my Helix LT, and was trying to talk myself into some of the stock cabs. Loaded your IR and the thing bloomed right before my... ears(?). GREAT IR, man, and thank you so much for sharing it with the community!

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I've capture a lot of IR from some Italian boutique cabs. This one is a mix between a G12H and a V30. I've used 2 mics: SM57 center position and E609 mid position. The cabs are two Dragoon Custom Speaker 2x12.

 

I hope you enjoy it!

 

Federico

DRA-G12H 57cent+V30 609mid.wav

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Hi! Someone can help me to found a IR of the palmer junction model?... I founded for fractal...but not for helix. My tech doesn't want to change the sound of the palmer and I don't want carry the little box...

 

Thanks!!

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