Advice on Filling Sounds and Sounding Bigger

[talonmm]

I have been invited to join a band and for the first time in my brief band history, will be the only guitar player.

 

We have a vocalist, bass player, drummer and myself.

 

I was asked to try to fill in the sound gaps since we do not have keyboards or a second guitarist.

 

I want to add some sounds to my pod 500 tones to accomplish this.

 

The first thing that comes to mind is a chorus and octiver.

 

Any other effects that can help?

 

Can anyone provide some tips and guidance on this matter?

 

 

Thanks!

[cruisinon2]

 

I have been invited to join a band and for the first time in my brief band history, will be the only guitar player.

 

We have a vocalist, bass player, drummer and myself.

 

I was asked to try to fill in the sound gaps since we do not have keyboards or a second guitarist.

 

I want to add some sounds to my pod 500 tones to accomplish this.

 

The first thing that comes to mind is a chorus and octiver.

 

Any other effects that can help?

 

Can anyone provide some tips and guidance on this matter?

 

 

Thanks!

My advice...get the singer to learn to strum a few chords. ;)

 

It's always difficult to fill the space with just 1 guitar, and FX can only do so much before you start to sound like a spaceship. One of my favorite bands is King's X, and they're a 3-piece. Their recipe for getting a big live sound has always been putting a fair amount of distortion on the bass (he also sometimes plays with 8 or 12 string basses)...not the easiest thing to sell to your bass player necessarily, and by itself is probably not the most pleasant thing to listen to, but in a mix it can work...at least it has for them for 30+ years.

[BillBee]

Been flying solo for a few years now myself. The only time you will feel lonely is solo time if you are used to a rhythm guitar behind you. If the bass is on you can hear how the tonality will change depending on where you guys are at (root note vs scale choice).

 

The only thing I consistently do is pop some delay at 220 ms and gently mix it in. You want it in there but not "out" there.

 

It is a great way to find out about the rhythm section too. If ole pickle fingers is really in sync with ham fists. :P

 

A tambourine, a shaker - any rhythmic noise make you can get the singer to jangle helps.

[joel_brown]

Being in a Black Sabbath Tribute band I have to be the only guitarist.  I use two amps/speaker cabs and/or two signals panned hard left and right to the P.A. system.  I create a patch that has a Stereo Delay between the left and right channels in the PODHD and set a 20ms delay mixed Full on one of them.  Then I pan the PODHD hard left and right for the output.

 

Another trick I learned is to put a small amount of compression after the amp block in the PODHD.  Set it to where it slightly reduces the volume when playing rhythm but single notes sound slightly louder. 

 

Don't let the bass player try to increase their volume during your solos - that just makes it worse.

 

The link below is to a live recording where we had everything mic'd up.  The guitar is not double track recorded.

Example: http://www.ChildrenOfTheGraveBand.com/WarPigs.wma

[Rewolf48]

Occasional use of the long reverbs (Octo, Particle) can be very effective at giving the impression of a keyboard pad especially with trails on, but it is not something you can use all the time

[talonmm]

thanks everyone, I appreciate the great suggestions!  I'm going to try them and also suggest to the singer and bass player the ideas above.  Using a dt25 amp limits my ability to drive a second amp delayed far from the main amp, but that seemed like a great idea. Thanks!

[Matt_Brown]

Delay is good. Experiment with using dual amps too. Either the same amp model with slightly different settings or even the same settings but different cab micing, as well as different amps, can really thicken your sound.

[duncann]

Haven't seen mentioned the pitch block trick. Put a pitch glide in either path A or B, set the mix to 100%, the pitch to + or - 0.1, and pan each patch in the mixer block to 100%. This will add a subtle chorusing effect.

 

Also, if you don't want to waste using a two path option for this, you can put a stereo delay after the mixer, left time 20ms, right time > 20ms, left and right fback 0, mix 100%.

 

These tricks work fairly well for non-live type situations. I don't know how well they work for live use, particularly if the system you're going through is mono. But if it's stereo, it would produce a similar effect to the clip joel_brown above posted.

[kinglerch]

another option is to use a harmonizer fx. you can either dial in the key if you know what they key of the song will be and harmonize with yourself in fifths for example, or forget the key and dial in a full octave above or below and you will sound like two of you. i am fairly light on this mix for harmonizers though, as they can sound a bit too overwhelming, so I usually set the mix at 25% to 30% max.

[brue58ski]

One little trick I use that I essentially stole from Alex Lifeson is to treat the strings like two different orchestra sections. The first six strings are the violins and the bottom six the cellos. Each with their own "part". Spirit of Radio and Tom Sawyer by Rush are two songs that have examples of that kind of thinking in them. I don't know if that's actually how he looks at it but it made sense to me. I even often wondered if Alex didn't actually record the top three strings and the bottom three strings on separate tracks, EQing them differently so they both sparkle & shine and create their own space better. One conspiracy theory I came up with when I got frustrated trying to dial in his sound. Never heard anything to confirm that and it's very likely wrong. But it made me feel better about my failure at getting his tone.

[Rewolf48]

One little trick I use that I essentially stole from Alex Lifeson is to treat the strings like two different orchestra sections. The first six strings are the violins and the bottom six the cellos. Each with their own "part". Spirit of Radio and Tom Sawyer by Rush are two songs that have examples of that kind of thinking in them. I don't know if that's actually how he looks at it but it made sense to me. I even often wondered if Alex didn't actually record the top three strings and the bottom three strings on separate tracks, EQing them differently so they both sparkle & shine and create their own space better. One conspiracy theory I came up with when I got frustrated trying to dial in his sound. Never heard anything to confirm that and it's very likely wrong. But it made me feel better about my failure at getting his tone.

 

I like the idea of this, but I struggle with the math...

 

A lot of Alex Lifeson stuff just doesn't make sense given that "Rush always can plays all of the parts live" ... except that this is sometimes loosely interpreted with Samples: http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/transcripts/19970700eq.htm

[cclement]

To continue on the Rush vibe... and add a dash of the Police. Try using more open chord voicings; they can help open up the sound as well. You might dig into these:

 

http://www.guitarplayer.com/artist-lessons/1026/play-like-andy-summers-during-the-police-years/12450

 

http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/transcripts/20110100guitarplayer.htm

[brue58ski]

I like the idea of this, but I struggle with the math...

 

A lot of Alex Lifeson stuff just doesn't make sense given that "Rush always can plays all of the parts live" ... except that this is sometimes loosely interpreted with Samples: http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/transcripts/19970700eq.htm

 

Yeah, I knew they used samples. I actually have that issue of EQ magazine. But the guitar parts from Spirit of Radio and Tom Sawyer are still played in the way I described. I do use this kind of thing a lot. It's just a different way of looking at what you are playing. Not really trying to dissect the "Rush Method" of guitar playing. And as much as I want to think I came up with it on my own, which in some ways I did, I know it was influenced a lot by Alex's rhythm playing.

[Palico]

I'm the only guitarist my group as well. I prefer it this way. As already mentioned the delay and verb can add to a bigger sound. If you are running a amp or FRFR speaker then make sure you have line out going to the PA. As the only guitarist you need to spread the sound out. 

 

A lot depends on the style of music you will be playing. For my purposes I take the opposite approach. I don't attempt to fill it out at all. What I attempt to do is really focus on the highlights and fill overs and let the bass and drums carry the rhythm. When the vocals are going I'll pull back and play a bit of the chords to support the vocals, but they usually are not big chords. Often using smaller voicing of them so that when I leave to play a fill or lead it doesn't feel the bottom dropped out. When you go for solos this is where you bassist and drummer will need to take up some slack for not having another guitar. You don't want them to get louder, as already stated that doesn't help, what they need to do is get a bit busier on the groove. If you playing original songs then you can do some work with the arrangements to make it fit as well. Or sometimes does the song even need a solo? Even with covers unless the solo is iconic and a key part of the song you might be to skip it. Then you can just play mostly rhythm for the song.

 

I would ask your band to explain exactly what "filling sound gaps" means to them. To some that might mean they want big guitar chords to fill out he center of the sound and not really but looking for you play lead or very little. If that's the case then setup the POD with some of the suggestions above. Going direct to the PA with one amp model hard left and a different one hard right (assuming the PA is setup Stereo) can be very effective. The other possible means is they want some to fill in the gaps between vocal lines or slower spots in the material. If that's the case then your focus is heavily on fills and leads, don't bother playing much rhythm at all. That scenario can become as much about what you don't play as much what you do play. The reasoning is because when your not playing much, when you do come in, it can make big impact, or make those tasty little fills really standout and take the song somewhere. 

[bjnette]

Bass isnt a guitar? I won't take offense as I know your talking about 2nd fiddle etc regarding 6 strings.

 

 

I would have your gear off the ground at rehearsal so as to not muddy the bottom end and roll off the low end on your guitar.

In other words get separation of tone at the rehearsal "space" level. If your amps are on the ground it will be boomier and washed with bass. 

 

If the bass is the main melody  and you are there for color, I'd cut some broad 1k hz.

 

Next I'd look at your playing; give lots of space by play chords sparsely with varying voicings and clever fills here and there in a relaxed soothing or exciting way depending the tune.

 

Once you find out what parts you are contributing then you can embellish  your tones and patches to enhance or assist the song. If it contributes it will be welcome some might not be so fitting.

 

Your style of playing, where on the neck and when you are playing it is foremost to filling out the sound and making the whole band sound big means each player has there own sonic spaces.

 

Once you have parts then patches to enhance but heavy distortion is the opposite of dynamic the tone is clipped and you have added harmonics which thin out your sound but can be used from time to time to give a sense of power but all the time looses it's impact.

 

Till then keep the tone simple and add some ideas given above to enhance like using the looper with a swell that'l fit over a section while you add fills with another patch.

 

I think the band will want a contribution rather than a reinvention and by the sounds of it want sustained chords with verbs and chorus but really your playing style can be all the color that is needed.

[BillBee]

I wonder that if in the end it is just a matter of the band getting used to a single guitar and having a bit more breathing room in the music. More chords (arp'ed fpr variety) and less fills.

[Meiannatee]

It would help if you let us know your band's genre of music. Sorry if you've mentioned it already.

[talonmm]

these answers are amazing and I believe "gear-head" is spot on, I need to communicate better and clearer with the band and see what they want.  As the new guy I want to fit in, and not ram my beliefs down their throat.

 

We Play mostly classic rock and blues/rock.

[Meiannatee]

In that case, I totally agree with Billbee. Don't expect to sound as dense as album versions, where there are more layers than a 1 foot lasagna. When the music "breathes in", let the bass and drums do their thing, and the vocals carry. Here you can do things like ambient swells.

 

When it's time for the music to "belch out", the mids are all yours. On your crunch tone, let the kick, bass and cymbals have their space by removing excess low and high frequencies. High-pass 80-120hz, low-pass 6k-8.5k hz. The mid-focus EQ is great, you can use Meambobbo's freq chart.

 

Low freq's are energy-intensive, so cutting there frees up headroom for your DT. Cutting some of the highs reduces fizz and allows you to be loud enough without taking someone's head off.

 

Effects wise, octaves and harmonizers are fun for highlights but get boring if overused. If your venue is not too echo-ey, don't be afraid to use more prominent delays and reverbs. Using delays rhythmically instead of just to fatten stuff up turns you into 1.5 guitarists (e.g. the Edge). Find a good balance between mix and feedback.

 

Finally, playing wise, the guys covered it already. More chords and arpeggios, with fills interspersed.

 

Let us know how it works out!