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DunedinDragon

Bought a G10!!! Returned it after 3 hours of playing with it.

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I had great hopes for this as so much has been made about it being as good, if not better, than using a cable.  Well, I'm here to say that's not anywhere close to the truth, at least as far as using it with the Helix and an FRFR speaker.

 

I suspect if one were using a standard amp and guitar cabinet, or even if they were playing higher gain tones, they might not notice the lack of top end resonse.  I know I didn't when I tried it on presets that were a bit more overdriven.  But as soon as I hit a clean sound, every bit of the sparkle vanished from the sound.  It was actually quite easy to A/B the comparison since I used a longer cable to attach the base unit to the Helix.  So I'd simply unplug the cable and use it to compare the response, and it was undeniable.

 

I've used G50 wireless before and gave up on it for two reasons....replacing batteries, and loss of frequency response.  Apparently this is still the case.

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Hmmm... Can't say I notice this with mine. I use mine with my Helix plugged into my studio monitors quite often. I love this little thing. Best guitar accessory I've bought in years.

 

The G10 always has the cable tone feature l turned on, and it's set to mimic a 10' cable, I believe. So if you're using a low capacitance cable, I guess that could account for some difference.

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Yeah, I've tried various different wireless units over the years...they all rob you of tone one way or the other. Just adds another layer of tweaking, to undo whatever it does to your sound. I've been gigging for 20+ years, but I'm not running across a 200' stage, playing to stadium crowds...that being the case, what do I really need with wireless anyway? That and I f#/$ing HATE batteries...;)

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Hmmm... Can't say I notice this with mine. I use mine with my Helix plugged into my studio monitors quite often. I love this little thing. Best guitar accessory I've bought in years.

 

The G10 always has the cable tone feature l turned on, and it's set to mimic a 10' cable, I believe. So if you're using a low capacitance cable, I guess that could account for some difference.

 

Again, I think a lot has to do with the tone and somewhat with the speakers.  My studio monitors don't reproduce the top end nearly as much as my stage speakers, but it really became obvious when I went to some Eric Clapton style clean blues and also with some funk stuff...both relatively dependent on highs.

 

I was just using a standard, off the shelf 10' cable by the way.

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Again, I think a lot has to do with the tone and somewhat with the speakers.  My studio monitors don't reproduce the top end nearly as much as my stage speakers, but it really became obvious when I went to some Eric Clapton style clean blues and also with some funk stuff...both relatively dependent on highs.

 

I was just using a standard, off the shelf 10' cable by the way.

 

Well, no trying to be argumentative, but I just have a hard time understanding how you could hear that much difference... Like I said I've used mine with my Helix, but I've also used directly into a pedalboard into a Princeton Reverb - no lack of chime noticed there. The G10 is sending 24-bit, uncompressed digital audio, so it's not really like an analog wireless system where you get the squelching effects. If anything, some people dislike digital wireless systems because they have too much high end (hence, the cable tone).

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I noticed it mostly on the pick attack, but generally the crispness and articulation was gone.  It was similar to what I had experienced with the G50 that caused me to go back to using a cable.  That's the reason I spent so much time A/B'ing the patches, because I wanted to make sure it wasn't my imagination.

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Sounds like an impedance issue at the input of the G10. For some guitars the input impedance will be a good match. For others, not so much. I've experienced this in other devices.

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The G10's Cable Tone 10' contour affects only the 1/4" output. The G10's XLR out has no Cable Tone applied. Both outs may be used simultaneously. Use an XLR to TS 1/4" cable to circumvent the Cable Tone contour. I've been using the G10 since late July without any audible signal degradation. It is a terrifically compact and convenient unit. I've even used two base units locked to the same channel with a single transmitter for split signal routing.

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I just don't see this argument to be the case. There is a slight difference, but I mean... I'm listening with studio headphones plugged into the Helix and obsessively A/Bed the G10 vs a Mogami Platinum 12 foot cable. This is a $100 cable, two of them would cost more than the G10. On top of that, compared to most cheaper cables, it is generally brighter in tone. Now, I know my hearing trails off at about 18 kHz (because I checked), but after extensive testing, I noticed at best a negligible difference. On my active Stingray bass, it seemed like it was slightly brighter, actually. And on my passive US-made Custom 24, it was maybe a smidge darker overall. I can imagine that if I were using the built-in cabs without major high cuts instead of the IRs I primarily use, I might notice more of a difference, but at that point... is the difference really relevant? I mean, the point is to have a tone that sounds like a real amp, yes? In which case, I would never run it any differently.

 

I guess my point is... I studied recording in college, I obsess over things like the tone of picks, strings, pickup height, and cables, and I am not short on nice gear in the least. Even factoring all that in, I still feel that the difference in tone between the G10 and a real cable, at least when used with the Helix, is irrelevant at best. The two places where I might reconsider is if the amp is running at a different input impedance than normal (which is to say, different than the G10) OR if you are trying to use specific fuzz pedals. In both of these cases, the different input impedance will change your tone if connected via cable, so there is a real benefit to using a cable. If, however, you normally leave the Helix's input impedance on auto or the max setting, you are already using (generally) the same load the G10 does, so there is, again, a negligible difference.

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I have no problem if others are happy with the G10.  In my case the area that had the most difference were very clean and brighter presets with not much in the way of drive, compression, or effects.  I'm no novice to sound production both live and in professional studios in Nashville, Memphis, and Austin for over 4 decades, so I know enough to know how to not be deceived and tp verify my perceptions.  For me it was significant enough to stick with the cable.  For others that might not be the case and if they're happy with their units more power to them.  I only pointed out my experience, and that it didn't fit my needs.

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I have no problem if others are happy with the G10.  In my case the area that had the most difference were very clean and brighter presets with not much in the way of drive, compression, or effects.  I'm no novice to sound production both live and in professional studios in Nashville, Memphis, and Austin for over 4 decades, so I know enough to know how to not be deceived and tp verify my perceptions.  For me it was significant enough to stick with the cable.  For others that might not be the case and if they're happy with their units more power to them.  I only pointed out my experience, and that it didn't fit my needs.

 

I had the G70 but recently sold it and went back to a Lava cable....everyone's ears a different but the cable sounds better to mine.  My buddy has the Shure wireless for guitar and it sounds pretty darn good...may go that direction one day if I get a wild hair :)

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I just don't see this argument to be the case. There is a slight difference, but I mean... I'm listening with studio headphones plugged into the Helix and obsessively A/Bed the G10 vs a Mogami Platinum 12 foot cable. This is a $100 cable, two of them would cost more than the G10. On top of that, compared to most cheaper cables, it is generally brighter in tone. Now, I know my hearing trails off at about 18 kHz (because I checked), but after extensive testing, I noticed at best a negligible difference. On my active Stingray bass, it seemed like it was slightly brighter, actually. And on my passive US-made Custom 24, it was maybe a smidge darker overall. I can imagine that if I were using the built-in cabs without major high cuts instead of the IRs I primarily use, I might notice more of a difference, but at that point... is the difference really relevant? I mean, the point is to have a tone that sounds like a real amp, yes? In which case, I would never run it any differently.

 

I guess my point is... I studied recording in college, I obsess over things like the tone of picks, strings, pickup height, and cables, and I am not short on nice gear in the least. Even factoring all that in, I still feel that the difference in tone between the G10 and a real cable, at least when used with the Helix, is irrelevant at best. The two places where I might reconsider is if the amp is running at a different input impedance than normal (which is to say, different than the G10) OR if you are trying to use specific fuzz pedals. In both of these cases, the different input impedance will change your tone if connected via cable, so there is a real benefit to using a cable. If, however, you normally leave the Helix's input impedance on auto or the max setting, you are already using (generally) the same load the G10 does, so there is, again, a negligible difference.

I had s lot of training in my youth as well and I agree with you. I agree with the OP that everyone has a different ear. But I also think an awful lot if it is perception and often what we think we hear just is not the case. In a live situation no one is going to notice a difference in cable or wireless unless it is done cheap noisy cable or unit. Studio can be a different story. If one truly has a great ear and great equipment they can hear the difference. And for recording you want it perfect. The average person still can't truly hear the difference. If someone tells them it should be so they will perceive that they hear it when the really do not. We proved this in some of my classes years ago. There were 10 people in a class I was in and only one person in the class got it right each time. I picked out one or two but others I did not. I was actually pissed because I thought I could hear anything. I am not saying the OP doesn't notice. He ma very well be one that can hear it or this might be one area he hears. Most of us won't hear it though.

 

I have a G50. I am fine with the tone with my Helix but we are having other issues. On three occasions it dropped in our our set and quick frequency changes did not bring it back. Luckily we had cables with in reach to do a quick fix. I really do not know what is up. It may end up a support ticket but I can't do a ticket if I can't figure it out. I can't duplicate when I try. I don't know if something is interfering like the wifi in the building or what it is. We also have a security team in radios so maybe when they key up it's knocking us off. If it is a faulty unit I would think I could duplicate it in practice. It's frustrating me because our in ears are wired so I am already tethered which I hate.

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I've had no problems or sonic disappointments with my G10.  Very happy with the sound and no noticeable latency.

 

 And even if slightly different on top end its something that can be fixed up simply by adjusting the tone controls or EQ in a HELIX patch or elsewhere. 

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G50 here. No real difference with SD humbuckers and Fender American Standard custom 50s.

 

But I can not say for any other types. Maybe some very "vintage" type lower output pups might be affected?

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For those using the G10, there was a firmware 1.04 released last week that resolved an issue of some G10 Transmitters not going into sleep mode after reaching a full charge (solid Green LED status) when then left in the base with power to the base turned off. The details are in the Line 6 Relay sub Forum.

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Played with a friend last night who just bought a g10.  One of the most detailed people (very particular about gear) and he had no issues at all with the tone.  range was excellent.

 

We did have one issue though-the g10 hooked up to my g30 receiver on channel 1, took us a while to figure that one out.  I switched to channel 7 and everything was fine.

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use what you like is the rule

 

The Helix is way beyond any sort of couple hundred dollar multi unit, period. I it is not POD, else I would not have one. There is a reason why the flagship multi units run around $500 and the Helix is $1500, you get what you pay for despite what one does or does not hear which is a whole other issue. I tried a $600 Atomic Amp before the Helix, it went back. My GSP1101 modeler preamp had some really great amp models and effects in it and I love that unit but even at $800 and the clean tube models it has which are amazing the Helix, beat its a s s with a big hammer. So moral of this story is use what you like, use what works for you, Settle for whatever you will and love the sound of whatever you hear. The Helix flag continues to fly on my house. 

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I had s lot of training in my youth as well and I agree with you. I agree with the OP that everyone has a different ear. But I also think an awful lot if it is perception and often what we think we hear just is not the case. In a live situation no one is going to notice a difference in cable or wireless unless it is done cheap noisy cable or unit. Studio can be a different story. If one truly has a great ear and great equipment they can hear the difference. And for recording you want it perfect. The average person still can't truly hear the difference. If someone tells them it should be so they will perceive that they hear it when the really do not. We proved this in some of my classes years ago. There were 10 people in a class I was in and only one person in the class got it right each time. I picked out one or two but others I did not. I was actually pissed because I thought I could hear anything. I am not saying the OP doesn't notice. He ma very well be one that can hear it or this might be one area he hears. Most of us won't hear it though.

 

I have a G50. I am fine with the tone with my Helix but we are having other issues. On three occasions it dropped in our our set and quick frequency changes did not bring it back. Luckily we had cables with in reach to do a quick fix. I really do not know what is up. It may end up a support ticket but I can't do a ticket if I can't figure it out. I can't duplicate when I try. I don't know if something is interfering like the wifi in the building or what it is. We also have a security team in radios so maybe when they key up it's knocking us off. If it is a faulty unit I would think I could duplicate it in practice. It's frustrating me because our in ears are wired so I am already tethered which I hate.

 

This is also important to note. At home, for practice (and also for recording), I don't use the G10. While, as I mentioned, I can't hear any appreciable difference, it's just a waste of the battery to be using it at home. And, frankly, I think it would be a mistake to use wireless while recording, even though it has the added benefit of completely removing your guitar from the house ground, meaning you cannot possibly get ground issues like you otherwise might. Wireless is intended for LIVE use, and I can 100% guarantee that if I can't tell any appreciable difference listening in expensive headphones at home with trained ears, than some rando drunk dude who doesn't even play guitar sure as hell isn't going to notice at the gig. So the important thing here is to not obsess over little tiny things that are not going to affect you in any meaningful way when applied appropriately.

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+1 for the shure suggestion.

 

I recently decided to go back to a wireless system.

 

I tried out several systems including most of the line 6 systems.

 

Ended up going with the Shure GLXD16.

 

The quality is fantastic! Not only in sound but in construction as well. All the other systems just felt cheap in comparison. It is an extremely solid unit. It also uses a rechargeable battery with tons of life in it. I haven't gotten any drop outs, it auto scans for the best frequencies and picks the best three to work with. You can also manually choose if you know how to analyze your local wifi environments with an app like innsider.

 

 

I would read reviews as well.

 

What I found from reading about all of them was this:

 

Most people gave the line 6 systems great reviews except for a few people.

 

All the people gave shure great reviews and several talked of how they replaced their Line 6 system with it... So ... Cut out the middle step and try it out.

 

 

Not to dog line 6 but it is what it is:

How many quality issues have you had and read about with Line 6 gear?

 

How many have you had or read about with shure?

 

I am a Helix owner and have had a ton of line 6 gear and love the way they perform. But I can also say I have had more problems with their gear than I have ever had with any other manufacturer since I started playing 22 years ago.

 

I love their stuff but am scared to death every day that my Helix will completely go dead on me after the experiences. But in comparison to the competition and quality of sound they are half the price of the axe and kpa units and that was the end of that decision, and I truly do love the Helix... It just worries me.

 

However when you're looking at these wireless systems, especially the better line 6 units, the price difference is not so dramatic. Check out the shure glxd16 if you have a chance and you truly want to go wireless, it is built like a tank.

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+1 for the shure suggestion.

 

I recently decided to go back to a wireless system.

 

I tried out several systems including most of the line 6 systems.

 

Ended up going with the Shure GLXD16.

 

The quality is fantastic! Not only in sound but in construction as well. All the other systems just felt cheap in comparison. It is an extremely solid unit. It also uses a rechargeable battery with tons of life in it. I haven't gotten any drop outs, it auto scans for the best frequencies and picks the best three to work with. You can also manually choose if you know how to analyze your local wifi environments with an app like innsider.

 

 

I would read reviews as well.

 

What I found from reading about all of them was this:

 

Most people gave the line 6 systems great reviews except for a few people.

 

All the people gave shure great reviews and several talked of how they replaced their Line 6 system with it... So ... Cut out the middle step and try it out.

 

 

Not to dog line 6 but it is what it is:

How many quality issues have you had and read about with Line 6 gear?

 

How many have you had or read about with shure?

 

I am a Helix owner and have had a ton of line 6 gear and love the way they perform. But I can also say I have had more problems with their gear than I have ever had with any other manufacturer since I started playing 22 years ago.

 

I love their stuff but am scared to death every day that my Helix will completely go dead on me after the experiences. But in comparison to the competition and quality of sound they are half the price of the axe and kpa units and that was the end of that decision, and I truly do love the Helix... It just worries me.

 

However when you're looking at these wireless systems, especially the better line 6 units, the price difference is not so dramatic. Check out the shure glxd16 if you have a chance and you truly want to go wireless, it is built like a tank.

 

The Shure unit sucks. The build quality is great and the sound is fine, but it has the worst drop outs I have ever experienced. Aside from going out of range, I have yet to experience any dropouts with the G10, even under identical conditions to where I had dropouts with the Shure. We practice in the basement of a house and I would go into the next room, about 20 feet down the hall, and get dropouts on the Shure. Even with line of sight. Not so with the G10, can even go deep into that next room and have no problems. So if you want to talk about "no one complains about the Shure," take it from someone who has owned one. Line 6 is the wireless to get if you want reliable performance.

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Hmmm... Seems troubling. Been gigging with the glxd16 a few times now and never had an issue. I use it all day at home too, can't stand dealing with cables while working and with a 16 hour rechargeable battery expense is not an issue, and haven't had any dropouts or latency.

 

Did a quick google search for "shure glxd16 dropouts" to try and see if this was an issue and didn't really come up with anything.

 

A proper setup goes a long way as well. Using something like inssider to analyse the local environment and having the ability to set the unit to a frequency with little interference goes a long way as well.

 

The g10 does look like a nice introductory unit to see if wireless is something you like first before jumping in the deep end... Heck the glxd16 would be an introductory unit at that compared to the real nice ones. The dongle getting damaged on the g10 with the way it sticks out made me a little nervous though, I could see myself snapping the trs right off of that thing with a wrong move at a gig.

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Hmmm... Seems troubling. Been gigging with the glxd16 a few times now and never had an issue. I use it all day at home too, can't stand dealing with cables while working and with a 16 hour rechargeable battery expense is not an issue, and haven't had any dropouts or latency.

 

Did a quick google search for "shure glxd16 dropouts" to try and see if this was an issue and didn't really come up with anything.

 

A proper setup goes a long way as well. Using something like inssider to analyse the local environment and having the ability to set the unit to a frequency with little interference goes a long way as well.

 

The g10 does look like a nice introductory unit to see if wireless is something you like first before jumping in the deep end... Heck the glxd16 would be an introductory unit at that compared to the real nice ones. The dongle getting damaged on the g10 with the way it sticks out made me a little nervous though, I could see myself snapping the trs right off of that thing with a wrong move at a gig.

 

I tried it many times, couldn't even get any help from Shure, so I gave up. Customer service here is way better.

 

I agree that the dongle is a bit of a concern, but it's actually built pretty sturdy. Obviously if you drop the guitar on the dongle it's going to break (as will your jack, probably), but, since this thing only has a 50-foot max range (1/6th that of the Shure, I might add, despite working more reliably), it's really just meant for people like me who don't actually run around much but just don't want cables in the way. If your needs are different - you are playing stadiums and go all the way out front or there are a bunch of potential sources of interference or you need the signal to reach all the way backstage - then the G10 is probably not for you. But I have found it to, so far, be of very high quality (with the possible exception of the mounting of the USB power jack, as mentioned in the Relay wireless threads). Like it much better than the G50 or the Shure for my needs.

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