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POD HD500X into Blackstar HT5R


Atomant669
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Hello everyone, 

 

I have been running the POD500X through Stagesource speakers for the past 2 years and have just switched to the Blackstar that have been sitting there. 

 

I'm building my patches from scratch on the Blackstar, but it seems like when I'm running the 500X on the clean channel of the Blackstar with no effects or amp sims on, it is very very soft and almost can't hear a thing coming out of the amp as when I plug my guitar straight to the amp or even through my BOSS ME-80(with no effects and preamps on), it is almost like it is true-bypass with no effect on the tone at all. 

 

Are there any minor settings on the 500X that I might have overlooked? 

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Possibly chaining your output mode on the Pod might work as via Here

 

The Pod has a Line/amp switch to help with boosting or lowering the volume/ Maxing out the master volume..

 

Also if that amp has an effects loop, you might be better off going straight into the return, then you can use the POD as a preamp with effects as such so you're not worrying about the EQ on the amp itself.

 

last but not least is cutting off one of the channels on the mixer and making the mono channel moved into the center on the POD so you're not getting any volume drop via that!

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Thanks guys for posting your replies. What's the simplest method I can go about doing this? 

 

I am just trying to hook up the 500X without any effects and amp sims on so I can get a normal clean tone from my amp. I am building my patches from scratch. 

 

If I can hook up the BOSS ME-80 without effects and pre-amps on. Why can't I do it with the 500X? 

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THank you all for your replies, I have tried using the 4 cable method as well as just plugging in to the front of my amp. 

 

Whether if I'm using the 4 cable method or plugging into the front of my amp or running the 500X with just a stagesource speaker, I think I know what is my complaint now. I can't managed to get a clean tone to match the same volume of my metal tones and the rest of the amp model's volumes are all jumbled up. 

 

Particularly Gibtone, Solo 100, Tweet B man and all other clean amps are inaudible. Amps with Metal tones like Treadplate and Angel F-Ball's volume are just jumbled up. Some is loud and some is soft. 

 

How is it possible for me to create patches in a group that would at least match in volume? 

 

Not to mention that the tone coming out of 500X is just flat as compared to Overdriven tone on the HT5R without any effects. 

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How is it possible for me to create patches in a group that would at least match in volume?

It's not...at least not automatically. It would be nice if volume normalization were built-in, but it isn't. Some amp models are inherently louder than others...it's been griped about for years, but it is what it is. You have to level everything out yourself by ear. Fortunately, there's no shortage of ways to do it. You've got the mixer block volume, channel volume, and certain FX (like most of the distortion boxes) have adjustable output. You can also use one of the more transparent EQ blocks as a boost, if need be. So you've got plenty of places to boost and cut. It's a balancing act, and an insufferable pain in the a$$, but there's no quick fix.

 

Balancing clean and dirty tones has always been a chore, on any rig I've ever used. Good rule of thumb is to get your clean tones as loud as you can without clipping, and adjust the crunch tones accordingly, otherwise you'll always be drowning out the clean sounds. I've used that approach with every pre-amp/multi fx unit/modeler I've ever had. It's really the only way to make it work.

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It's not...at least not automatically. It would be nice if volume normalization were built-in, but it isn't. Some amp models are inherently louder than others...it's been griped about for years, but it is what it is. You have to level everything out yourself by ear. Fortunately, there's no shortage of ways to do it. You've got the mixer block volume, channel volume, and certain FX (like most of the distortion boxes) have adjustable output. You can also use one of the more transparent EQ blocks as a boost, if need be. So you've got plenty of places to boost and cut. It's a balancing act, and an insufferable pain in the a$$, but there's no quick fix.

 

Balancing clean and dirty tones has always been a chore, on any rig I've ever used. Good rule of thumb is to get your clean tones as loud as you can without clipping, and adjust the crunch tones accordingly, otherwise you'll always be drowning out the clean sounds. I've used that approach with every pre-amp/multi fx unit/modeler I've ever had. It's really the only way to make it work.

 

Is this problem exclusive only to the 500X or across all amp sims? 

 

Does the BOSS GT-100 also have the same problem? 

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Is this problem exclusive only to the 500X or across all amp sims?

 

Does the BOSS GT-100 also have the same problem?

Well "problem" is not really a fair characterization. It's just how this stuff works...to be more precise, it's how our brains work. I've never used the BOSS unit, but I've had pre-amp/multi fx units and modelers from Digitech, Rocktron, ADA, Zoom, other L6 stuff, and probably a couple of others that I've forgotten about at this point, and none of them were any diffrent. Our perception of loudness at any given amplitude varies with frequency...if you have two tones which are EQed differently, at any given volume one is guaranteed to SEEM louder than the other, even if both register the same on a dB meter (which is why those things are useless for leveling diffrent tones, but that's another discussion altogether). Biology is to blame. It's just how our brains perceive sound. Nothing you can do about it.

 

Nip here, tuck there, and hit "save"...just make sure you do all your leveling at (or as close as possible) to the volume at which you intend to use the patches. Turn up or down significantly from that point, and you're back to square one.

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Thank you Sir for the detailed reply.

 

The reason I'm comparing the BOSS GT-100 is because as stated earlier. I have an ME-80 and it doesn't give me any of the problem that I am having with the 500X right now. So I'm thinking of switching over to the GT-100. Thus the question. 

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Hi Atomant - it is reassuring to find someone else experiencing similar issues.  I just bought a PODHD500X, and I was initially quite pleased with what I perceived as a vast increase in the clean headroom on my Bassbreaker 007.  On comparing results on other amps, including my Blackstar HT5R, I now realise that there is a significant signal loss through the POD.  Like you, I got significantly more volume, gain, and frequency response, with the guitar straight into any of the amps.  With no effects or amps on the POD chain, I have to increase the Mixer volumes by 6-8db to achieve the same volume and gain and, even then, there is noticeable tone suck.  You can obviously get acceptable volume, gain, and tone, by inserting boost, EQ, and amps into the POD signal chain, but I think the natural characteristics of different guitars will inevitably get lost.

I also have a GT100 and ME-80 and I agree that they appear much more transparent.  In fact they have a tendency to boost rather than loss, even when you don't intend it. You will know that the clean channel on the Blackstar HT5 is very clean, and the Dirt channel is very dirty (unless you are a metal head!). The GT100 will normally make the Dirt channel unusable for anyone that just wants a modicum of dirt.  I found that the solution was to reduce the GT100 guitar input level by 10db in Global settings, and then adjust the volume on the Clean channel and Gain/Volume on the Dirt channel to taste.  Messing around with these 3 parameters can achieve pretty much anything when using the GT100 on the HT5.  Unfortunately it doesn't work so well on the Bassbreaker as there is only 1 channel - to get clean headroom you have to turn the levels on the GT100 and the Gain on the amp right down, which results in very little volume even with the volume on the amp right up.

As various contributors to your thread have commented, nothing is perfect and it's all a matter of getting the best compromises possible for the result you want with the gear you have.

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I've used a GT-3, GT-6 (whatever the desktop version was), RP 1000, RP 500, Zoom G5, G3...etc.... and going in the front of an amp and screaming tone suck is 9/10 BS. Everything is running through a modeler, the only tone is that which the user has dialed up in the unit. They all can sound great once the time is put in. The kick in the nuts is patch creation technique does not always apply across the board, what works for one mfg usually does not translate to another.

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Atomant - If you persevere with the POD HD500X I have found (with the help of others on the Forum, and particularly Hurghanico)  that you can get your sound back to pretty much what your straight in guitar sounds like.

In Setup Inputs set the Guitar Z to 3.5M

In Setup Outputs adjust the Highs (and possibly Lows) much nearer to Flat as opposed to the Default -50 attenuation.

In each preset adjust the both the Mixer Pans to 0 (i.e. middle as opposed to Left or Right)

In each preset adjust both the Mixer Volumes to somewhere between +3.5 and +5 depending on you guitar output.

It can also help to put a Noise Gate in as the first item in the POD signal chain, to avoid the risk of getting a low impedance item appearing as the first link.

 

With the Blackstar you also have the option of using the Effects Loop.  This gets complicated, and there are contributions on this Forum.  I have tried putting my GT100 straight in the the Effects Return of the amp with good results, if you can live with just using the amp as a power amp and having all the controls on the POD.  You can also use the 4 cable method to have some of the POD effects going straight in to the front end of the amp, and have others inserted into the effects loop.  This can be done with the POD or GT100.

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Atomant - If you persevere with the POD HD500X I have found (with the help of others on the Forum, and particularly Hurghanico)  that you can get your sound back to pretty much what your straight in guitar sounds like.

In Setup Inputs set the Guitar Z to 3.5M

In Setup Outputs adjust the Highs (and possibly Lows) much nearer to Flat as opposed to the Default -50 attenuation.

In each preset adjust the both the Mixer Pans to 0 (i.e. middle as opposed to Left or Right)

In each preset adjust both the Mixer Volumes to somewhere between +3.5 and +5 depending on you guitar output.

It can also help to put a Noise Gate in as the first item in the POD signal chain, to avoid the risk of getting a low impedance item appearing as the first link.

 

With the Blackstar you also have the option of using the Effects Loop.  This gets complicated, and there are contributions on this Forum.  I have tried putting my GT100 straight in the the Effects Return of the amp with good results, if you can live with just using the amp as a power amp and having all the controls on the POD.  You can also use the 4 cable method to have some of the POD effects going straight in to the front end of the amp, and have others inserted into the effects loop.  This can be done with the POD or GT100.

 

Thanks gbr 

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