HELIX and AX8 (not Helix vs AX8)

[miguel_lopez]

so I finally got my pair of dream bitches:

 

YES! today I went to pick up my Fractal AX8, I'm so excited to have the best of both worlds(perhaps I'm missing Kemper, but not right away; it's too expensive)

 

Having both, As many of you, I'm asking for suggestions of "pairing them" if it's the case you have tried it

 

I'm not posting this thread to compare units, that's been so discussed in other forums

 

both units are the best of the best

 

I was thinking about using AX8 as an external divice, then matching it thru SPDIF into HELIX as an external "stomp" then edit with endless possibilities in the Helix room

 

Any other suggestions???

 

thanx

[cruisinon2]

The world's first $3K+ redundancy....

[hideout]

Wow. That's a lot of tap dancing.

[johnonguitar]

I have to respect the fact you spent an absolute tonne of money on something you don't really need.

 

Much respect!

 

Just sell both of them and get an Ax2 + MFC and be done with it!

[silverhead]

This guy is a troll or has mental health issues. Either way why is he continually allowed to sh1t post about Helix? Yesterday he was selling it!

 

 

I have to respect the fact you spent an absolute tonne of money on something you don't really need.

 

Much respect!

 

Just sell both of them and get an Ax2 + MFC and be done with it!

 

So, let me get this straight. It's not OK for someone else to express a negative opinion about Helix in this forum, but it is OK for you to recommend that people sell their Helix and buy a competitor's product. How does that work? I think your Fractal tattoo is showing again.

 

Don't bother replying with another of your personal attacks.

 

EDIT: Just to be clear, I don't have any problem with either expressing negative opinions about Helix, nor recommending that you sell Helix and buy Fractal. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of denouncing one and doing the other.

[johnonguitar]

So, let me get this straight. It's not OK for someone else to express a negative opinion about Helix in this forum, but it is OK for you to recommend that people sell their Helix and buy a competitor's product. How does that work? I think your Fractal tattoo is showing again.

 

Don't bother replying with another of your personal attacks.

 

EDIT: Just to be clear, I don't have any problem with either expressing negative opinions about Helix, nor recommending that you sell Helix and buy Fractal. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of denouncing one and doing the other.

Wow cross thread quoting. That's intense. New level of stalking and provocation.

 

I have a Helix. I gig my helix. I love my freakin Helix. I'd recommend the Helix to anyone who was looking for such a thing

 

If you can't see why if you need/want options that are on the Ax8 but the functionality of the Helix that buying an Ax2 with floorboard could possibly make sense and instead find reason to cause an arguement I think you might just be lookin for a fight.

[brue58ski]

However it all works out, I would be curious what your opinion will be after time. I can already hear the keyboards clacking so before you post, let me say this guy does seem to be genuine and not some kind of troller. And, yes, we all know, it is JUST his opinion. Based on his other posts I've seen, he doesn't seem to have a bias (yet ;) ). He just seems to be looking for good tones, like we all are, and, I think, is looking for something that would have the pluses that each  of them have. So after 6 months to a year, I'd be curious as to what he thinks. Is it actually worth having both, or would one do it?

Back to the OP, so after 6 months to a year, tell us (me) what you think.

 

As for me, I'm going Helix no matter what. Just trying to come up with the bones.

[brue58ski]

One thought about hooking them up depends on how Helix works. I'm assuming you can put each of the FX sends on the Helix anywhere in the chain. If that's true, you could put a send right after the input and plug that send into the instrument input (or where ever you plug your guitar in) of the  Axe FX. Now you essentially have each unit working completely by themselves with the same guitar.

If you want to use only one pedal to control everything, connect them using the MIDI.

Now you have 4 master(?) outputs 2 for each device. Of course you could just hook each one up to a mixer/PA, Or to a small mixer and use it's outputs to feed the mixer/PA. Or the outputs of one into the FX returns of the other.

Really, since there are so many possible options available, you need to come up with exactly how you would like them to interact with each other sound and control wise. Then figure out how to connect them using all of the options available. I'll bet you could come close to what you want. If not exactly what you want.

[massimosevero]

it's a choice I don't understand, it's my opinion of course, because they do the same thing, it could make sense with a fx8 or better a h9, but another amp simulator not.

I have a kemper too, but I don't use it with my helix..they start from different points but with the same goal, amp simulator with effects...so for me use helix and ax8 together is like to open a bottle with 2 corkscrews... ;-)

[roscoe5]

I think it could be cool to have the AX8 in a Helix send/return loop for yet more amp models available via snapshot/midi in a single Helix preset.  I'm pretty sure it has amp models that Helix doesn't so it could be a nice compliment.

 

Also, I think AX8 utilizes ultra-res IR's up to 8000 samples, so the same IR's/cabs may sound much better in AX8 with either Fractal amps or Helix amps.  Just using the AX-8 Ultra-res cabs may take the Helix amps to the next level.  Plus, this may give the ability to use convolution reverb IR's and better sounding acoustic model IR's.   Again, I'm guessing you would use a Helix send/return block after a Helix amp model.  Maybe multiple S/R blocks.

 

Fractal Cab Lab and IR mixer would be handy.

 

AX-8 also has a 4 minute mono and 2 minute stereo looper and good control layout.

 

I wonder if there is a way to set the AX8 up to control Helix snapshots via MIDI full time and leave Helix in stomp and/or preset mode.  AX-8 has 8 preset buttons and MIDI capability.  

 

I also love the fact that you can get both of these units for about the cost of a full on Axe FX II and foot controller...sans rack!

 

Personally, I would probably never get through a whole song if I had both of these units and all of those options in front of me.

 

I look forward to Miguel's findings...and hopefully some recordings of Helix amps into Fractal AX-8 Ultra-res cabs :)

[HonestOpinion]

...

Also, I think AX8 utilizes ultra-res IR's up to 8000 samples, so the same IR's/cabs may sound much better in AX8 with either Fractal amps or Helix amps.  Just using the AX-8 Ultra-res cabs may take the Helix amps to the next level.  Plus, this may give the ability to use convolution reverb IR's and better sounding acoustic model IR's.   ...

 

Hmmm, the hardware, at least the DSP chips, on the AX8 are the same as the Helix. I wonder why the Fractal's ability to handle IRs is so superior and ultimately if they could improve the IR handling on the Helix?

[miguel_lopez]

I think it could be cool to have the AX8 in a Helix send/return loop for yet more amp models available via snapshot/midi in a single Helix preset.  I'm pretty sure it has amp models that Helix doesn't so it could be a nice compliment.

 

Also, I think AX8 utilizes ultra-res IR's up to 8000 samples, so the same IR's/cabs may sound much better in AX8 with either Fractal amps or Helix amps.  Just using the AX-8 Ultra-res cabs may take the Helix amps to the next level.  Plus, this may give the ability to use convolution reverb IR's and better sounding acoustic model IR's.   Again, I'm guessing you would use a Helix send/return block after a Helix amp model.  Maybe multiple S/R blocks.

 

Fractal Cab Lab and IR mixer would be handy.

 

AX-8 also has a 4 minute mono and 2 minute stereo looper and good control layout.

 

I wonder if there is a way to set the AX8 up to control Helix snapshots via MIDI full time and leave Helix in stomp and/or preset mode.  AX-8 has 8 preset buttons and MIDI capability.  

 

I also love the fact that you can get both of these units for about the cost of a full on Axe FX II and foot controller...sans rack!

 

Personally, I would probably never get through a whole song if I had both of these units and all of those options in front of me.

 

I look forward to Miguel's findings...and hopefully some recordings of Helix amps into Fractal AX-8 Ultra-res cabs :)

 

Roscoe5 thank you very much for such a great input here!

 

this is the light at the end of a dark and cold tunnel I wanted to see

 

I've seen you are after better IR's options, since it's a Helix "weakness", also I've seen you have shared lots of GREAT ideasin older posts, so as in here, to go further and try to develope better tones thru better IR's possibilities. Thank you for that helping hand

 

I'm jus a humble musician/artist obsessed with the L&R channel tones, I have almost everything in my equipment set in stereo; two of almost the same stuff: 2 same heads of every amp I have, two of every cab I have, two of etc...

 

Yes, my question is more about getting these units working interactively, but now you mention it, I think it has a bug potential for nice tunes

 

back to the original purpose, I remember having also two different kind of everything in my gear: randal/boogie, Fender/Matchless, Soldano/Marshall... and the same as cabs: v30/gt75, 100k/black shadow, greenback/G12h... and mics: shure/AKG, Sennheiser/Neuman etc...

 

nowadays sometimes I think is a little messy if it's out of control, but when you hear both sftuff working together you notice something different from the bunch of artist around

 

so, having both units will let me work them together in many ways

 

when I got Helix I was shocked using the high gain stuff from PODxt running thru the many "weak" options of CAB/MICS in the helix, and tones of tone correction with global eq, HIFI effects, reverbs, and many other options Helix offers

 

yesterday was too late night to keep rocking loud, but I olny tested the first 16 prsets and I noticed it's a VERY different animal/beast from Helix

 

since I only have a modest car and I've never tried a Lamborgini or a Ferrari, I could say, I suppose(imagine) it's something like that, Man! I don't know what I'm saying, but for sure, L6 and Fractal has NOTHING to do if comparing between them is the purpose

 

having in left channel such a monster as Helix and on the right channel that tiny sucker AX8 may not result into a bad combination after all

 

cheerz and thanx for your kind reply and support

[miguel_lopez]

it's a choice I don't understand, it's my opinion of course, because they do the same thing, it could make sense with a fx8 or better a h9, but another amp simulator not.

I have a kemper too, but I don't use it with my helix..they start from different points but with the same goal, amp simulator with effects...so for me use helix and ax8 together is like to open a bottle with 2 corkscrews... ;-)

as far as I've gone, trust me, they are very different, I mean the tone; yes, they do the same, yes, it's like opening a bottle the way you said, but they sound DIFFERENT(the feel DIFFERENT)

[roscoe5]

Hmmm, the hardware at least the DSP chips on the AX8 are the same as the Helix. I wonder why the Fractal's ability to handle IRs is so superior and ultimately if they could improve the IR handling on the Helix?

 

I believe they dedicate an entire processor to just the cab model.  Thus, I don't think you can run dual amps/cabs.  I may be mistaken though.

 

So moving the IR's / cab models out of Helix into AX-8, accessed via Helix send/return blocks, could buy back some Helix processing.  You could also get a 5th (& 6th with AX8 XY?) amp in a single Helix preset with AX-8.

 

Add potential Helix snapshot instant access via AX-8 MIDI and reverse MIDI control of AX-8, there are seriously some goo d possibilities.

 

Honestly, a good tube head and cab can be $3k without even getting into pedals.  I think there is value there with both devices as your entire rig, with bonus full redundancy and backup.  Heck, the AX8 looks like it might fit in the Helix backpack front pouch.  Nice of Line 6 to include a "guest room" ;)

[zooey]

Not full redundancy. Once you rocked that rig w both for a while, you'd want to hide under your bed if you had to use just one of 'em.

 

What's that saying, GAS expands to fill the budget available? Plus 300% or so. Or something...

 

Would give you a lot of cool choices though, if a bit unwieldy...

[roscoe5]

Yeah you're right zooey, if one died you might be scrambling unless you were UBER prepared with backup patches on each.  You can finish a gig with some basic stuff on either though.  Better than a donut spare tire ;)

[HonestOpinion]

I believe they dedicate an entire processor to just the cab model.  Thus, I don't think you can run dual amps/cabs.  I may be mistaken though.

 

...

 

Still sounds like the potential might be there for Helix to up the byte limit on the IRs, even if it ate up an entire route/'DSP processor' on the Helix when you loaded up a large IR. I wonder how the amount of memory onboard the Helix compares with the amount of memory on the AX8. Large IRs also take up more memory.

[johnonguitar]

Practically though what are you going to do? Fit them on a massive pedalboard? Put one in a rack drawer? Keep them loose and rewire at every gig and rehearsal? It's also going to take up an awkward footprint on stage

[miguel_lopez]

Practically though what are you going to do? Fit them on a massive pedalboard? Put one in a rack drawer? Keep them loose and rewire at every gig and rehearsal? It's also going to take up an awkward footprint on stage

I have two PODxt live and still use them in live gigs to make my crossover stuff which took me a long time practice to get them incredibly working together the way I always wanted

 

nowadays with helix that's possible with a single set up and you have the blender pedal expression

 

since I feel very different both units it would be back to the old style when I used to carry TWO PODxt Live in my gear to gig every time; so, it's not a big deal, I've been there before

[johnonguitar]

I have two PODxt live and still use them in live gigs to make my crossover stuff which took me a long time practice to get them incredibly working together the way I always wanted

 

nowadays with helix that's possible with a single set up and you have the blender pedal expression

 

since I feel very different both units it would be back to the old style when I used to carry TWO PODxt Live in my gear to gig every time; so, it's not a big deal, I've been there before

Wow that's amazing/nuts!

 

http://www.decibel11.com/Pedal-Palette.html

 

Get one of these and just go routing crazy with them!

[sb77]

as far as I've gone, trust me, they are very different, I mean the tone; yes, they do the same, yes, it's like opening a bottle the way you said, but they sound DIFFERENT(the feel DIFFERENT)

I too have both and yes they do sound very different. Not so much about the DSPs more the firmware to generate the models I think?

Either way , I use mine in parallel but I rely on the AX-8 for MIDI tempo sync still sadly absent from Helix.

I also far prefer the high gain amps in AX-8. The Helix Engl does do well tho.

Ultimately there is already well discussed pros & cons but personal preferences are just that. If I was absolutely forced to sell one I am afraid it would be Helix.

[johnonguitar]

I too have both and yes they do sound very different. Not so much about the DSPs more the firmware to generate the models I think?

Either way , I use mine in parallel but I rely on the AX-8 for MIDI tempo sync still sadly absent from Helix.

I also far prefer the high gain amps in AX-8. The Helix Engl does do well tho.

Ultimately there is already well discussed pros & cons but personal preferences are just that. If I was absolutely forced to sell one I am afraid it would be Helix.

Are you primarily a high gain player?

[sb77]

Are you primarily a high gain player?

Yes. Be true to say that.

 

But I also need MIDI sync to drum box & sequencers.

[johnonguitar]

Yes. Be true to say that.

 

But I also need MIDI sync to drum box & sequencers.

I may be talking nonsense but I've found a massive difference in the amount of distortion you end up hearing between any of the standard cabs and the 2038samples IR's. With the IR's giving a much more abd fuller distorted sound.

[PeterHamm]

If I could afford to own both, I would, too.