Jump to content

Future of Helix


No6h
 Share

Recommended Posts

Kemper newest Delays sound magnificent! They are very configurable, from subtle to extreme.

 

Helix's Reverbs and Delays deserve improvements elevating them to perfection. DI depicted the forthcoming release as "minor," plus containing bug fixes. This may not be inclusive of revamping the Delays and Reverbs. It could be 2017 before we see significant improvements. TIme will tell....

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are the delays really that bad? Vintage Digital was a great add on. The DMM model isn't my favourite DMM model of all time but it's defitinly not a toy

 

I suspect the people that complain the most about delays and reverbs are those that use more heavily laden effects in their setups.  For people like myself that use them as subtle enhancements to the basic tone of the guitar, what's there is more than adequate.  But then I've never felt the need for a floorboard full of effects which could be the difference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are the delays really that bad? Vintage Digital was a great add on. The DMM model isn't my favourite DMM model of all time but it's defitinly not a toy

The delays are spectacular. Just look up the videos comparing it to the Timeline on YouTube!

 

The Helix delays have a lot of character. strongly disagree about what's been stated about the delays. They are totally newly modeled effects, unlike the reverbs, that were ported from HD and optimized. While the reverbs are good, I'm sure they will be remodeled at some point, but the delays? Don't change them, add more, but don't change them, please! Love the transistor tape delay and mod swell delay! YMMV.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suspect the people that complain the most about delays and reverbs are those that use more heavily laden effects in their setups. For people like myself that use them as subtle enhancements to the basic tone of the guitar, what's there is more than adequate. But then I've never felt the need for a floorboard full of effects which could be the difference.

Yeah you're probably right. I'm not that guy either.

 

Although I do appreciate a good anologue delay I don't think I've really played any digital stuff that ever blew me away.

 

The G-System and G-Force had some nice stuff on them from but wasn't like wooooow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just on the same topic, didn't the Vetta II have 74 amp models, 25 Cabs, and over 80 effects stomp boxes?  Why would they have cut all of that out?  Is there a reason for that?  I've had the Vetta II for probably around 10 years now and I'm looking for something smaller with which I can get most or all of the great sounds I get out of the Vetta II.  I am an effect junkie sometimes, and I love having the different selections.  I understand and agree that 25 is a lot, BUT, if they already had 74, why cut down to 25?  It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

 

 Btw, the Line6 Website says the Helix has 53 Amps, 30 Cabs, 16 Mics, and 93 Effects.  So where is everybody getting the 25 from?

 

I imagine that they decided to scale back on the total number of amps they modeled for a few different reasons. It seemed like with the HD and DT integration, they wanted to categorize the amp models into different families that had similar power tube topologies, so they probably thought there was some redundancy with what was in the X3 model list. So that carried over in the Helix design as well. I also think that maybe they think that they might be better off modeling some newer amps in the future rather than focusing on those ones that they did for the Vetta/XT/POD Farm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kemper newest Delays sound magnificent! They are very configurable, from subtle to extreme.

 

Helix's Reverbs and Delays deserve improvements elevating them to perfection. DI depicted the forthcoming release as "minor," plus containing bug fixes. This may not be inclusive of revamping the Delays and Reverbs. It could be 2017 before we see significant improvements. TIme will tell....

 

I think the Helix delays are lovely as they stand. I have the Strymon TimeLine, and have to confess I've barely used it since getting the Helix. I'm not sure in what way anyone could call the HX delays lacking. I'm sure there are some specific bobbles and whistles that other manufactures have, but the core sound of the Helix delays is awesome. The tape model alone is a thing of beauty. It might be my favorite tape model right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kemper newest Delays sound magnificent! They are very configurable, from subtle to extreme.

 

Helix's Reverbs and Delays deserve improvements elevating them to perfection. DI depicted the forthcoming release as "minor," plus containing bug fixes. This may not be inclusive of revamping the Delays and Reverbs. It could be 2017 before we see significant improvements. TIme will tell....

Cool on the Kemper, although I don't have one. If I even feel the need to have more amp tones, I will get a Kemper and run it in tandem with my Helix.

 

On the Helix Future. I agree with your second statement. This update will prolly be minor update for some stability improvements.  But in 2017 first half I do expect new ASIO Drivers for the Helix.

 

As for the Helix life in general it can use a couple more Highgain amps (such as the XTC, or Archon). I also expect some significant improvements to the reverbs. I wouldn't be against improving the delays, but for the most part they sound great as is, the reverbs definitely need it more.  More effects that are not covered such as some filters/synth, and stuff like a vocal harmonizer/ or vocoder. But I don't expect them in the next update, or the one after it, but I expect a decent amount of this to be taken care of by the end of 2017, and that is not unreasonable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps some of them are just models of a different channel of the same amp?

Yes they count channels, which makes more sense because sometimes they don't model the whole amp (e.g. the Shiva is only gain, not clean channel, recto is not all modes etc)

 

If Helix had 25 complete amps that would be a lot! But even with the 53 channels you get a big palate to play around with.

 

Wonder which amp makes it with this minor update, a Dumble(ish) amp or more hot rodded Marshal stuff (Suhr PT100, Friedman BE100 etc) or more high gaib stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the Helix delays are lovely as they stand. I have the Strymon TimeLine, and have to confess I've barely used it since getting the Helix. I'm not sure in what way anyone could call the HX delays lacking. I'm sure there are some specific bobbles and whistles that other manufactures have, but the core sound of the Helix delays is awesome. The tape model alone is a thing of beauty. It might be my favorite tape model right now.

 

I have an M5 attached to a Helix send/return solely for its auto-volume.  If auto-volume were to magically appear in an update, the Helix delays would be even more "lovely", for me anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps some of them are just models of a different channel of the same amp?

 

I guess you're right, after a second look at the list, 13 of the guitar amps were duplicates and 7 were bass amps.  So 53 - 20 = 33 amps.  Are some of them on this list not actually on the product?

 

Guitar Amps:

WhoWatt 100 Guitar Hiwatt® DR-103 Brill

Soup Pro Guitar Supro® S6616

Stone Age 185 Guitar Gibson® EH-185

Tweed Blues Nrm Guitar Fender® Bassman® (normal channel)

Tweed Blues Brt Guitar Fender® Bassman® (bright channel)

US Small Tweed Guitar Fender® Champ

US Deluxe Nrm Guitar Fender® Deluxe Reverb® (normal channel)

US Deluxe Vib Guitar Fender® Deluxe Reverb® (vibrato channel)

US Double Nrm Guitar Fender® Twin Reverb® (normal channel)

US Double Vib Guitar Fender® Twin Reverb® (vibrato channel)

Mail Order Twin Guitar Silvertone® 1484

Divided Duo Guitar ÷13 JRT 9/15

Interstate Zed Guitar Dr Z® Route 66

Jazz Rivet 120 Guitar Roland® JC-120 Jazz Chorus

Essex A-15 Guitar Vox® AC-15

Essex A-30 Guitar Vox® AC-30 with top boost

A-30 Fawn Nrm Guitar Vox® AC-30 Fawn (normal channel)

A-30 Fawn Brt Guitar Vox® AC-30 Fawn (bright channel)

Mandarin 80 Guitar Orangeâ„¢ OR80

Brit J-45 Nrm Guitar Marshall® JTM-45 (normal channel)

Brit J-45 Brt Guitar Marshall® JTM-45 (bright channel)

Brit Plexi Nrm Guitar Marshall® Super Lead 100 (normal channel)

Brit Plexi Brt Guitar Marshall® Super Lead 100 (bright channel)

Brit Plexi Jump Guitar Marshall® Super Lead 100 (jumped)

Brit P-75 Nrm Guitar Park® 75 (normal channel)

Brit P-75 Brt Guitar Park® 75 (bright channel)

Brit 2204 Guitar Marshall® JCM-800

German Mahadeva Guitar Bogner® Shiva®

German Ubersonic Guitar Bogner® Überschall®

Cali IV Rhythm 1 Guitar MESA/Boogie® Mark IV (Channel 1)

Cali IV Rhythm 2 Guitar MESA/Boogie® Mark IV (Channel 2)

Cali IV Lead Guitar MESA/Boogie® Mark IV (Lead Channel)

Cali Rectifire Guitar MESA/Boogie® Dual Rectifier®

ANGL Meteor Guitar ENGL® Fireball 100

Solo Lead Clean Guitar Soldano® SLO-100 (clean channel)

Solo Lead Crunch Guitar Soldano® SLO-100 (crunch channel)

Solo Lead OD Guitar Soldano® SLO-100 (overdrive channel)

PV Panama Guitar Peavey® 5150®

Line 6 Elektrik Guitar Line 6 Original

Line 6 Doom Guitar Line 6 Original

Line 6 Epic Guitar Line 6 Original

Line 6 2204 Mod Guitar Line 6 Original

Line 6 Fatality Guitar Line 6 Original

 

Bass Amps:

Tuck n' Go Bass Ampeg® B-15NF Portaflex®

SV Beast Nrm Bass Ampeg® SVT (normal channel)

SV Beast Brt Bass Ampeg® SVT (bright channel)

Cali Bass Bass MESA/Boogie® M9 Carbine

Cali 400 Ch1 Bass MESA/Boogie® Bass 400+ (channel 1)

Cali 400 Ch2 Bass MESA/Boogie® Bass 400+ (channel 2)

G Cougar 800 Bass Gallien-Krueger® GK 800RB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suspect the people that complain the most about delays and reverbs are those that use more heavily laden effects in their setups.  For people like myself that use them as subtle enhancements to the basic tone of the guitar, what's there is more than adequate.  But then I've never felt the need for a floorboard full of effects which could be the difference.

 

I'm with you. For me, effects are like spices; used modestly, they enhance the flavor of the meat; use too much and they overpower it. I do have one patch that has a bunch of delay, reverb, chorus and compression; it's for volume pedal swells. But it's the exception and something I only use occasionally. I've got no complaints about the Helix delays; they sound great to me!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...I've got no complaints about the Helix delays; they sound great to me!

 

I agree the delays are excellent, it is the reverbs that need to be upgraded to Helix level hardware/software. Along these lines, despite the fact that it is primarily intended as a guitar processor, it would be great to see the Helix include some top quality vocal processing for the Helix that would essentially be along the same lines as the T.C. Helicon Live 3 or a similar device.  However, you can indeed get a decent vocal sound now. I have a full band and a duo, excellent vocal processing is a particularly nice feature for singer/songwriters using a minimal PA or even direct to powered speakers for small gigs. Not top of my priority list but this is an area where the Helix could still grow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thinking out loud and in no specific order or patch in mind- Like the JTV-69 Variax Strat setting that needs to be redone IMO (just too mild in comparison with my 93 Strat), Im thinking instead of adding gobs more amps, maybe refining what we have now to an even higher level (if possible) tone wise, would be more to my liking. No Im not saying I don't like most of them, but theres alway room for improvement. Case in point, Kemper just released a firmware upgrade that added some killer delays... They already had delays but improved and added to them.

Have you tried to use Workbench to adjust your Variax more to your liking yet?

 

I'm so, shall we say, lost myself in exploring the Helix, I haven't even begun to explore what the Variax can really do beyond its basic settings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you tried to use Workbench to adjust your Variax more to your liking yet?

 

I'm so, shall we say, lost myself in exploring the Helix, I haven't even begun to explore what the Variax can really do beyond its basic settings.

 

Actually, Im waiting for Helix and Workbench to work together so that I know what Im doing on the Variax on the Helix patch I want to do it with.... If that makes sense. But I still think that even doubling up pups or turning up the gains, there is still the profound differences between the Variax strat tones and strength versus a regular strat tone and strength (including mine). But I'll deal with as I have been, just saying and its not a show stopper.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Man, you are totally right about the Kemper 5.0 delays.  They sound absolutely magnificent!  I really hope that the crew at Line 6 checks out some of the demos of them so that they can see the difference.  The L6 delays in the Helix almost sound muffled and masked in comparison. 

 

 

To me, the delays are such a bread-and-butter tool for a modern guitarist that they should really be on the top of the priority list.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my opinion there's only a few things missing to be on par with the Timeline: a decent shimmer/crystals sound, and the most musical feature in a delay pedal ever: envelope triggered reverse delay. While I love the sound of the delays in Helix, the reverse delay in the Timeline is totally predictable, and no other pedal does this.

Also, having access to auto volume and to a decent polyphonic tracking octaver would be a great addiction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've watched some demos of the new Kempber 5.0 Beta: To me there isn't that much of a difference in quality if any.

There are so many options in Helix that change the sound of a effect, begining in where the effect is placed. I usally place delays and reverb after the amp, but depends on the signal chain. I'm one of those that use delays and reverbs very subltle to underline the overall and already good sound, except if used as an effect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Depending on the original amp's complexity, quirks, and nuances, HX component-level modeling takes anywhere from three to eight weeks per channel. If we were to speed up that process—or take shortcuts—the amps wouldn't sound and behave as close to the real thing as they do. Quality over quantity is the mantra.

 

It's not unlike CGI. Crossing the uncanny valley takes a ton of expertise and a lot of time.

  • Upvote 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

It's not unlike CGI. Crossing the uncanny valley takes a ton of expertise and a lot of time.

 

 

That's a pretty interesting statement. I'd never applied the "Uncanny Valley" concept to thinking about amp modeling, but it makes a lot of sense, and is rather thought provoking. I guess I have a lot of things to ponder....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Depending on the original amp's complexity, quirks, and nuances, HX component-level modeling takes anywhere from three to eight weeks per channel. If we were to speed up that process—or take shortcuts—the amps wouldn't sound and behave as close to the real thing as they do. Quality over quantity is the mantra.

 

It's not unlike CGI. Crossing the uncanny valley takes a ton of expertise and a lot of time.

I really appreciate that the Helix crew decided to go the quality route! I'd rather wait longer for it, and you already gave us a lot with Helix from the go and the very substantial updates! Keep up the good work! ;)

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess you're right, after a second look at the list, 13 of the guitar amps were duplicates and 7 were bass amps.  So 53 - 20 = 33 amps.  Are some of them on this list not actually on the product?

 

Guitar Amps:

WhoWatt 100 Guitar Hiwatt® DR-103 Brill

Soup Pro Guitar Supro® S6616

Stone Age 185 Guitar Gibson® EH-185

Tweed Blues Nrm Guitar Fender® Bassman® (normal channel)

Tweed Blues Brt Guitar Fender® Bassman® (bright channel)

US Small Tweed Guitar Fender® Champ

US Deluxe Nrm Guitar Fender® Deluxe Reverb® (normal channel)

US Deluxe Vib Guitar Fender® Deluxe Reverb® (vibrato channel)

US Double Nrm Guitar Fender® Twin Reverb® (normal channel)

US Double Vib Guitar Fender® Twin Reverb® (vibrato channel)

Mail Order Twin Guitar Silvertone® 1484

Divided Duo Guitar ÷13 JRT 9/15

Interstate Zed Guitar Dr Z® Route 66

Jazz Rivet 120 Guitar Roland® JC-120 Jazz Chorus

Essex A-15 Guitar Vox® AC-15

Essex A-30 Guitar Vox® AC-30 with top boost

A-30 Fawn Nrm Guitar Vox® AC-30 Fawn (normal channel)

A-30 Fawn Brt Guitar Vox® AC-30 Fawn (bright channel)

Mandarin 80 Guitar Orangeâ„¢ OR80

Brit J-45 Nrm Guitar Marshall® JTM-45 (normal channel)

Brit J-45 Brt Guitar Marshall® JTM-45 (bright channel)

Brit Plexi Nrm Guitar Marshall® Super Lead 100 (normal channel)

Brit Plexi Brt Guitar Marshall® Super Lead 100 (bright channel)

Brit Plexi Jump Guitar Marshall® Super Lead 100 (jumped)

Brit P-75 Nrm Guitar Park® 75 (normal channel)

Brit P-75 Brt Guitar Park® 75 (bright channel)

Brit 2204 Guitar Marshall® JCM-800

German Mahadeva Guitar Bogner® Shiva®

German Ubersonic Guitar Bogner® Überschall®

Cali IV Rhythm 1 Guitar MESA/Boogie® Mark IV (Channel 1)

Cali IV Rhythm 2 Guitar MESA/Boogie® Mark IV (Channel 2)

Cali IV Lead Guitar MESA/Boogie® Mark IV (Lead Channel)

Cali Rectifire Guitar MESA/Boogie® Dual Rectifier®

ANGL Meteor Guitar ENGL® Fireball 100

Solo Lead Clean Guitar Soldano® SLO-100 (clean channel)

Solo Lead Crunch Guitar Soldano® SLO-100 (crunch channel)

Solo Lead OD Guitar Soldano® SLO-100 (overdrive channel)

PV Panama Guitar Peavey® 5150®

Line 6 Elektrik Guitar Line 6 Original

Line 6 Doom Guitar Line 6 Original

Line 6 Epic Guitar Line 6 Original

Line 6 2204 Mod Guitar Line 6 Original

Line 6 Fatality Guitar Line 6 Original

 

Bass Amps:

Tuck n' Go Bass Ampeg® B-15NF Portaflex®

SV Beast Nrm Bass Ampeg® SVT (normal channel)

SV Beast Brt Bass Ampeg® SVT (bright channel)

Cali Bass Bass MESA/Boogie® M9 Carbine

Cali 400 Ch1 Bass MESA/Boogie® Bass 400+ (channel 1)

Cali 400 Ch2 Bass MESA/Boogie® Bass 400+ (channel 2)

G Cougar 800 Bass Gallien-Krueger® GK 800RB

 

Duplicates?  Are you really saying a mesa clean channel and dirty channel are duplicates?

 

From this list, the 3 matchless channels are missing.  That would make 53 "amps".  I'm not sure why anyone would say that a bass amp doesn't count as an amp??  What, don't bass players count?

 

They count a channel as an amp, because, technically, it is.  A typical multichannel "amp" actually contains multiple amplifiers if you think about it, each preamp and amplifier combination could be packaged as an amplifier all by itself.

 

And, in the end, who really cares how many they have... I just want amps that I can use.  And I want to be able to vary my sound, so I don't always sound the same.  And, in the end, I just wanna play!!!

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Duplicates?  Are you really saying a mesa clean channel and dirty channel are duplicates?

 

From this list, the 3 matchless channels are missing.  That would make 53 "amps".  I'm not sure why anyone would say that a bass amp doesn't count as an amp??  What, don't bass players count?

 

They count a channel as an amp, because, technically, it is.  A typical multichannel "amp" actually contains multiple amplifiers if you think about it, each preamp and amplifier combination could be packaged as an amplifier all by itself.

 

And, in the end, who really cares how many they have... I just want amps that I can use.  And I want to be able to vary my sound, so I don't always sound the same.  And, in the end, I just wanna play!!!

 

Apparently, for some people, the count of the number of amps in a device is equivalent to the size of your manhood...  ;)

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

LOL, we better get this update soon, things are degenerating remarkably quickly on the forum. I'd hate to see it get shut down on a public indecency charge before the new firmware gets here. :D

 

 

Well, so far it's been mostly just double entendres and innuendos... well, mine was/is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LOL, we better get this update soon, things are degenerating remarkably quickly on the forum. I'd hate to see it get shut down on a public indecency charge before the new firmware gets here. :D

Im sure our date oops I mean update will come in the morning say 9 am-  ish    :P    ( est.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...