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mlaptewicz

Volume drop from dirty to clean amps

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Hi,

I've owned a HD500x for a few years and I'm struggling with a few things. Mostly the volume between patches. I play in Soundgarden/Audioslave tribute band and I'm using the HD500x straight into the effects return on a Mesa Boogie Roadster 2 x 12" combo amp.  So I am basically bypassing the Mesas awesome pre-amps and using it as a speaker and all my effects and amp modeling are done by the HD500x.  I gave up on the 4-cable method after a few gigs which left me very disappointed. It's sad to see my Mesa become a speaker. But I digress. I have a patch set up for each song as required. I've figured out how to have dual tones setup and assign a FS to switch between amps where one volume is at 0 and the other at 100% and this is switched nicely with an FS. However, I really can't get the clean channel to sound loud enough.  What am I doing wrong?  I'm noticing it when I use the Blackface 'Lux Vib - '64 Fender® Deluxe Reverb® Vibrato and Treadplate - 2001 Mesa/Boogie® Dual Rectifier®.

I've been trying to use the volume and master volume to match the volumes like you would on a multichannel tube amp but I am failing. I should say that I have checked all the obvious problems such as guitar volume knob and the expression pedal. It's not those things. Can I pick a better clean amp and push it with a compressor or clean boost?  Frustrating!

 

Another question, how can I get a 20db bump when I engage the wah?  All my solos are getting lost. It's really odd.  

 

I'm also wondering if I can just use the HD500x for effects and bypass the amp modeling and plug it into the front of my amp. 

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Real volume vs perceived volume. 

Distorted sounds are always perceived to be louder. Using a sound meter to get actual volume levels will help.

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in addition to the amp model channel volume and the mixer block faders, you can put the included booster or a clean EQ FX after the amp model that needs boosting..

 

of course you can use the POD only for FXs in front of your amp, in that case I suggest to select the transparent Studio/DIrect output mode, better choice until you don't use amp models

Cool, thanks for bringing that up.  I'm looking at the manual for that now. I'm assuming you are talking about page 18.  http://line6.com/data/6/0a06434c6fb051e03e8ab63dc/application/pdf/POD%20HD500X%20Advanced%20Guide%20-%20English%20(%20Rev%20A%20).pdf

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Real volume vs perceived volume. 

Distorted sounds are always perceived to be louder. Using a sound meter to get actual volume levels will help.

I understand this, but seriously I can barely here the clean amp on 100% volume.  I couldn't even handle the volume of the dirty amp on 100%.  It would be WAY too loud. There must something I am missing.  I'm wondering if somehow I have it panned right or left on the mixer block that goes after the amp blocks.  Maybe if its panned hard to one side and I'm using the mono output for the wrong side this could happen. It's not muted though. It's just barely audible. Hmmm.

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Cool, thanks for bringing that up.  I'm looking at the manual for that now. I'm assuming you are talking about page 18.  http://line6.com/data/6/0a06434c6fb051e03e8ab63dc/application/pdf/POD%20HD500X%20Advanced%20Guide%20-%20English%20(%20Rev%20A%20).pdf

Also for this, if I were to run studio/direct mode do I just select no amp block?  This is assuming going into the front of the amp and using my Mesa Boogie to do all the clean and dirty switching. 

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yes, is better to use studio/direct mode instead of combo front or stack front since studio/direct is transparent, whereas the other 2 "front" options apply sort of a global eq which is good only if you use also the amp models, but not to use only FXs

Awesome.  I'll try that. I read something about changing a stomp versus line switch on the back.  Should I do that as well?  Does the studio/direct disable the cab simulator/mic/AIR as well?  

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Try some eq changes at the current volume to see if it sits in the mix in a place that it can be heard within the total band mix.

 

I've experienced this a couple of times.  
I've lowered the preset volume of the crunch channel to match it up, and found that sometimes it's a matter of pulling out some of the lows or raising some of the mids to get the clean to sit & be heard well.

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I understand this, but seriously I can barely here the clean amp on 100% volume. I couldn't even handle the volume of the dirty amp on 100%. It would be WAY too loud. There must something I am missing. I'm wondering if somehow I have it panned right or left on the mixer block that goes after the amp blocks. Maybe if its panned hard to one side and I'm using the mono output for the wrong side this could happen. It's not muted though. It's just barely audible. Hmmm.

With this, or any other modeler or pre-amp/multi-fx unit, you ALWAYS need to set the volumes of your clean tones first. Get them as loud as you can without clipping, and then adjust the volume of your dirty tones relative to the clean patches. Can't be done the other way around. You will run out of headroom on the clean patches 100% of the time...the cleans need to be your reference point.

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With this, or any other modeler or pre-amp/multi-fx unit, you ALWAYS need to set the volumes of your clean tones first. Get them as loud as you can without clipping, and then adjust the volume of your dirty tones relative to the clean patches. Can't be done the other way around. You will run out of headroom on the clean patches 100% of the time...the cleans need to be your reference point.

 

A big +1 there!

 

I was about to respond to mlaptewicz' question only to discover that you just did :-)

 

What you say is exactly correct and is the first thing that must be done. Fine-tuning volume between patches comes later.

 

You use the Channel volume to balance the clean and overdriven amps. Typically the Ch Vol for quiet clean amps can be set to at or near 100% without making effects further down the chain clip. Try a general Ch Vol of 45% for the overdriven amps. That should get you close to patch parity volume across the board.

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I agree, 

It is natural to get the best signal to noise ratio from any bit of gear.

The higher gain models are louder and sustained.

Doing those first you can never get your cleans to a perceived level match.

Bare in mind the clean is more a transient signal.

Do the Clean Amps first is good advice.

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Hi,

I've owned a HD500x for a few years and I'm struggling with a few things. Mostly the volume between patches.

 

Your clean amp patch volume sets the ceiling for everything else. For example, this is the loudest patch I have:

 

http://line6.com/customtone/tone/2619386/

 

(Done on an HD Bean but there's a tone converter at the top of the page if it won't load on your kit.)

 

Everything else is calibrated down to this clean patch level using Channel Volume (CH VOL). For balancing, I've found that 45% CH VOL is a good place to start with high gain amps. Hope this helps.

 

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With this, or any other modeler or pre-amp/multi-fx unit, you ALWAYS need to set the volumes of your clean tones first. Get them as loud as you can without clipping, and then adjust the volume of your dirty tones relative to the clean patches. Can't be done the other way around. You will run out of headroom on the clean patches 100% of the time...the cleans need to be your reference point.

That's interesting! I never thought of using the clean patch for reference point. I guess my dirty patches have been way too loud all this time lol

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That's interesting! I never thought of using the clean patch for reference point. I guess my dirty patches have been way too loud all this time lol

 

It's the only way to do it. Once you crack this, your patch volume balance issues will go away. You do have to watch out for volume creep on the high-gain patches if you add a gain-boosting pre like an overdrive. Just keep A/B-ing with the reference clean patch to keep everything level. Remember that you can boost your reference clean patch using the Line 6 Vetta Juice just before the mixer block. See my patch example above: set Amount to 0% and Level as needed. Level: 100% = +30dB of clean gain, so there's a lot to play with. Top tip :)

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I never knew about the Vetta Juice, it's great for boosting cleans without distorting! I used to turn up gain but not anymore!

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Noticed the same

 

I changed to blackface clean amp full to get enough sound, even a tube comp before mixer  (threshold 80%, gain 15%)

 

After to tweak disto sound , i take the habit to lower master to 30, so this help to evenly setup volume

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