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Any more 2016 Helix Updates?

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With all due respect, these questions are specifically for Line6/Yamaha. If you are happy with the way it is, then realistically this post is not for you and it is not up for debate. Especially if you do not work for, or at Line6. There are many of us that want to know where this train is headed. Life is short.

  • Any more updates in 2016?
  • Whats the slow down on changes being implemented from Ideascale?
  • Why are there no quarterly updates?
  • Has the Yamaha acquisition slowed you down? Did you lose engineers?
  • Should we expect a Yamahelix successor with functionality that the Helix does not have like Wireless support?
  • What is your current commitment to the Helix?
  • It's about to be 2017. What should we expect? Should we sell our Helix's before a disappointment at a future NAMM 2017?

For the peanut gallery. This post is not for you. This post is for the people that purchased the Helix expecting change and all out support for the platform that is considered their Flagship device considering the way it was advertised. 

There are those of us that expect a decent amount of regular change. This is starting to feel like old Line 6 or even Korg where they released a flagship device, pushed it out the door, made a few updates to the OS and then later abandoned the platform for a new one. Roland did the same thing with their GT/Fantom G series. We don't want the Helix to be a market stopgap to make quick money and dash while the company tries to find itself.

 

I fully recognize it took a while for some of us even to get our hands on the hardware depending on where you are in the world.

I am still pissed about the Looper without quantization and the lack of support for the DT Series Amps and the lack of decent midi and timecode implementation and the fact that it took so long just to get a software interface. There are many of us that see this as a wasted opportunity with all of the other hardware and software releases that we have seen from Line 6. Some of us have higher expectations and that should be expected.

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you bought something, it works, 

 

why worry about what else your gonna get, 

 

your tones very harsh man for a user forum.

 

someone starts "with all due respect" that generally means theyre about to show none, along the lines of " im not racist , but "

 

not up for debate , for the "peanut " gallery, 

 

so if you dont expect comments on your post in a social group.

 

just send it straight to line 6 , then we wont have to "debate " it

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Apparently you're not familiar with how Line 6 works.  Although the do somewhat monitor this forum, they never reveal future plans or very much, if any, detail on the inner workings at the company.  Some of the answers to your questions can be found in the various interviews.with Marcus Ryle and Paul Foekler as it pertains to the merger with Yamaha.  Other than that you'll likely have to be patient just like us and the rest of the music industry to find out what's in store once released.  But don't expect much in terms of inner workings.  That's just not their style.

 

Sincerely,

Mr. Peanut

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  • It's about to be 2017. What should we expect? Should we sell our Helix's before a disappointment at a future NAMM 2017?

If you don't like your Helix - just sell it, man, and let go! ;)

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I can only imagine they've pulled the whole team off what they were doing in order to properly prepare statements in answer to the questions in this thread. Using bold, italics and bullet points in a user forum post is pretty much the same as walking right into the CEO's office as far as saying "I'm totally super serial!" I wouldn't be surprised if the whole operation shuts down while this is handled. Maybe it'll make the news? Maybe we can get updates on the progress: white smoke if they have all the answers for Deneteus, black smoke if they are still working on it? And DI just got married, I hope they don't sequester the employees for too long! But given the gravity of the questions, it's altogether likely I suppose...

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I'm truely amazed by this kind of posts. Looks like people only care about updates and not about what they already have.

 

I read several times the word "expect" in the OP. If people buy a products only based on expectations about firmware updates, we're not done with that kind of posts (and be sure, these guys will never be satisfied).

 

People should just go playing guitar.

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Hostile much? lol

 

A quick scan of this forum regarding the next update (due any day) and you would see posts from Digital Igloo, a VIP in relation to all things Helix, telling us that that ongoing support for Helix (as you said, their flagship product) will continue for a very long time to come and that the Idea-scale submissions change in priority depending on the realms of the possible and employee hours.

 

Updates have been fairly regular. Several amp/effects/functions (Snapshots for example - from Idea-scale) have been added already that enrich the product and they will continue to do so. It would be nice to have more regular updates for sure but would it be a guarantee of quality? I doubt it. I think progressing as we are improving and adding quality additions is important. I really don't want anything added that cheapens the platform. More Helix sales through quality extends longevity.

 

Visit the forums more and maybe research a bit more before making such a petulant conflagratory post.

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There will be a new update, 2.10, coming any day now... So there's that...

 

As far as the frequency of the updates, that is what it is. They have been steadily coming, and they will continue. There are some big plans in the future.

 

As far as Yamaha and Line 6, Yamaha really doesn't get involved with the day to day operations of Line 6, or really much of anything, for that matter. DI has said that Yamaha let them borrow one of their engineers for some of the final parts of Helix' development, but it's not like Yamaha is telling Line 6 how to run the business. Yes, they do own them, but Yamaha has been pretty much hands-off with it subsidiaries in the past, and I don't see any indication that's changing, really.

 

Rest assured there is a lot going on behind the scenes. I know some of it, but of course am bound by an NDA to disclose what I do know. I saw this picture the other day, and I think it applies here. What the public sees as the release is just the tip of the iceberg... There's a lot of hard work being done behind the scenes, and it will be evident as to why in the future.

 

6652d76312fdfe90e52094aa1f9d09d2.jpg

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Obviously asking about any of those topics makes the forum herds salty, since ya'll are generally broken down into a few types. Hence the peanut gallery comment.

 

I'd expect the same retarded responses even without the bold and italics. Because a few of the regulars do not care to ask questions about stuff like that.

It makes ya'll just as bad as the spooks at the AxeFX forums. I have actually seen more info flowing on Facebook than I have here. 

 

Telling people to 'sell if you don't like' it is the same as the Republicans asking for everyone to come together after Trump won. It's not going to happen.

And from this one post that no one will like comes information that people actually care about. Even if it is outright ignored.

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Hostile much? lol

 

A quick scan of this forum regarding the next update (due any day) and you would see posts from Digital Igloo, a VIP in relation to all things Helix, telling us that that ongoing support for Helix (as you said, their flagship product) will continue for a very long time to come and that the Idea-scale submissions change in priority depending on the realms of the possible and employee hours.

 

Updates have been fairly regular. Several amp/effects/functions (Snapshots for example - from Idea-scale) have been added already that enrich the product and they will continue to do so. It would be nice to have more regular updates for sure but would it be a guarantee of quality? I doubt it. I think progressing as we are improving and adding quality additions is important. I really don't want anything added that cheapens the platform. More Helix sales through quality extends longevity.

 

Visit the forums more and maybe research a bit more before making such a petulant conflagratory post.

 

I like how you say updates have been fairly regular. The Ideascale submissions have looked like a gridlock for the past year. Some of them have been closed and under consideration for a while which is why some people aren't using it. The NAMM update was the largest significant update that came out this year because of the release of the software. You brought up the subject of Quality and far as I can tell no one has complained about quality only what actually got added. What could they add that would cheapen the platform? It's already being cheapened by the lack of updates in general. And I visit the forums quite frequently. You don't have to login to read comments remember. There are alot of people that avoid these forums just because of the way some of the members act. Like they are the only say on any matters Line 6 related. God forgive anyone who would rock the boat with questions they don't care about. 

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I can only imagine they've pulled the whole team off what they were doing in order to properly prepare statements in answer to the questions in this thread. Using bold, italics and bullet points in a user forum post is pretty much the same as walking right into the CEO's office as far as saying "I'm totally super serial!" I wouldn't be surprised if the whole operation shuts down while this is handled. Maybe it'll make the news? Maybe we can get updates on the progress: white smoke if they have all the answers for Deneteus, black smoke if they are still working on it? And DI just got married, I hope they don't sequester the employees for too long! But given the gravity of the questions, it's altogether likely I suppose...

Thank you god of the Line 6 forums. This is exactly the response people expect. 

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There will be a new update, 2.10, coming any day now... So there's that...

 

As far as the frequency of the updates, that is what it is. They have been steadily coming, and they will continue. There are some big plans in the future.

 

As far as Yamaha and Line 6, Yamaha really doesn't get involved with the day to day operations of Line 6, or really much of anything, for that matter. DI has said that Yamaha let them borrow one of their engineers for some of the final parts of Helix' development, but it's not like Yamaha is telling Line 6 how to run the business. Yes, they do own them, but Yamaha has been pretty much hands-off with it subsidiaries in the past, and I don't see any indication that's changing, really.

 

Rest assured there is a lot going on behind the scenes. I know some of it, but of course am bound by an NDA to disclose what I do know. I saw this picture the other day, and I think it applies here. What the public sees as the release is just the tip of the iceberg... There's a lot of hard work being done behind the scenes, and it will be evident as to why in the future.

 

6652d76312fdfe90e52094aa1f9d09d2.jpg

 

So the 2.10 update is coming out in 2016 rather than New Years.

 

There seems to be some conflict with what Line6 deems as steady. Which is why I asked.

 

So Yamaha is acting more like a holdings company. They never sell you but they expect you to turn a profit. 

 

I like your iceberg pic but eventually the iceberg melts away and you are left but nothing but seawater. 

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So the 2.10 update is coming out in 2016 rather than New Years.

 

There seems to be some conflict with what Line6 deems as steady. Which is why I asked.

 

So Yamaha is acting more like a holdings company. They never sell you but they expect you to turn a profit.

 

2.10 will be released by next week at the latest...

 

In a sense, yes, Yamaha is essentially acting like a holdings company. The fact that they have their own line of musical instruments and, albeit limited, line of modeling products kind of shows that. They didn't really purchase Line 6 with the intention of integrating them into their own Yamaha-branded products, at as far as can tell and from what everyone has told me.

 

 

I like your iceberg pic but eventually the iceberg melts away and you are left but nothing but seawater. 

 

Boy, you're a real glass half-full kind of guy, aren't ya... :)

 

I mean, really, if you're that pessimistic about Line 6 and their intentions, you may be better off selling the Helix. Life is, like you said, short, and it's too short to play stuff you don't love. Personally, I love the Helix like it is right now, and would be happy with it even if it weren't ever to receive another update. But that actually isn't the case. Like I said, there's plenty of good stuff coming. 2017 will be fun...

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2.10 will be released by next week at the latest...

 

In a sense, yes, Yamaha is essentially acting like a holdings company. The fact that they have their own line of musical instruments and, albeit limited, line of modeling products kind of shows that. They didn't really purchase Line 6 with the intention of integrating them into their own Yamaha-branded products, at as far as can tell and from what everyone has told me.

 

 

 

Boy, you're a real glass half-full kind of guy, aren't ya... :)

 

I mean, really, if you're that pessimistic about Line 6 and their intentions, you may be better off selling the Helix. Life is, like you said, short, and it's too short to play stuff you don't love. Personally, I love the Helix like it is right now, and would be happy with it even if it weren't ever to receive another update. But that actually isn't the case. Like I said, there's plenty of good stuff coming. 2017 will be fun...

He's got to be THE most NEGATIVE poster on this board... jeez.  

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He's got to be THE most NEGATIVE poster on this board... jeez.  

 

Nah... He's got a long way to go before that.

 

Honestly, I don't have problems with anyone expressing their opinion here. I think it's great that Line 6 lets these forums be as open as they are.

 

I'd just remind everyone to please respond respectfully, even if they don't agree with something.

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Well hallelujah! At least that's settled. It's been at least a week since a new "WHEN'S IT COMING?!?! WHEN'S IT COMING?!?!?" thread appeared...the other 75 were clearly insufficient. ;)

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Thank you god of the Line 6 forums. This is exactly the response people expect.

Excelsior!

 

Obviously asking about any of those topics makes the forum herds salty, since ya'll are generally broken down into a few types. Hence the peanut gallery comment.

 

I'd expect the same retarded responses even without the bold and italics. Because a few of the regulars do not care to ask questions about stuff like that.

 

This may or may not be news to you, but your post is not the first, or the hundredth, to "ask questions about stuff like that." There are several very active threads beating these topics to death and well beyond. That may help to explain some of the "saltiness", as you say. Or it might not, I dunno.

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Telling people to 'sell if you don't like' it is the same as the Republicans asking for everyone to come together after Trump won. It's not going to happen.

 

I wouldn't worry about this one too much.  Only a handful of posts, and given his statement above, if Line 6 disappoints him all he's likely to do is seek out a "safe space" for a good cry...   ;)

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It's about to be 2017. What should we expect? Should we sell our Helix's before a disappointment at a future NAMM 2017?

This is an interesting business model: Delay firmware updates until people sell off their Helices, then release the update, get a few people to repurchase a new Helix at full price because of the new models and features, rinse and repeat. Eventually, some people will spend $5000 on their Helix, just from selling and re-buying it. Hmmm... :P

 

 

 

Forget the effort in developing new models and features for a second—testing new models and features is a long, arduous process. And we can't just test the new stuff; the whole system needs an über-detailed, soup-to-nuts analysis, both standalone and with the editor on every supported Mac/Windows OS. Any tiny change should and does require weeks of testing.

 

That said, 2.10 isn't gonna be huge like 2.00, but it's still pretty fun.

 

TL;DR: We give people bigger but less-frequent updates because... testing.

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2.10 will be released by next week at the latest...

 

In a sense, yes, Yamaha is essentially acting like a holdings company. The fact that they have their own line of musical instruments and, albeit limited, line of modeling products kind of shows that. They didn't really purchase Line 6 with the intention of integrating them into their own Yamaha-branded products, at as far as can tell and from what everyone has told me.

 

 

 

Boy, you're a real glass half-full kind of guy, aren't ya... :)

 

I mean, really, if you're that pessimistic about Line 6 and their intentions, you may be better off selling the Helix. Life is, like you said, short, and it's too short to play stuff you don't love. Personally, I love the Helix like it is right now, and would be happy with it even if it weren't ever to receive another update. But that actually isn't the case. Like I said, there's plenty of good stuff coming. 2017 will be fun...

 

Awesome. I figured with all the Yamaha lunchbox amps that they would try and hack together a Yamahahelix. Those amps sold fairly well to desktop/office guitarists.

What I love is when companies put out. :)  Being truthful is always pessimistic to the optimistic. You never know when a fan has cancer.

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...and it is not up for debate.

 

O.K. If it's not up for debate (although, it kinda looks like it is), there is a very simple solution - STOP!

Ars longa, vita brevis!

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TL;DR: We give people bigger but less-frequent updates because... testing.

 

 top-gear-this-t-shirts-were-tested-on-an

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This is an interesting business model: Delay firmware updates until people sell off their Helices, then release the update, get a few people to repurchase a new Helix at full price because of the new models and features, rinse and repeat. Eventually, some people will spend $5000 on their Helix, just from selling and re-buying it. Hmmm... :P

 

 

 

Forget the effort in developing new models and features for a second—testing new models and features is a long, arduous process. And we can't just test the new stuff; the whole system needs an über-detailed, soup-to-nuts analysis, both standalone and with the editor on every supported Mac/Windows OS. Any tiny change should and does require weeks of testing.

 

That said, 2.10 isn't gonna be huge like 2.00, but it's still pretty fun.

 

TL;DR: We give people bigger but less-frequent updates because... testing.

 

It is a valid business model out there in the hardware world. Just look at cell phones. That is a prime example of exactly that. Especially with Android. My problem is companies in the realm tend to skate on reputation. 

 

I'm not forgetting the effort it takes to test at all. I work in Q/A. I don't know anyone that is wasting their time testing on versions of Windows/MAC that are no longer supported. There is a certain point where you know its good, your milestone has been reached and you stop making changes and you get a release out the door so that people know that you haven't fallen off chasing features that need more time to bake. Lord knows ya'll shouldn't be running out of beta testers any time soon.

 

Technically we were all beta testers when it first came out. My Helix locked up more than a few times. I also sent one back with a defect and was told it wasn't a defect when it was. So yeah I have concerns. 

 

I'll be looking forward to the new update. Thanks for answering with some background. 

 

 

 

 

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It is a valid business model out there in the hardware world. Just look at cell phones. That is a prime example of exactly that. Especially with Android. ...

 

Hey, at least your Helix is not made by Samsung. Now that would be truly worrisome although it might make for some interesting pyrotechnics on stage.

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Hey, at least your Helix is not made by Samsung. Now that would be truly worrisome although it might make for some interesting pyrotechnics on stage.

 

Funny you mention that, as Samsung just bought Harman, which owns a few MI brands - AKG, Lexicon, JBL and Digitech to name a few...

 

https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-electronics-to-acquire-harman-accelerating-growth-in-automotive-and-connected-technologies

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Funny you mention that, as Samsung just bought Harman, which owns a few MI brands - AKG, Lexicon, JBL and Digitech to name a few...

 

https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-electronics-to-acquire-harman-accelerating-growth-in-automotive-and-connected-technologies

We should just skip to the end....eventually everything will be an Amazon subsidiary. ;)

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We should just skip to the end....eventually everything will be an Amazon subsidiary. ;)

 

Isn't that what the "A" in U.S.A. stands for? ;)

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It is a valid business model out there in the hardware world. Just look at cell phones. That is a prime example of exactly that. Especially with Android. My problem is companies in the realm tend to skate on reputation. 

 

I'm not forgetting the effort it takes to test at all. I work in Q/A. I don't know anyone that is wasting their time testing on versions of Windows/MAC that are no longer supported. There is a certain point where you know its good, your milestone has been reached and you stop making changes and you get a release out the door so that people know that you haven't fallen off chasing features that need more time to bake. Lord knows ya'll shouldn't be running out of beta testers any time soon.

 

Technically we were all beta testers when it first came out. My Helix locked up more than a few times. I also sent one back with a defect and was told it wasn't a defect when it was. So yeah I have concerns. 

 

I'll be looking forward to the new update. Thanks for answering with some background. 

 

 

 

Quite frankly I'm amazed at the job L6 has done in testing given the complexity of the environment these machines are meant to integrate with.

 

There's an old saying we had in my development and program management days, "The reason God was able to create the world in 7 days is because he didn't have an installed base."

 

I guess that's why I tend to be more patient (and forgiving) when it comes to these sorts of releases.  Most users have a very confined and parochial idea of how a new release is supposed to act based on their unique universe of setup and needs.  But when you factor in all of the potential ways the Helix may be setup and used, plus the variety of platforms the editor runs on (not just software but hardware platforms and the accessories that might be attached and used), not to mention testing the installation procedures in that environment, it boggles the mind they can get as many new features done in each release in as short a period of time as they do given the breadth of testing that must be done.

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Funny you mention that, as Samsung just bought Harman, which owns a few MI brands - AKG, Lexicon, JBL and Digitech to name a few...

 

https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-electronics-to-acquire-harman-accelerating-growth-in-automotive-and-connected-technologies

Oh goodie. 🙄

Now we can get a Lexicon MPX-Claymore Mine.

Exploding JBL EONs anyone?

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Oh goodie.

Now we can get a Lexicon MPX-Claymore Mine.

Exploding JBL EONs anyone?

 

Man, the band was smokin' tonight! :lol:

 

The funny, or perhaps sad, thing is that I imagine these MI brands don't mean much at all to Samsung. I'm sure Samsung is more interested in the consumer audio side of Harman's business - probably looking for the headphone and speaker side of things more than anything. The MI part of the portfolio is probably a tiny slice of the overall pie.

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Nah... He's got a long way to go before that.

 

Honestly, I don't have problems with anyone expressing their opinion here. I think it's great that Line 6 lets these forums be as open as they are.

 

I'd just remind everyone to please respond respectfully, even if they don't agree with something.

 

 

It sure looks like he's working towards being he most negative guy.

If he would at least acknowledge DI's post about what it takes to get these updates done, the tonality of his posts would be taken differently and he, more seriously. Nowhere in his posts does he acquiesce to the fact that the Helix is as good as it is because Line 6 takes the time to get it right and refuse to release an unstable firmware update.  Getting things right takes as long as it takes.

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It sure looks like he's working towards being he most negative guy.

If he would at least acknowledge DI's post about what it takes to get these updates done, the tonality of his posts would be taken differently and he, more seriously. Nowhere in his posts does he acquiesce to the fact that the Helix is as good as it is because Line 6 takes the time to get it right and refuse to release an unstable firmware update.  Getting things right takes as long as it takes.

 

You see that registered products number next to my name. That gives me the ability to ask what I want. I'm not here to brown nose my way into the best buddies category that is for sure. I got the info I needed. We'll revisit the situation next quarter after I have tested the next release.  

8908ed4c064bef60733ef20387437751.jpg

 

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I see. Understanding the realities of what It takes to get things right is "brown nosing".

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I see. Understanding the realities of what It takes to get things right is "brown nosing".

 

You are assuming that I should agree that what he is actually saying is completely the case. I have seen instances where companies only QA test only what is in the user guide and they don't actually test a thousand scenarios and the rest of the time they are working on features that nobody asked for or that won't be ready for 3 quarters thereby causing intermediate releases to be pushed back.

 

They could be working on other products for that matter. It has happened before.

 

But I doubt you work in QA so you could not conceive of these things possibly being a problem. I know a single company that spent 100+ million working on features that were never released multiple times. Full complete builds. But you would not know that. You just want someone to blindly agree to make you feel better.

 

I am also not sure if you noticed that I voted up his post. I actually got the answers I needed from phil_m. And it says so at the top of the thread, does it not?

 

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Obviously asking about any of those topics makes the forum herds salty, since ya'll are generally broken down into a few types. Hence the peanut gallery comment.

 

I'd expect the same retarded responses even without the bold and italics. Because a few of the regulars do not care to ask questions about stuff like that.

 

It makes ya'll just as bad as the spooks at the AxeFX forums. I have actually seen more info flowing on Facebook than I have here. 

 

Telling people to 'sell if you don't like' it is the same as the Republicans asking for everyone to come together after Trump won. It's not going to happen.

 

And from this one post that no one will like comes information that people actually care about. Even if it is outright ignored.

First Blood.

 

You sir are an asshat looking for a fight.

 

And this is not a retarded response either, its the truth. BTW- Thats the same as Republicans saying Trump won so DEAL WITH IT! Thats also not going to happen (which is fine by me) cause your too shocked and butthurt about  L O S I N G !

 

 

I E: adjective

 

1.

causing or suffering loss. 

 

 

And, my numbers is much BIGGER than yours is. Deal with that too. So About Helix- You don't like Helix, thats fine by me. Sell it keep it IDK. Stay, go I don't care, but Im right about what you are. How can I know this? Cause Ive been one longer than you have and it takes one to know one.

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First Blood.

 

You sir are an asshat looking for a fight.

 

And this is not a retarded response either, its the truth. BTW- Thats the same as Republicans saying Trump won so DEAL WITH IT! Thats also not going to happen (which is fine by me) cause your too shocked and butthurt about  L O S I N G !

 

 

I E: adjective

 

1.

causing or suffering loss.

 

 

And, my numbers is much BIGGER than yours is. Deal with that too. So About Helix- You don't like Helix, thats fine by me. Sell it keep it IDK. Stay, go I don't care, but Im right about what you are. How can I know this? Cause Ive been one longer than you have and it takes one to know one.

 

I don't see that your age and your "numbers" automatically qualify you as an asshat.

 

We can't go handing out that title (and the ceremonial hat) to just anyone who claims it, can we?

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First Blood.

 

You sir are an asshat looking for a fight.

 

And this is not a retarded response either, its the truth. BTW- Thats the same as Republicans saying Trump won so DEAL WITH IT! Thats also not going to happen (which is fine by me) cause your too shocked and butthurt about  L O S I N G !

 

 

I E: adjective

 

1.

causing or suffering loss.

 

 

And, my numbers is much BIGGER than yours is. Deal with that too. So About Helix- You don't like Helix, thats fine by me. Sell it keep it IDK. Stay, go I don't care, but Im right about what you are. How can I know this? Cause Ive been one longer than you have and it takes one to know one.

Hahahaha you called the Wahhhmbulance!  Saltiest Nut of the bunch. Good Show! Ya'll are just proving my point, one post at a time.

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Hahahaha you called the Wahhhmbulance!  Saltiest Nut of the bunch. Good Show! Ya'll are just proving my point, one post at a time.

And as far as I can tell the audience for your point (whatever it is) is exactly one person - yourself. Congratulations.

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