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Deneteus

Any more 2016 Helix Updates?

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I like how you say updates have been fairly regular. The Ideascale submissions have looked like a gridlock for the past year. Some of them have been closed and under consideration for a while which is why some people aren't using it. The NAMM update was the largest significant update that came out this year because of the release of the software. You brought up the subject of Quality and far as I can tell no one has complained about quality only what actually got added. What could they add that would cheapen the platform? It's already being cheapened by the lack of updates in general. And I visit the forums quite frequently. You don't have to login to read comments remember. There are alot of people that avoid these forums just because of the way some of the members act. Like they are the only say on any matters Line 6 related. God forgive anyone who would rock the boat with questions they don't care about.

 

All entitled to an opinion but you have to admit that your tone from outset was hostile. I understand that you are frustrated bud but it's just that sometimes there are less confrontational ways of getting things from people

 

Anyways like I said for the last few weeks at least a great chunk of what you were asking has been asked, moaned about, argued over, and answered. If you did spend time on the forum you would know that the majority of users are good folk and that there is plenty of sharing and also that Line6 employees and experts spend time here too.

 

Oh and in terms of cheapening the Helix I was thinking along the lines of gimmicks a la zoom and boss like drum machines.

 

At the very least we all have that we want Helix to be a success and be the best it can be in common. The forum can only get better with more voices and experience so it would be good if you added your tuppence worth to the mix more regularly.

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I don't see that your age and your "numbers" automatically qualify you as an asshat.

 

We can't go handing out that title (and the ceremonial hat) to just anyone who claims it, can we?

Your right... I confess. sigh... Altho I am wiser he is the bigger asshat ...  ;)

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Well hallelujah! At least that's settled. It's been at least a week since a new "WHEN'S IT COMING?!?! WHEN'S IT COMING?!?!?" thread appeared...the other 75 were clearly insufficient. ;)

Except for mine and yours of course...

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You are assuming that I should agree that what he is actually saying is completely the case. I have seen instances where companies only QA test only what is in the user guide and they don't actually test a thousand scenarios and the rest of the time they are working on features that nobody asked for or that won't be ready for 3 quarters thereby causing intermediate releases to be pushed back.

 

They could be working on other products for that matter. It has happened before.

 

But I doubt you work in QA so you could not conceive of these things possibly being a problem. I know a single company that spent 100+ million working on features that were never released multiple times. Full complete builds. But you would not know that. You just want someone to blindly agree to make you feel better.

 

I am also not sure if you noticed that I voted up his post. I actually got the answers I needed from phil_m. And it says so at the top of the thread, does it not?

 

 

You may very well work in QA, but it's clear to me that your concerns are pretty much unfounded in this case.  That may be due to the limits of what you're exposed to in terms of the whole product development and feature prioritization cycle from your view from QA as compared to Program Management, but it's very clear to anyone that bothers to research the release history of the updates that they clearly reflect the high volume voting on features from IdeaScale.  There's also little doubt that (in spite of the 2.0 to 2.1 rapid release to address problems with one of the effects and some minor issues), the testing has been very thorough, particularly given the scope of features in the last release.  These facts all speak to the idea that they are doing several things correctly such as prioritizing based on the most demanded user needs, releasing  products only when testing suggests they're ready, and given the product cycle time involved in these releases, realistic and manageable feature sets on each release.  All of which, by my estimation, suggests a pretty healthy development culture.

 

What you have seen in other companies has little relevance as each company has it's own dynamic when it comes to their corporate culture in product development.  And in my 30+ years of doing this sort of thing and teaching these types of disciplines to corporate america, I can say I'm pretty impressed with what Line 6 has been doing.  Rather than focusing on fears you might have encountered in various other scenarios, I'd advise looking at each company individually and track their metrics before jumping to conclusions or worrying about problems that may or my not exist at Line 6.

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All entitled to an opinion but you have to admit that your tone from outset was hostile. I understand that you are frustrated bud but it's just that sometimes there are less confrontational ways of getting things from people

 

Anyways like I said for the last few weeks at least a great chunk of what you were asking has been asked, moaned about, argued over, and answered. If you did spend time on the forum you would know that the majority of users are good folk and that there is plenty of sharing and also that Line6 employees and experts spend time here too.

 

Oh and in terms of cheapening the Helix I was thinking along the lines of gimmicks a la zoom and boss like drum machines.

 

At the very least we all have that we want Helix to be a success and be the best it can be in common. The forum can only get better with more voices and experience so it would be good if you added your tuppence worth to the mix more regularly.

There are, but they are never quite as much fun. Someone has to play the villain. After reading the post about the mono reverbs and what use they are to anyone I thought might as well ask some hard hitting questions that some of us are already asking. I have actually been here the entire time for years in fact. Lurking. I had to de-register some of the stuff I bought after I sold/lost them. Luckily I own the Zooms, Boss's, Digitechs and all that to compare things to rather than having no opinion whatsoever. 

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Just to weigh in.

 

When it comes to strictly stereo effects... I've resorted to putting a simple mono EQ at the end of the chain.

 

...just to assure myself that what's going into the amp (in this case) is solely mono.

 

It does make an audible difference as I think at that point it merges the stereo feed... but you can then adjust the reverb to taste

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Just to weigh in.

 

When it comes to strictly stereo effects... I've resorted to putting a simple mono EQ at the end of the chain.

 

...just to assure myself that what's going into the amp (in this case) is solely mono.

 

It does make an audible difference as I think at that point it merges the stereo feed... but you can then adjust the reverb to taste

 

It sounds better for sure. I've been testing using one of those Digitech Trio+'s and I had to do that to control the level of bass coming out. I eventually split it out to a PW60. 

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I mean... I take advantage of the available spaces for "blocks", but never wind up filling them all. It's an easy fix but doesn't compromise patch utility at all IMO

 

Some people be Homer Simpson "doh" ing

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Watdafunk! The troll has hi-jacked his own thread with the "Back to Mono" one and taken us on a new helical trajectory! Ye Gods!

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...I'd expect the same retarded responses even without the bold and italics...

...Telling people to 'sell if you don't like' it is the same as the Republicans asking for everyone to come together after Trump won. It's not going to happen...

 

Demeaning comments AND political post all in one. If you had insulted someone's religion you would have had the trifecta...

 

...I have seen instances where companies only QA test only what is in the user guide and they don't actually test a thousand scenarios and the rest of the time they are working on features that nobody asked for or that won't be ready for 3 quarters thereby causing intermediate releases to be pushed back....

 

I (and some others here) are beta testers for Line 6. Only AFTER they've fully tested stuff, they send a firmware update out to us a few days before you find it. Each of us does something different, so what I do when I get a new firmware is create my favorite patch from scratch, using the editor and panel, and sometimes even play it for a show after. We find bugs, sir. And between us all, we may not test thousands of scenarios, but I bet it's in the hundreds...

 

One more thing. It's disrespectful to argue about who is the biggest @$$#@†. Please... and for the record... I am a bigger one than any of y'all...

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As someone who has found himself in the "complainer" category more than once, I can understand the frustrations that Deneteus is exhibiting. I, too, would like more frequent updates and more amps & effects. And while I have found myself being more patient lately, I think we should place the blame for these discussions squarely where it belongs....Fractal!

I think that they have set the standard for this type of fast and frequent update cycle. And quite frankly, I don't know how they are able to pump them out like they do. Maybe, as some have suggested, they are just tweaking existing models and passing them off as "new". But in any event, I sincerely hope that Line 6 continues to support this platform so as to increase its life-cycle beyond the typical 1-2 years of previous products. And if they do come out with a "Helix 2" in three or four years, I'll be on board with that as well.

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As someone who has found himself in the "complainer" category more than once, I can understand the frustrations that Deneteus is exhibiting. I, too, would like more frequent updates and more amps & effects. And while I have found myself being more patient lately, I think we should place the blame for these discussions squarely where it belongs....Fractal!

I think that they have set the standard for this type of fast and frequent update cycle. And quite frankly, I don't know how they are able to pump them out like they do. Maybe, as some have suggested, they are just tweaking existing models and passing them off as "new". But in any event, I sincerely hope that Line 6 continues to support this platform so as to increase its life-cycle beyond the typical 1-2 years of previous products. And if they do come out with a "Helix 2" in three or four years, I'll be on board with that as well.

 

Well Fractal is going to do their thing and Line 6 is going to do theirs... I've got to say, though, if you're comparing the development of the Helix to the AX8, I don't think you can say that Line 6 is behind Fractal as far as updates go. Fractal numbers their updates more aggressively, imo, and gives the impression that they are doing more, perhaps. They also detail out every little thing they change, like "we changed the value of this capacitor in this model". Line 6 has never given that level of detail, but I have no doubt that they do that sort of stuff. I think they just categorize that as "general optimizations and bug fixes". When I look at the number of amp models Fractal has added since the AX8 was introduced, I actually think Line 6 has added more. Fractal of course, started with more, but they're also working on a codebase that they've been using since 2011.

 

Not saying this to necessarily say one is better than the other. If anything, it's always good to have choices. But I don't agree in an objective sense that Line 6 is really behind in any way.

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 I think we should place the blame for these discussions squarely where it belongs....Fractal!

 

I don't see how I can blame the Firestone tires wearing out on my car, compared to the GoodYear tires on my neighbors. He bought his tires, and I bought mine. He fixes his flats even if I don't have any flats at all. I own my tires and he owns his tires. I might buy a set of GoodYears later on, but He doesn't owe me a thing for my Firestones now, and I don't expect him to pay for any of my tire rotations or balancing. I don't care if he can get flats changed sooner or gets free coffee while he waits, as as long as its done right where I go. Two companys, two manufacturers and two different WORLDS> DO I NEED TO USE SMALLER WORDS HERE? It doesn't matter what Fractal does or doesn't do on THIS Helix forum, because most here have a Helix, and not a Axe FX II. When Yamaha buys out Fractal AND Line-6,  then you can point, but till then it doesn't matter what kind of tires my neighbor has on their car!

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I really wasn't being critical. It was just a tongue in cheek way of saying that fractal are sort of responsible for this expectation. I would not part with my Helix for anything that Fractal makes.

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and for the record... I am a bigger one than any of y'all...

 

I CALLED DIBS FIRST!  :P   :lol:

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Well Fractal is going to do their thing and Line 6 is going to do theirs... I've got to say, though, if you're comparing the development of the Helix to the AX8, I don't think you can say that Line 6 is behind Fractal as far as updates go. Fractal numbers their updates more aggressively, imo, and gives the impression that they are doing more, perhaps. They also detail out every little thing they change, like "we changed the value of this capacitor in this model". Line 6 has never given that level of detail, but I have no doubt that they do that sort of stuff. I think they just categorize that as "general optimizations and bug fixes". When I look at the number of amp models Fractal has added since the AX8 was introduced, I actually think Line 6 has added more. Fractal of course, started with more, but they're also working on a codebase that they've been using since 2011.

 

Not saying this to necessarily say one is better than the other. If anything, it's always good to have choices. But I don't agree in an objective sense that Line 6 is really behind in any way.

 

I only partly agree with you. I think more could have been done for the first release. 

 

1. The first Fractal Firmware for the AXEFX was an experiment. It wasn't until the second release when he had more coders to help that it actually took off. I'm giving the guy credit since he kickstarted this market of using IRs. 

2. They are more transparent about issues with the firmware or updates. But they aren't the only ones. Kemper releases their stuff steadily.

3. The AXE FX II fiasco where he told no one about the release and had a couple thousand back orders seemed really shady to me. Pepperidge Farm Remembers!

4. We should have at least had all of the features of the POD HD and M9 when it released. The fact someone had to make an Ideascale post about it is enough. 

5. We should have the same access to the granular settings that the AXE FX has for the advanced users. Sometimes Easy mode is not where its at. I want to be able to make new FX. 

6. I think the release of the FX8 was a joke. I saw more than a few comparisons with the Helix and alot got returned. 

7. I hope 2017 puts us closer to being at the level of functionality of the AxeFX and that we get more FX. I'm not so worried about amp models.  *yet*

8. I forgot to add that Cliff doesn't have a really high Karma rating on any of the forums. And you think I am bad. 

https://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/index.php/Thread/23686-What-do-you-guys-think-of-this-from-Cliff-of-Axe-Fx/

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Love how a large number of customers can be fed up with the flow of updates and yet the regular culprits will be here ready to slam them for expressing their views, in the customer support forum, ready to stroke Line6' shaft and cup certain members balls.

This is a customer support forum, they own the product, they are more than entitled to express they are fed up. If you are sick of seeing people talk about it then it's easy to see that there's reason then to justify the frequency.

"Just sell it then..." How about don't open the thread....?

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Love how a large number of customers can be fed up with the flow of updates...

 

I've got to say that I don't really see this as being the case... I frequent here, TGP, and the Facebook group, and I can't say that I've seen more than a small handful of people actually complaining, yet alone being "fed up". It seems the vast majority of people have been understanding, really.

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...

This is a customer support forum, they own the product, they are more than entitled to express they are fed up....

 

Absolutely right. This is a customer support forum. Customer. Support. Not really intended for Line 6 policy discussions although a lot of that happens here, usually politely when expressed that way in the opening.

 

I think what triggered a negative response in this case is that the OP ignored the nature of this forum in his opening statements, indicating that he only wanted to hear from Line 6 / Yamaha, or from other users who shared his opinion. The rest of us were called the peanut gallery. That's just not how a user support forum works, nor a good way for the OP to get the sort of response he wanted. His opening comments and overall tone ensured that he heard exclusively from those he offended. He didn't just express his views - he insulted regular forum users. And he knew he was doing so . Why else the 'With all due respect....' opening? The result was entirely predictable.

 

He didn't need or want any technical support. He wanted answers from Line 6 to very specific non-technical questions. This isn't the place for that. There's a Contact Us button at the bottom of every page for that.

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There will be a new update, 2.10, coming any day now... So there's that...

 

As far as the frequency of the updates, that is what it is. They have been steadily coming, and they will continue. There are some big plans in the future.

 

As far as Yamaha and Line 6, Yamaha really doesn't get involved with the day to day operations of Line 6, or really much of anything, for that matter. DI has said that Yamaha let them borrow one of their engineers for some of the final parts of Helix' development, but it's not like Yamaha is telling Line 6 how to run the business. Yes, they do own them, but Yamaha has been pretty much hands-off with it subsidiaries in the past, and I don't see any indication that's changing, really.

 

Rest assured there is a lot going on behind the scenes. I know some of it, but of course am bound by an NDA to disclose what I do know. I saw this picture the other day, and I think it applies here. What the public sees as the release is just the tip of the iceberg... There's a lot of hard work being done behind the scenes, and it will be evident as to why in the future.

 

6652d76312fdfe90e52094aa1f9d09d2.jpg

This tip of the iceberg thing is interesting. Like many, I've really been thinking about the future of Helix.

 

I think the dev team cares about support and the community and things like Ideascale. But to me they seem to be driven by more selfish motives. And I mean that in a good way. It seems like since this product was revealed that there has been, and still is some serious passion going on in the L6 offices.  They really seem to be determined to make the best possible product out there. It kinda feels like a lot of the ideas that people come up with are already being experimented with in the lab. They obviously started developing the Helix several years ago with high processor power component modelling in mind. But during that time Fractal and Kemper released their products and of course they're aware of what the other companies have to offer.

 

So, going back to this iceberg thing, I think this version of Helix is actually just the basic platform they are going to be using for their pro-level digital amps and effects. This team seems like they want to be the best out there and "To be the best, you gotta beat the best." I'm guessing that since everyone keeps comparing them to Kemper that they've already been working on a form of profiling. Maybe they'll call something like 'cloning' to go with the Helix branding. Peavey is doing it with Revalver, so I really wouldn't be surprised if L6 is doing it too. Then they'll probably go into component level amp building with a new editor similar to Bias. And maybe make a power head just for peeps who want to take a head and plug into their cabs/monitors.

 

All of these things will take time to get out there but it just seems to me that the guys at Line 6 would love to put out a product that basically closes the discussion and comparisons to all the other digital products because they will have all the features that their competitors have in just one platform.

 

I already think the Helix is fantastic as is and personally wouldn't buy one with speculations of massive updates. Bug fixes, tweaks and a few new models here and there are cool. I have a feeling they're going way beyond that though in the near future.

 

btw, this is just a response to the 'tip of the iceberg' thing. To be clear, this is definitley not a comment or opinion about the OP. 

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Absolutely right. This is a customer support forum. Customer. Support. Not really intended for Line 6 policy discussions although a lot of that happens here, usually politely when expressed that way in the opening.

 

I think what triggered a negative response in this case is that the OP ignored the nature of this forum in his opening statements, indicating that he only wanted to hear from Line 6 / Yamaha, or from other users who shared his opinion. The rest of us were called the peanut gallery. That's just not how a user support forum works, nor a good way for the OP to get the sort of response he wanted. His opening comments and overall tone ensured that he heard exclusively from those he offended. He didn't just express his views - he insulted regular forum users. And he knew he was doing so . Why else the 'With all due respect....' opening? The result was entirely predictable.

 

He didn't need or want any technical support. He wanted answers from Line 6 to very specific non-technical questions. This isn't the place for that. There's a Contact Us button at the bottom of every page for that.

 

You must be part of that gallery. And a reason alot of people hate going to the support forums. Even without the intro I would have gotten flack about what I was asking about because sometimes teachers pets scare people away. I've seen it happen before with the POD X3 release. And asking questions about firmware releases or updates is technical support. And 'this is not the place for that posts' are tantamount to censorship. Same as saying 'don't even post'. I don't think you noticed that my questions were answered. Even the facebook peeps don't like posting on here because of the attitude that already exists even if I hadn't said anything. 

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I've got to say that I don't really see this as being the case... I frequent here, TGP, and the Facebook group, and I can't say that I've seen more than a small handful of people actually complaining, yet alone being "fed up". It seems the vast majority of people have been understanding, really.

 

First of all TGP doesn't like dissenting opinion when it comes to vendors. And on Facebook a thread was started about Helix problems and someone was asked to delete it after a poll was ran. That isn't counting when I was told to delete a post off Facebook in regards to a defect. So I'm not a minority by far. 

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First of all TGP doesn't like dissenting opinion when it comes to vendors. And on Facebook a thread was started about Helix problems and someone was asked to delete it after a poll was ran. That isn't counting when I was told to delete a post off Facebook in regards to a defect. So I'm not a minority by far. 

 

Huh? Yes, you are, trust me... :)

 

But whatever makes you feel better.

 

Seriously, though, I actually think the vast majority of Helix users probably don't care all that much about the frequency of updates, nor is it something they spend a lot of energy worrying about. The number of people who comment here and other forums, and even on Facebook make up a pretty small percentage of the actual user base. The fact that you take time to register for a forum and comments puts you in the minority of users, and I really don't see that the majority of posters here or anywhere are unhappy...

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I've got to say that I don't really see this as being the case... I frequent here, TGP, and the Facebook group, and I can't say that I've seen more than a small handful of people actually complaining, yet alone being "fed up". It seems the vast majority of people have been understanding, really.

It may not be the case that it is in droves, however some members were complaining,in this thread, of it happening all too often. Given their responses to the OP I'm not surprised if blowing things out of proportion is on their cards.

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Even the facebook peeps don't like posting on here because of the attitude that already exists even if I hadn't said anything.

 

What's Hilarious to me is you discussing someone else's attitude issues.

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This is something I see very often on this forum.

 

Somebody speaks their mind (albeit in a not too positive manner) and a bunch of forumers gang up to correct/ silence him.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion guys and girls!

 

So you are happy with the way things are going with the Helix? Fine. Say your bit. Keep being happy.

 

We live in a day/ age where products/ services/ platforms need to continuously improve to retain their customer base. As someone rightly pointed out earlier, Fractal and Kemper are doing this.

 

Line 6 does not:

1. Share their plans for the future

2. Beta test their firmware updates

3. Release regular, timely upgrades

All of which is doing them some harm IMHO.

 

What line 6 has is a much bigger customer base, and a very active forum. Why not use these to get input/ feedback, directly from your customers and try things out with them? The few posts about lack of regular updates are likely the ones being read by prospective buyers and given undue consideration.

 

So far it looks like the same old Line 6 story. One major update a year into release. And the next one, a minor update 9 months down the line? Not very encouraging for those of us who have put their trust in Line 6 (and continue to do so).

 

What I hope we all want, is to be using the world's best modeler, with the best features, and not something that just "works" for a lot of people (with a lot of tweaking :)). Should Line 6 release their plans and timelines towards achieving this, this would then put pressure on them to meet the expectations they define. Which I believe they should be capable of coping with.

 

I hope we can all work to making this a forum where every form of opinion is encouraged. Criticism, appreciation etc., and where Line6 finally opens up to the gold mine on their hands :).

 

Peace!

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Voicing an opinion versus being an arrogant asshat is different and treated as such. Yours Aaron was an opinion, and although I disagree on this time frame being the "same old Line 6", you at least we're civil in the discription. I don't remember having a guy from L6 here discussing sometimes in detail what might be coming before, like DI has. I don't recall an idea scale forum in which we could vote on what was important before. I've been here since before Variax's had alternate tuning, so trust me when I say that the sheer amount of info shared by Line6 today with us the customer base, is not the same old Line 6. Could Line6 do more? Sure. I don't know a company that doesn't have room for improvment. I too have stated that I wanted more info and more fixes faster right here, but that said, we have a lot more info than we ever got before, with a box that sounds just killer compared to what they ever released beforehand. And that is a positive in my book, even if it doesn't go as fast as we'd like at times.

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Voicing an opinion versus being an arrogant asshat is different and treated as such. Yours Aaron was an opinion, and although I disagree on this time frame being the "same old Line 6", you at least we're civil in the discription. I don't remember having a guy from L6 here discussing sometimes in detail what might be coming before, like DI has. I don't recall an idea scale forum in which we could vote on what was important before. I've been here since before Variax's had alternate tuning, so trust me when I say that the sheer amount of info shared by Line6 today with us the customer base, is not the same old Line 6. I too have stated that I wanted more info and more fixes, but that said, we have a lot more info than we ever got before, with a box that sounds just killer compared to what they ever released beforehand. And that is a positive in my book, even if it doesn't go as fast as we'd like at times.

 

Things are looking a bit different yes...but maybe not enough for some...

 

I do believe these changes will have a positive effect on everyone involved...

 

And for the record, Ideascale seems a little dead from the admin POV. Ideas already implemented still exist there. Most other ideas are "Under Review".

 

Again, not too convincing for me personally. But I'm keeping the faith. Both in Line 6 and in my choices. :). 

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From what I can tell the helix has a lot of potential, to add LOTS of new things and new features. As excited as the people at l6 are and I'm sure would love to share I think think it would be easy for them to dig themselves into a hole making promises about things being experimented with and in development. From what I imagine maybe some coding for certain features takes much longer than expected. Maybe other things come together faster than expected and come out sooner.

 

For any business though it's important to manage customer expectation. I think line 6 wants the more impatient of us to know that they are in good hands, that very cool things are in the works. At the same time they can't give out specifics to which they can't make promises.

 

This is my perception of the company and where they're at.

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Huh? Yes, you are, trust me... :)

 

But whatever makes you feel better.

 

Seriously, though, I actually think the vast majority of Helix users probably don't care all that much about the frequency of updates, nor is it something they spend a lot of energy worrying about. The number of people who comment here and other forums, and even on Facebook make up a pretty small percentage of the actual user base. The fact that you take time to register for a forum and comments puts you in the minority of users, and I really don't see that the majority of posters here or anywhere are unhappy...

 

You also aren't taking into account the people that do not like social media, or forums. I've spent enough time in Guitar Center to know that much. I'm not spending alot of time worrying about it. Just enough to put it on a bucket list to let ya'll know that we are here. 

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Things are looking a bit different yes...but maybe not enough for some...

 

I do believe these changes will have a positive effect on everyone involved...

 

And for the record, Ideascale seems a little dead from the admin POV. Ideas already implemented still exist there. Most other ideas are "Under Review".

 

Again, not too convincing for me personally. But I'm keeping the faith. Both in Line 6 and in my choices. :). 

 

Ideascale doesn't just look dead. It looks like its where dreams go to die. 

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What's Hilarious to me is you discussing someone else's attitude issues.

You might not like my approach but it works.

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You may very well work in QA, but it's clear to me that your concerns are pretty much unfounded in this case.  That may be due to the limits of what you're exposed to in terms of the whole product development and feature prioritization cycle from your view from QA as compared to Program Management, but it's very clear to anyone that bothers to research the release history of the updates that they clearly reflect the high volume voting on features from IdeaScale.  There's also little doubt that (in spite of the 2.0 to 2.1 rapid release to address problems with one of the effects and some minor issues), the testing has been very thorough, particularly given the scope of features in the last release.  These facts all speak to the idea that they are doing several things correctly such as prioritizing based on the most demanded user needs, releasing  products only when testing suggests they're ready, and given the product cycle time involved in these releases, realistic and manageable feature sets on each release.  All of which, by my estimation, suggests a pretty healthy development culture.

 

What you have seen in other companies has little relevance as each company has it's own dynamic when it comes to their corporate culture in product development.  And in my 30+ years of doing this sort of thing and teaching these types of disciplines to corporate america, I can say I'm pretty impressed with what Line 6 has been doing.  Rather than focusing on fears you might have encountered in various other scenarios, I'd advise looking at each company individually and track their metrics before jumping to conclusions or worrying about problems that may or my not exist at Line 6.

 

If what I have seen in other companies has little relevance then neither does your 30 years of teaching. Because every snowflake is different right. Well I beg to differ. A passenger on a luxury liner doesn't have to have a degree in engineering in order to identify if a boat is sinking. Companies that don't regularly poll their customers overlook alot of feedback that they won't get through support channels. Sometimes that is intentional in order to keep the Upper Management thumbscrews off of the Dev team. I was a corporate trainer as well and also trained in Six Sigma to identify problems with companies all the way down from the top to the bottom when it comes to business processes and streamlining. The metrics I track led me to my conclusion. The industry they are in isn't that big. No jumping was necessary. I am sure you can go to any Guitar Center or any other music vendor and find the same feedback about their releases if you ask the right questions. When you don't look for problems then you won't find any. I know more than a few people that swore off the Helix because of prior performance with their products. I am actually hoping that Line 6 gets to prove them wrong.

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Line 6 does not:

1. Share their plans for the future

2. Beta test their firmware updates

3. Release regular, timely upgrades

All of which is doing them some harm IMHO.

 

1. is correct. Although they do share SOME things with some folks who are testing their products ahead of time, we don't have a full roadmap.

2. is incorrect. I and others (some in this thread) do indeed beta test their firmware.

3. is incorrect. They may not be regular enough for your tastes, but they are regular.

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Line 6 does not:

1. Share their plans for the future

2. Beta test their firmware updates

3. Release regular, timely upgrades

All of which is doing them some harm IMHO.

 

Why would you write that they don't beta test their updates? Why do they have a bunch of beta testers if they don't beta test?

 

They are certainly releasing regular updates. 1.06 4 months after release added 9 effect along with 3 amp channels. Then they were busy with the editor, then came the massive update which implemented snapshots — and trust me, there's a lot of fractal owners who dream about snapshots, it's much better than scenes, even in their opinion.

 

The problem is we're comparing Helix to products that have been out a LONG time. Fractal has been working on the same software since the standard and ultra days, and back then things didn't have the same pace. And take a look at Kemper. For years people have been asking for new and better effects, and not until now is it being implemented. Compared to the competition, this year has been really effective for Line 6, and this is all the ground work that'll give us a lot in the future, I'm sure.

 

I'm also excited to see updates, but as long as they keep improving it for th next couple of years, I won't complain. And even if there wasn't any more updates after this last one, I wouldn't complain, but ask myself whether I'm satisfied as is or well it and buy something else.

 

And I really don't get the whole transparency thing. I'm glad they don't tell their customers a bunch of things. I like being pleasantly surprised. ;)

 

Oh, and this just my opinion, not trying to silence anybody. I know I don't have that power anyway. :)

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I am not a corporate trainer and I have not worked within a corporate structure for 30+ years. I am a consumer. And as a consumer, I/we have identified that there are certain things that other companies may doing better than Line 6. There are features being offered elsewhere that Line 6 is not. And if that hurts your feelings, too bad. It doesn't mean that I am abandoning Helix. Nor does it mean that I want or need a lame (and not at all relevant) lecture about tires. Helix is great and we only want it to get better. If Line 6 chooses to ignore us, then so be it. But to suggest that a user forum is not the appropriate place to express ourselves and our wishes is tantamount to saying "Just shut up because we know what's best for you". If that's the case, why even HAVE a user forum?

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..... But to suggest that a user forum is not the appropriate place to express ourselves and our wishes is tantamount to saying "Just shut up because we know what's best for you". If that's the case, why even HAVE a user forum?

I didn't say that. I said it's not the place to communicate directly with Line 6, nor to suggest that you don't want to hear from some users. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to express themselves and their wishes. But the way in which those wishes are expressed is important and greatly affects the tone of the subsequent discussion. The opening post in this thread was intentionally inflammatory and the response was in kind.

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