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BoneToner

Big Muff Tone

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Hey Everyone,

 

I was running my Black Russian Big Muff (chicken head knobs) through the effects loop of the helix, as this is a big part of my sound, and was comparing/trying to get a similar tone out of the helix triangle fuzz. I noticed a couple big differences and was hoping some of you might be able to steer me in the right direction. The biggest difference and one that bugged me the most is how much more bottom end and punch the Russian BM had, I attempted at running a compressor and then an EQ(firstly by themselves, then together) before/after the Triangle Fuzz and didn't seem to be able to get it to do what I wanted at all. I also noticed that the sustain on the Russian at about 2 O'clock seemed to be hotter than the Triangle Fuzz at 10. This might be slightly due to the low end loss though.

I tried out my rat in the effects loop against the Vermin Dist and noticed very similar results, losing that low end grit to  it.

 

Just curious if you lovely people have any suggestions for beefing those up!

Thanks in advanced!

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Hey there. Muffs varied so much from model to model and you are comparing two different models! They even varied from unit to unit as they were built with what ever was lying around. I use the Muff a lot on my Gilmour patches and here is what I do. Run the tube driver or other light overdrive pedal into the Muff with the gain set to between 2 and 4 and eq to taste. You can then set the Muff to moderate gain and play with the tone control. I also set the bias and bias x to 10! On its own the Muff sounds 💩. I put up a post a while ago with a custom tone link on to Dog by Pink Floyd, check it out, it uses this technique 😀

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Hey CBTL, Thanks for the response! I will definitely try that out! Haha I'm aware of the variation in muff circuits, I own 3-4 of the variants/clones and they each sound a bit different but have similar results unfortunately. And I am a big fan of the BEEFCAKE!!! haha I have the rack and I know I can run it in an effects loop but I am really hoping to down size and want as little in my rack as possible.

 

The rat/vermin dist has similar results too though so I'm curious if other people are noticing this or if I'm just setting it up incorrectly and need to mess with a combo of pedals/effect blocks

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I just bought a Helix and I've been playing around with those two pedals a lot. I'm a big fan of doom metal, so a Rat and Muff are essential to some of the sounds that I need. I think the biggest thing with the Muff is the lack of gain/sustain that was mentioned and the bump in midrange that makes it blend with the amp more than completely taking over the sound like most Muffs do. I hate to sound like a broken record, but I noticed a much better sound when I uploaded some darker sounding impulses and used it with the Marshall models on the Helix. I could get a good doom sound and also got the J Mascis sound from Bug with a little tweaking and little-to-no-EQ.

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I just bought a Helix and I've been playing around with those two pedals a lot. I'm a big fan of doom metal, so a Rat and Muff are essential to some of the sounds that I need. I think the biggest thing with the Muff is the lack of gain/sustain that was mentioned and the bump in midrange that makes it blend with the amp more than completely taking over the sound like most Muffs do. I hate to sound like a broken record, but I noticed a much better sound when I uploaded some darker sounding impulses and used it with the Marshall models on the Helix. I could get a good doom sound and also got the J Mascis sound from Bug with a little tweaking and little-to-no-EQ.

 

Would love to try some of your patches - I myself love doom/sludge/stoner, and I having quite a challenge getting that sound on direct recording with the Helix. :-)

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Would love to try some of your patches - I myself love doom/sludge/stoner, and I having quite a challenge getting that sound on direct recording with the Helix. :-)

I'm still working out quite a few of them. I may post the ones that I have once I feel completely satisfied with the tone. Between the doom patches and trying to integrate my Throne Torcher (HM-2) into the Helix, I have barely got to play around with the unit as a whole. It's been a fun process.

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Hey CBTL and Thurston9. I tried that out and while it did sound really good, it unfortunately did not fix the problem I am having.

 

 Also it's not that the Triangle fuzz sounds bad though I does sound good it is just not quite Muff-y enough for me. about 75-80% there but that low end just is missing for me.

 

Guess I'll just have to keep mine in my effects loop.

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Hey CBTL and Thurston9. I tried that out and while it did sound really good, it unfortunately did not fix the problem I am having.

 

Also it's not that the Triangle fuzz sounds bad though I does sound good it is just not quite Muff-y enough for me. about 75-80% there but that low end just is missing for me.

 

Guess I'll just have to keep mine in my effects loop.

Ummmm, do you have a big low end cut globally? I have an eq with a low boost on occasion!

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No global cut. Plus I am running my Big muff pedal through one of the effects loops so it would cut that too, right? I have done a low boost EQ post fuzz and tried actually High and/or mid cut too but it doesn't get me any closer unfortunately.

 

Its not that the triangle fuzz sounds bad Its just not the sound I am wanting, or thinking of I guess, when I want a Big Muff. Not quite the amount of wool I want. Tonally it sounds very close and the distortion characteristics are the same it just doesn't have that wool and seems to have a bit less gain.

 

Thanks for all your suggestions though CBTL!

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This thread is weird to me. My actual ancient Big Muff is good for sustainy oooooo sounds, but not for anything resembling a guitar through a cranked up amp, which it sounds like you're after. The Triangle seems to me to be in the same territory roughly. I guess there's a lot of variation in individual units though, and I've only had the one, just thought that's what it does.

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I'm not looking for a cranked amp sound. Just wanted the low end that I'm used to with my Big Muff. I play mostly bass guitar currently in band situations so having that low end is really needed. But I have been testing this exclusively on guitar so I can try to work out what is missing in it.

The tone is there though, the distortion and break up characteristics are pretty much the same. It sounds like a Muff but it's just missing that low end and has about 15% less gain on tap compared to what I am used to

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Apologies for the bogus assumptions, carry on...

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Oh no problem! :) just hoping someone might have run into the same thing I have and figured out a work around. If all else fails I can just run it in the loop

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Might not sound too much like your muff but try messing with the industrial fuzz with an EQ afterwards. I find it to be the most fuzz like fuzz model on Helix

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