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davidb7170

FW 2.10 Expression Pedal Question

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Did a bit of digging into what causes this problem.

 

Seems that individual .hlx presets are stored as plain text scripts.

 

There is an entry for each snapshot designating which pedal is selected which i guess must not have been there before as shown below.

 

"snapshot3" : {

"@ledcolor" : 5,

"@name" : "Lead",

"@pedalstate" : 2,

"@tempo" : 120.0,

 

My guess is that for whatever reason this entry is not added in the import or rebuild process for old presets and Helix doesn't enjoy it when it can't find that entry.

 

Because these files are plain text it would be mega easy to make a standalone translation app to translate .hlx from older firmware to work straight away but it seems that the .hlb and .hls files are compressed so it's not as simple to conform them from older firmwares to the new 2.10 syntax.

 

Anyone know anything about zlib compression and wanna throw me some hints on how to extract and recompress them?

 

 

Looks like JSON format to me  ( one for the coder geeks - but useful to know. there are JSON editors out there ) 

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Looks like JSON format to me  ( one for the coder geeks - but useful to know. there are JSON editors out there ) 

Individual presets are JSON, you're right, it's setlists (and maybe bundles, haven't looked) that are compressed.

 

I wrote I web-based thing to inventory usage of each IR (and each block type too, cause why not), but it only reads preset files because I don't know how to extract ZLIB w the tools I know. I could ask people to export presets, zip them, and upload that, but I thought it wasn't worth it, nobody would care. I wrote it for myself, to know which IR slots I could free up. Really Helix or at least the editor should have that built in.

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Hefonthefjords you arr a GENIUS!! How did you work it out?

I knew straight away how to fix it because it behaves as though there is an external EXP 2 connected when there isn't and I understand how digital systems detect and record the status of hardware so I know that if it's in this state with no cause then it cannot be rectified without presenting it with the requisite state change it needs to record that it should no longer behave in that fashion.

To me it was blatantly obvious but I have a lot of seriously in depth technical knowledge to work from.

 

Individual presets are JSON, you're right, it's setlists (and maybe bundles, haven't looked) that are compressed.

 

I wrote I web-based thing to inventory usage of each IR (and each block type too, cause why not), but it only reads preset files because I don't know how to extract ZLIB w the tools I know. I could ask people to export presets, zip them, and upload that, but I thought it wasn't worth it, nobody would care. I wrote it for myself, to know which IR slots I could free up. Really Helix or at least the editor should have that built in.

There is another thread somewhere on here from 2015 where some folk were working on creating a "patch translator" of sorts to allow importing settings from other devices to helix. One of those guys demonstrated how to decompress the bundles and setlists. They decompress to big JSON files too so it is actually very feasible to make small applications that could correctly convert presets from 2.01 to 2.10 to avoid the EXP problem entirely and to maintain the IR libraries as you describe.

 

Really there is no reason that Helix editor shouldn't be able to manage both presets/setlists/bundles and IRs all in a oner to maintain the preset .hlx together with any IRs used in the preset and load and unload those IRs to their correct slots. The current system is very disorganized.

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Once sgain thank you. Maybe Line 6 should run new updates by you before releasing themðŸ‘😜ðŸ‘😜ðŸ‘

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To bad i did snapshots of all fremen presets and on many moore so now i have to do the cable trick on all of them or wait until Line 6 fix this bug.

I think i wait i had to unplug the cable and plug it in the exp2 and do that for 4 snaps on every preset..

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To bad i did snapshots of all fremen presets and on many moore so now i have to do the cable trick on all of them or wait until Line 6 fix this bug.

I think i wait i had to unplug the cable and plug it in the exp2 and do that for 4 snaps on every preset..

I think if you have Global Settings > Preferences > Snapshot Edits set to Recall, then you only have to save once for the whole preset, instead of having to save each snapshot separately. That's how I'm set up anyway, but if you're not, and you have a lot of this work to do, might be worth temporarily changing it, then putting it back when you're done.

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I think if you have Global Settings > Preferences > Snapshot Edits set to Recall, then you only have to save once for the whole preset, instead of having to save each snapshot separately. That's how I'm set up anyway, but if you're not, and you have a lot of this work to do, might be worth temporarily changing it, then putting it back when you're done.

Yes. I did it with recall method. I put a guitar cord in exp2. Then used some alumfoil on the other end to short it for s moment. Do all snaps then save once.

 

Foil/shorting method prevents plugging/unplugging risks

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Did not work for me. After saving per snapshot on some patches I switched to a different patch that I didn't try the fix on and when I returned to a patch that the fix worked on it reverted back to the problem, so after I rebooted the Helix the fix was restored, but it happens again when I change to a patch with snapshots that I didn't try the fix on, I have to reboot, very frustrating. 

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Yeah I encountered this issue.... It was awesome...

 

It happened at a high end private party our group was playing. So... That was cool! Got booked into a very difficult place to get into this evening. Currently scrambling to fix the issue.

 

We like to bounce from one song to the next. Blend a bunch together. We even plan what we say to the audience.... And here I am lollipopin around with my pedal.

 

Excuse the language... But god damnit get your lollipop together! Jesus christ. How did this get over looked! This is my job and I looked like an lollipop clown last night!!!!

 

Okay time to breath and calm down...

 

Extremely disappointed in the quality control here.

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Lol... Lollipop... Well you took the time to write that code into your forums. Think ya could put the same effort into your product as well?

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I think if you have Global Settings > Preferences > Snapshot Edits set to Recall, then you only have to save once for the whole preset, instead of having to save each snapshot separately. That's how I'm set up anyway, but if you're not, and you have a lot of this work to do, might be worth temporarily changing it, then putting it back when you're done.

It didnt work to change globals i have to save each snapshot

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Yes. I did it with recall method. I put a guitar cord in exp2. Then used some alumfoil on the other end to short it for s moment. Do all snaps then save once.

 

Foil/shorting method prevents plugging/unplugging risks

Thanks for the alumfoil tip it saves lost of time

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Hopefully the L6 Helix programmers are reading this. I hope to provide another clue as to this volume pedal issue.

 

First, after updating to 2.1, I had the issue on all of my re-imported presets. I used the solution noted to fix them all and done.

But at practise yesterday, I was cycling through the bank / Preset / Snapshot options (switches 1 & 7 pressed and held together momentarily) and my pedal display switched from the usual 'EXP 1 EXP 2' to 'EXP 1' centred on the display, identical to how the display looks immediately after the 2.1 update/global reset, etc. So I tried the volume pedal and nothing.

I powered the unit off and then back on a few moments later and the volume issue was back to normal.

 

This is not part of the issue here but during the patch fixing process, I just plugged in a cable to EXP2 and bridged the connection with my fingers to avoid plugging and unplugging.

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Probably user error, but when I change a snapshot, the display above the expression pedal changes from EXP 1 EXP 2 to EXP 1 only and EXP 2 no longer works....

Dave

 

Quick p.s. when I change presets, it stays only EXP 1, have to reboot to get back to EXP 1 EXP 2.

 

 

Hopefully the L6 Helix programmers are reading this. I hope to provide another clue as to this volume pedal issue.

 

First, after updating to 2.1, I had the issue on all of my re-imported presets. I used the solution noted to fix them all and done.

But at practise yesterday, I was cycling through the bank / Preset / Snapshot options (switches 1 & 7 pressed and held together momentarily) and my pedal display switched from the usual 'EXP 1 EXP 2' to 'EXP 1' centred on the display, identical to how the display looks immediately after the 2.1 update/global reset, etc. So I tried the volume pedal and nothing.

I powered the unit off and then back on a few moments later and the volume issue was back to normal.

 

This is not part of the issue here but during the patch fixing process, I just plugged in a cable to EXP2 and bridged the connection with my fingers to avoid plugging and unplugging.

 

Thanks for bringing more attention to this. The volume pedal not working after it starts not displaying properly actually is part of this issue. A bug fix is supposedly on its way in short order. The original post in this topic (see above) mentions the impacted expression pedal function associated with this bug. 

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It didnt work to change globals i have to save each snapshot

 

Not the case for me and I believe others who have tried it, not sure what is going on in your setup. You still have to short each snapshot you intend to step on but you do not have to save each snapshot. As long as your Global Settings > Preferences > 'Snapshot Edits' parameter is set to 'Recall' you can save once per preset.

 

It may be possible you have encountered the following behavior (if not it is still worth mentioning) which can make it look like the fix is not taking. If you switch to a preset that you have not fixed yet, step on a snapshot, and get the bug (only 'EXP 1' showing and volume pedal not working) then unless you fix the current preset, even switching to another fixed preset will still leave your expression pedal scribble strip only showing 'EXP 1'. Once you activate the bug it is 'sticky' for all presets, even ones that have been fixed. For the fixed presets plugging in the cable once and shorting it will restore normal operation, even without a save. Once you get the expression pedal back to normal behavior using the shorting fix then your other fixed presets will behave as well.

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Not the case for me and I believe others who have tried it, not sure what is going on in your setup. You still have to short each snapshot you intend to step on but you do not have to save each snapshot. As long as your Global Settings > Preferences > 'Snapshot Edits' parameter is set to 'Recall' you can save once per preset.

 

It may be possible you have encountered the following behavior (if not it is still worth mentioning) which can make it look like the fix is not taking. If you switch to a preset that you have not fixed yet, step on a snapshot, and get the bug (only 'EXP 1' showing and volume pedal not working) then unless you fix the current preset, even switching to another fixed preset will still leave your expression pedal scribble strip only showing 'EXP 1'. Once you activate the bug it is 'sticky' for all presets, even ones that have been fixed. For the fixed presets plugging in the cable once and shorting it will restore normal operation, even without a save. Once you get the expression pedal back to normal behavior using the shorting fix then your other fixed presets will behave as well.

Ah yes i forgot to set it to recall :) Silly me i am old and dont have a great memory anymore

I noticed that today when i finally had some time to mess with the "fix"

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Hopefully the L6 Helix programmers are reading this. I hope to provide another clue as to this volume pedal issue.

 

First, after updating to 2.1, I had the issue on all of my re-imported presets. I used the solution noted to fix them all and done.

But at practise yesterday, I was cycling through the bank / Preset / Snapshot options (switches 1 & 7 pressed and held together momentarily) and my pedal display switched from the usual 'EXP 1 EXP 2' to 'EXP 1' centred on the display, identical to how the display looks immediately after the 2.1 update/global reset, etc. So I tried the volume pedal and nothing.

I powered the unit off and then back on a few moments later and the volume issue was back to normal.

 

This is not part of the issue here but during the patch fixing process, I just plugged in a cable to EXP2 and bridged the connection with my fingers to avoid plugging and unplugging.

 

I also noticed that a couple of my presets, imported from a previous version, were only displaying "EXP 1" at practice last night. I figured I would come fix them today using the method here, but when I turned the Helix back on to do that, they were all fixed already without me having done anything. So... yay? Not sure why that would happen, but perhaps the shorting trick isn't necessary.

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I also noticed that a couple of my presets, imported from a previous version, were only displaying "EXP 1" at practice last night. I figured I would come fix them today using the method here, but when I turned the Helix back on to do that, they were all fixed already without me having done anything. So... yay? Not sure why that would happen, but perhaps the shorting trick isn't necessary.

 

I know what you mean. I have found some of my restored presets that have not been fixed yet don't display the behavior after a reboot.  They sort of work normally although if I press the snapshots enough times they display the bug. I actually find this more disconcerting then them consistently displaying the bug.

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Hmmm, I gigged with mine last Saturday night, and have been using it quite a bit since doing the fixes to all my prior presets with snapshots. All my JTV presets switch as they should, no abnormal behavior so far. Will keep an eye out for problems, though.

 

Dave

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I know what you mean. I have found some of my restored presets that have not been fixed yet don't display the behavior after a reboot.  They sort of work normally although if I press the snapshots enough times they display the bug. I actually find this more disconcerting then them consistently displaying the bug.

 

 

Hmmm, I gigged with mine last Saturday night, and have been using it quite a bit since doing the fixes to all my prior presets with snapshots. All my JTV presets switch as they should, no abnormal behavior so far. Will keep an eye out for problems, though.

 

Dave

 

My post was referring to restored presets that had not been fixed. Sometimes they work normally for several clicks and then they go buggy. Every preset I have fixed acts normally every time, no problems. I like my bugs to be consistent, if you're gonna break, break reliably...   ;)

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Ahh okay. I have found my fixed ones stay fixed, so... No worries then...

 

Tried out the Archon lead at my gig, quick preset I put close to my 2205 mod preset, and switched to it during a song. Really liked it. I'm not a metal player, but it was very good in comparison, will probably mix it into my preferred presets. Also really like the Litigator for an edgy fender sound. Never specifically heard a Dumble, but if that's what one is, I like it....

 

Dave

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I know what you mean. I have found some of my restored presets that have not been fixed yet don't display the behavior after a reboot.  They sort of work normally although if I press the snapshots enough times they display the bug. I actually find this more disconcerting then them consistently displaying the bug.

 

Not exactly. Every time I have gone to use the Helix since then they have been fixed. I literally did nothing other turn the Helix off at the end of practice (having made no changes to my presets) and then turn it back on the next day in order to fix it (at which point it was already fixed). I checked every preset and all display the normal EXP1/EXP2 text instead of the EXP 1 glitched text.

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Not exactly. Every time I have gone to use the Helix since then they have been fixed. I literally did nothing other turn the Helix off at the end of practice (having made no changes to my presets) and then turn it back on the next day in order to fix it (at which point it was already fixed). I checked every preset and all display the normal EXP1/EXP2 text instead of the EXP 1 glitched text.

 

When you say you checked every preset do you mean you tried all the snapshots? Rebooting will always reset the display back to normal (EXP1/EXP2).  I find simply selecting a restored preset does not invoke the bug so what you are seeing seems to be consistent with that. You can scroll through and select presets and not invoke the bug. I have to start selecting snapshots on a preset that has not had the fix applied for the bug to appear and the scribble strip to get stuck on 'EXP 1'.

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When you say you checked every preset do you mean you tried all the snapshots. Rebooting will always reset the display back to normal (EXP1/EXP2).  I find simply selecting a restored preset does not invoke the bug so what you are seeing seems to be consistent with that. You can scroll through and select presets and not invoke the bug. I have to start selecting snapshots on a preset that has not had the fix applied for the bug to appear and the scribble strip to get stuck on 'EXP 1'.

 

Same here. However, I have also found that if I go to an older preset that has NOT been fixed, go through the snapshots so it is stuck on 'EXP 1', THEN go back to a previously fixed preset and start changing snapshots, it will also get stuck on 'EXP 1'. Strange behaviour.

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When you say you checked every preset do you mean you tried all the snapshots? Rebooting will always reset the display back to normal (EXP1/EXP2).  I find simply selecting a restored preset does not invoke the bug so what you are seeing seems to be consistent with that. You can scroll through and select presets and not invoke the bug. I have to start selecting snapshots on a preset that has not had the fix applied for the bug to appear and the scribble strip to get stuck on 'EXP 1'.

 

Interesting. I was not selecting snapshots because I had not been using them on any of these presets. I find that going to any of the other snapshots doesn't invoke the glitch, only going back to the first one (the only one I had been using) AFTER going to one of the others triggers it. And, actually, I can cycle between all of the other ones as much as I want without triggering it, it's only going back to the first one that does. Odd.

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Please make sure this gets reported to Support, so they have it on their radar for the next upgrade.

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Interesting. I was not selecting snapshots because I had not been using them on any of these presets. I find that going to any of the other snapshots doesn't invoke the glitch, only going back to the first one (the only one I had been using) AFTER going to one of the others triggers it. And, actually, I can cycle between all of the other ones as much as I want without triggering it, it's only going back to the first one that does. Odd.

 

I have seen exactly this same behavior you are describing, but only on presets that have not been fixed using the shorting method.

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The fix just worked while on a given preset for me.  As soon as I applied the fix, went to another preset, and then back to the one I 'fixed'...same EXP1 issue.

 

Line6 folks - this is not a very good first impression!!

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The fix just worked while on a given preset for me.  As soon as I applied the fix, went to another preset, and then back to the one I 'fixed'...same EXP1 issue.

 

Line6 folks - this is not a very good first impression!!

 

Yes, this is the observed behavior right now. Stomping on any 'unfixed' preset and invoking the 'sticky' expression pedal bug will make it look like the fixed presets have reverted to broken as well but but that is not actually the case. As soon as you short the expression pedal and restore normal operation you will notice that you cannot get the bug to appear on your fixed presets. They actually remained fixed. So the long and short of it is, make sure any preset you intend to use a snapshot on is fixed in the 2.10 version or you will have to short it to get all your 'fixed' presets to work properly again.

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OK, this fixed my Helix for a while but tonight it suddenly showed up again after a couple weeks. I hope there's a permanent fix in the near future. This would be a real PITA if it showed up at a gig!

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