Helix works on DT50

[Liejp2]

Hello all,

 

My apologies... I'm a noob!

 

I'm a content owner of a DT5O 212 cab.

 

But now, I'm about to invest more and buy my helix.

But I keep on reading that a helix and a DT are a no-match...

 

Is this true?  I mean Idon't care about the loss of the different topologies of the DT50 once I connected to the Helix.

 

I just want to have all the possibilities and soundings of the helix

 

Someone?

 

Many thanks

Kristof

Belgium

[klangmaler]

Hello & welcome to the forum!

There are already some threads about Helix & DT amps, read this for example:

http://line6.com/support/topic/14267-helix-and-the-dt-amps/

[spikey]

Short Version, Helix is not yet integrated like the HD-500 was in using the DT series amps. But with an extra few tweaks there is a work around or two.

 

We (I) expected that integration to be in the 2.10 patch and it wasn't, as there were too many other "demons" to battle it seems, software wise.

 

I still expect tis to be rectified and we will get full integration like the HD-500. Why? Because we have NOT been told its not gonna happen.

 

 

Yet...  ;)

[klangmaler]

Finally found your and DI's comments here:

http://line6.com/support/topic/23374-dt-series-amp-integration-and-helix-revisited/

[Liejp2]

So basically, what happens if I connect a helix to my dt50?

[spikey]

Depends on what you have. If you have an amp and cab in Helix selected, and u send that to the DT-50 with Line-6 link, which also has a Amp and cab,  it will sound muddy. 

 

 

On the stump...,

 

See, heres a mindset that I just don't understand. When you design, install in and then ship a product from the Line-6 factory with a port on it called "Line-6 Link" , which BTW LOOKs and CONNECTS up using the same XLR type cables as the Line-6 Link ports on the HD series do, you kinda expect it to work, don't ya? 

 

Thats why there is so many freeking questions and posts here like this one. Its confusing as HELL. And Its NOT the users fault!  The port on the BACK is even labeled "L6 Link". I try not to get upset over stuff like this, but this kind of  (for a lack of a better word) asinine engineering fubared worm around thought process of "lets put a port on a product (like our other products) and thennnnn lets tellum it doesnt work cause the software/firmware mumbo jumbo voodoo is all different (which makes you wonder why the port was ever put on there doesnt it?) , is just plain misleading in the first place, not to mention flat assed stupid ... 

 

Sorry for the rant.

 

Off the stump...

[rvroberts]

If you are not totally married to your DT50, sell it and get a decent FRFR box - it will simplify your life and you will hear pretty much exactly what your audience hears - why wouldn't you want that? (Expense not allowed for!!)

[radatats]

The helix works amazingly well with the DT amps.  TBH they are probably the best tube amp option for Helix because they are so configurable.  However, as noted above, they don't fully integrate like the HD500.  L6 link is simply a digital communications protocol that lets two 'computers' talk to each other.  It worked great with the HD500 and DT amps because they all had the same operating system (HD amp modeling).  Helix has a whole new operating system (HX amp modeling) and many more ins/outs and signal paths.  DT has no way to understand what Helix wants it to do.  Yet.  For instance, Helix can have 4 different amps.  Which one does the DT respond to?  Totally different animals.  They are definitely working on it and a fix will come at some point.

 

In the mean time, you can just go straight in to the DT FX return and bypass all the DT stuff.  Or you can use DT Edit to turn off the amp and cab modeling in the DT and use Helix over L6 link.  You can also use midi commands from Helix to configure the DT as needed.

 

I chose to turn off the amp/cab modeling in all 8 voicings.  I set the Channel A ones to Class A, topology I-IV, and Channel B to Class AB, topology I-IV.  I use L6 link and midi to select the channel and voicing I want for a specific amp.  I also use a FRFR rig too.  I'm not selling my DT but then again I wouldn't advise someone to rush out and get one for their Helix either.  But since you already have it, use it!

[spikey]

RV I have a Firehawk 1500 that works well for FRFR. Thats not my issue here. :) And yes Rad I know...,  thanks to you yours and others info on setups. That really helped a lot.

 

I mostly know how to make it work, and even have preset patches made and saved to incorporate the DT-50, a L6-Link, and a midi cable. It sounded fine. My gripe is not the work arounds, but the idea that I should even have to. And  since the frggin L6-Link port is built onto the back of Helix, then Line 6 was surely planning at some point to make it functional, right? Else why even add it? I don't mean disrespect here,  for what we already have. I couldn't make what I have now, and I know it. But this is a bit confusing for lots of new Helix owners and frustrating for lots more including me.

 

 

Sigh, yes I know.... Patience grass whappa....

[radatats]

you need to separate L6 Link and DT integration.  L6 Link allows digital communication, that's all.  It does it's job with the DT, the L series speakers and probably the M20 too.  That is a totally separate idea to the fact that Helix and HD500/DT have completely different architectures.

 

Mac and PC both have functioning USB ports but they can't talk to each other...  Same idea.

 

-   lollipoping edited...

[spikey]

Rad, its not called L6 port. I dont need to separate anything, because they are one in the same port wise and "trademark" name wise. The port on the back of my Helix is labeled "L6Link". L6Link IS DT Intergration, or was until the firmware/software released is not on par with its hardware counterpart on Helix. I didn't call it that name at random or by accident, Line 6 did. If you care to look on the back of any HD-500, its also labeled "L6Link". For a reason. They are one in the same even if Helix doesn't work as its supposed to yet. Check this out- Page 6 of the Helix manual states "L6 Link provides easy digital audio connectivity between Helix and Line 6 StageSource monitors and / or DT-Series amplifiers." Notice how "conveniently" they left out the word "control" here ; ). Sneaky. Why? Because it was defined already years ago, as to what it is and does. See below- This is just me but usually when things are labeled the same, look the same, and are made by the same company, they usually are the same. Thats how I read it. Else they would have called it something else, but didn't. Which then causes the confusion for new users because the ports that called the same thing, are "supposed" to work the same but don't, yet. So no separation is needed, however a fix is.

 

Here is the definition of what Line 6 used to mean when it used the words, L6 Link.  I put this here so we don't lose sight of what it is, what its called, and what its supposed to be able to do. BTW, the L6 Link name, once again,  is "trademarked", and not used lightly to describe their product.

 

Per Line 6,

 

L6 LINKâ„¢ is a powerful proprietary connection developed by Line 6 to enable easy one-cable connectivity between a variety of Line 6 products. It passes both audio and control data via a single cable connection, and the resulting operation allows users to receive many incredible advantages.

Frequently Asked Questions What products use L6 LINK?

Currently POD HD300, HD400 and HD500 guitar multi-effect pedals, and DT50 amplifiers use L6 LINK.

How does it work?

L6 LINK uses a single XLR-type cable to send pristine digital audio in one direction (i.e. from a POD HD500 to a DT50) and control information in two directions (i.e. between a POD HD500 and a DT50).

Can you give me a real-world example?

When you connect a POD HD multi-effect pedal to a DT50 guitar amplifier via L6 LINK, turning a tone knob on one will affect the tone of the other.

Since all “control information†(tone knob settings, amp component settings, etc) pass back and forth between the POD HD and DT50, you can control your rig from your amp or your multi-effect and save those settings to a preset in the POD HD for instant recall.

What kind of cable does L6 LINK use?

L6 LINK works with a standard XLR cable. Because the quality and manufacturing processes of XLR cables vary widely, we can’t guarantee the performance of any particular XLR cable. However, if you are looking for a cable to use with L6 LINK, we recommend the Classic Series Microphone Cable (25 ft.) from Planet Waves, which was among the best we tested.

Why is an L6 LINK connection between a POD HD multi-effect pedal and a DT50 amplifier better than a standard cable connection between the POD HD and any other amp?

• Complete analog and digital switching a single stomp. Selection of a POD HD amp model or preset automatically optimizes the switchable analog circuitry of DT50 amplifiers. You get the best modeling coming through an optimal alignment of Class A or Class A/B operation, biasing method, negative feedback loop topology, Triode/Pentode operation of the power tubes, and more. The stage is set for incredible tone.
• Easy editing and recall. Tweak POD HD presets by turning knobs on the DT50. Then save it on the POD HD for perfect recall every time.
• No ground loops. You’ll never get ground loop hum from an L6 LINK connection!

Are there other ways to connect other than L6 LINK?

All POD® products can connect to amps, recording devices and mixing boards using standard outputs. L6 LINK is an additional option for use with other Line 6 gear.

Can I daisy-chain amps with L6 LINK?

Yes! Connect additional DT50 amps downstream via L6 LINK and the first amp in your chain will automatically be “aware†of the connected amps. Daisy-chain amps in conjunction with a POD HD multi-effect pedal and your effects will route intelligently. (For complete details, see the DT50 Advanced User Guide and the POD HD Advanced User Guide.)

How many DT50 amps can a POD HD300/400/500 support via L6 LINK?

Each POD HD multi-effect pedal can support up to four DT50 amps, but in different ways.

POD HD500 supports four independent channels of audio, all of which can be routed independently to separate DT50 amps. (This makes it possible to create elaborate combinations such as a “wet/dry/wet†rig – one “dry†amp in the center and two “wet†amps left and right with stereo effects.).....

 

And in case you missed it, on the Line 6 Helix area, "Digital IO" page/views on the back, it says this port is called "L6 Link and AES/EBU Out"... Once again, its called L6 Link. 

 

They are one in the same name wise, according to the "trademarked name" used. Even if now they don't act the same. I guess thats legally ok (who knows these days), but for the average Joe who sees the same name on the same ports, its confusing as hell.

[radatats]

holy lollipop, my mistake, L6 Link, you are right.  It's still just a communication protocol, not the actual integration for DT amps.  It is for L series too and does what it's supposed to do.  Just because it's there doesn't mean integration HAS to work.  WTF?

 

I'll correct my error above.  Thanks for pointing it out so lollipoping eloquently...

[spikey]

Just because it's there doesn't mean integration HAS to work.  WTF?

 

You tell me. Would you buy a new car with a AC in it that didn't get cold, like last years model did? Oh and BTW, they were both called  "Cold AIR" air conditioning units and made by the same manufacturer. Looked identical as far as AC units go too...  ;)