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4cm tube preamp -> IR -> FOH?.... YES!


johnonguitar
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So, being the dumbass I am it took a post from a Yamaha representative on another forum for me to realise that running the preamp section of my amp into an IR then direct to FOH would be suitabley not crap enough for most gigs. Especially those where we have to do our own sound. (Which is strange because I used to do this with my Marshall JMP-1 all the time so should have known better!)

 

My current rig is a Helix based pedalboard in 4cm with a Cornford Mk50ii. Although I'm rather fond of the Cornford clean channel I'm not fond of the pain-in-the-butt workarounds for making the Helix channel switch my amp. It has a 6 pin din and although I can make it work I have never found a suitably bomb proof connection or protection for the soldering required.

 

Thus, I have been using the Soldano Clean full amp model for my clean channel in conjunction with the Cornford dirt channel.

 

Last night seen me at a gig where we were having to do our own sound in a very large and very old museum. You can imagine the problems we were having already. It was for some curling Champhips after party so we ended up with several mics set up for speeches etc. and therefore I decided to give the IR -> direct soloution a try for FOH.

 

It worked pretty well. As well as most attempts at stage mic'ing an amp anyway although maybe not enough for me to want to record in this fashion. Thumbs up.

 

Although at one point I turned on my wah and it turned off my IR.... probably only lasted about three seconds before I turned it back off in a minor panic....but this is why we should bug check our patches thoroughly ;)

 

Moral of the story: don't be scared to try giving front of house a direct feed from your preamp via your fav IR. An expensive external load box may not be necessary afterall!

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I am 100% convinced that going direct to FOH is the best solution unless you are in the enviable position of having a bank of amps and switching and a really good soundie who knows your material backwards.  Even then I'd argue that the studio quality sound you can get by doing certain processing after the amp and the cabinet means using an amp is pointless.  So in the same way, I'm 100% for decent FRFR on stage as you get to hear what they hear out front to a very good degree.

I used to use 2 x Vox AC15s in stereo - it was a good sounding rig for the sounds I was wanting.  But out front, I was in the hands of whoever was mixing, and the simple truth is that from feedback I trust, I sound way better now. I've got access to  wider range of sound and I can process it like a studio - and the sound guy just needs to set a level.  And yes, it even sounds better on stage.

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Hi JohnOG,

 

You can probably guess who I am and I also use that method mentioned on the "other" forum by Ross..

 

It works great and the FOH has a constant level from me for every gig - no messing about with mic placement, worrying about knocking said mic, bleed etc etc - it's been a total revelation for me and soundman!!!

 

I now have the freedom to control my own on stage volume for my personal monitoring through the master volume of my amp without affecting FOH - have to be careful obviously that my on stage isn't drowning the FOH but no complaints so far - in fact, the rest of the band have asked if I can turn up a bit on stage - win, win!!!!

 

It also means that I can still run the modelled preamps for the times when I don't want the "real" preamp for different tones (Vox sounds mainly).

 

This feature alone IMO sets the Helix apart from the Fr@ct@l units and just shows how much thought went into this product!!

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Hi JohnOG,

 

You can probably guess who I am and I also use that method mentioned on the "other" forum by Ross..

 

It works great and the FOH has a constant level from me for every gig - no messing about with mic placement, worrying about knocking said mic, bleed etc etc - it's been a total revelation for me and soundman!!!

 

I now have the freedom to control my own on stage volume for my personal monitoring through the master volume of my amp without affecting FOH - have to be careful obviously that my on stage isn't drowning the FOH but no complaints so far - in fact, the rest of the band have asked if I can turn up a bit on stage - win, win!!!!

 

It also means that I can still run the modelled preamps for the times when I don't want the "real" preamp for different tones (Vox sounds mainly).

 

This feature alone IMO sets the Helix apart from the Fr@ct@l units and just shows how much thought went into this product!!

Lol hey there, your cunning disguise didn't fool me!

 

I had always planned to add a Fryette Power Station to my rig. Mainly to attenuate my amp back into Helix for FOH. Also for an ever present back up and possible stereo shennanigans

 

However, after seeing what results can be achieved by simply running my preamp into an IR I'm not so sure. They have gotten considerably more expensive and I'm not sure what I will get in added benefit will be a worthy return for my money

 

However I do need a back up and not sure if there's anything more suitable and portable. Could probably get a really fun amp for that sort of money. V30 or something.

 

Ahh first world problems

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Lol hey there, your cunning disguise didn't fool me!

 

I had always planned to add a Fryette Power Station to my rig. Mainly to attenuate my amp back into Helix for FOH. Also for an ever present back up and possible stereo shennanigans

 

However, after seeing what results can be achieved by simply running my preamp into an IR I'm not so sure. They have gotten considerably more expensive and I'm not sure what I will get in added benefit will be a worthy return for my money

 

However I do need a back up and not sure if there's anything more suitable and portable. Could probably get a really fun amp for that sort of money. V30 or something.

 

Ahh first world problems

 

Surely Helix into FOH is the backup? It is for me anyway.

 

I've done circa 20 gigs using the preamp to IR thing and I can't see me needing anything else

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Surely Helix into FOH is the backup? It is for me anyway.

 

I've done circa 20 gigs using the preamp to IR thing and I can't see me needing anything else

Well... yeah lol. If I'm being sensible but I always feel a little exposed not having a backup that actually makes its own noise if you know what I mean?

 

I have a Cube 60 that I use for jazz gigs but it's not really suitable for anything else.

 

My backline at the moment is:

 

Cornford Mk50ii

Cornford 1x12 open back

Cornford 2x12 closed back

Helix Pedal Board

Tech 21 Fly Rig

 

 

A wee Fryette Power Station in the mix gives me a lot of options with that lot

 

 

And if all else fails I still have my trusty Zoom MS-50g to fall back on. Played more than a few gigs direct with that little guy!

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