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In-Ears from Helix live

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Does anyone use in ear headphones straight from the Helix as a "monitor" for live performances?


 


I run through an L2t and would prefer the higher angle using the supports that pop out but opt for the the lower angle using the handle for better projection live. It can be a little tough to hear so I was thinking of buying some in ears. This would also help protect my hearing from the drummer and such.


 


Just curious if anyone has tried this and if it's a workable solution for a loud live situation.


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I use in-ears. The feed is from FOH, not direct from the Helix. The frequency response is somewhat limited - particularly the low end - but they do a great job of noise reduction.

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I personally wouldn't suggest monitoring a single source via in-ears. It makes it hard to hear everything else on stage and you'll end up volume-fighting between your self-monitored signal and the rest of your stage monitor signal. If you want to have your own "mix" get a IEM set with a dual-input transmitter that allows you to mix the two inputs on the device. You can get a monitor feed from FOH and then mix in the guitar level to where you want it and you'll have a much more enjoyable experience. 

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I personally wouldn't suggest monitoring a single source via in-ears. It makes it hard to hear everything else on stage and you'll end up volume-fighting between your self-monitored signal and the rest of your stage monitor signal. If you want to have your own "mix" get a IEM set with a dual-input transmitter that allows you to mix the two inputs on the device. You can get a monitor feed from FOH and then mix in the guitar level to where you want it and you'll have a much more enjoyable experience.

 

Totally agree!

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I use a stereo wirless in ear system that runs off of the auxiliarry bus system on an X18 Air console.  This allows me to customise my in ear mix so I can ear the rest of the band.  We built up an in ear monitoring system that we both rehearse and play live with since we kept running into clubs with variable quality and quantity of monitors.  When used in conjunction with a behringer 4 channel head[hone amplifier and split snake this allow 4 custom monitor mixes for each musician regardless of what the front of the house is doing.  We just allow the front of the house to tap into our split snake to get Keyboards and guitar signal and get direct feed of the Vocals without our onstage mixer affecting anything other than our personal monitor mix.  We also rehearse with this system and it can be accessed via wi-fi from a cell phone so if anybody needs to goose their personal mix they can do it on the fly.

 

Believe me the effort in designing this system was well worth it and only set us back 700.00 bucks.  The Behringer X AIR also serves as our computer recording interface and allows us to have multitracking rehearsals and acts as a main mixer if we have to supplay PA etc.

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The issue is in this band, none of us are going through the PA other than vocals. My thought was I could get just enough of the guitar using the separate "phones" volume to make sure I'm playing the note I think I am on louder songs. :)

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In my experience running our own IEM setup the last few years, the only time IEM's work with one person using them is when its the drummer running clicks. Otherwise you're popping them in/out to converse with bandmates and you're generally disconnected from the room. Why not put your speaker on a stand, or if you really want it in monitor position, grab one of those combo amp stands. 

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Why not just pole mount the L2T?  It will still project to the audience and get it up where you can hear it?

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I use a stereo wirless in ear system that runs off of the auxiliarry bus system on an X18 Air console.  This allows me to customise my in ear mix so I can ear the rest of the band.  We built up an in ear monitoring system that we both rehearse and play live with since we kept running into clubs with variable quality and quantity of monitors.  When used in conjunction with a behringer 4 channel head[hone amplifier and split snake this allow 4 custom monitor mixes for each musician regardless of what the front of the house is doing.  We just allow the front of the house to tap into our split snake to get Keyboards and guitar signal and get direct feed of the Vocals without our onstage mixer affecting anything other than our personal monitor mix.  We also rehearse with this system and it can be accessed via wi-fi from a cell phone so if anybody needs to goose their personal mix they can do it on the fly.

 

Believe me the effort in designing this system was well worth it and only set us back 700.00 bucks.  The Behringer X AIR also serves as our computer recording interface and allows us to have multitracking rehearsals and acts as a main mixer if we have to supplay PA etc.

Which headphone amp do you use?

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Why not just pole mount the L2T?  It will still project to the audience and get it up where you can hear it?

I do have an amp stand but gave it to the other guitar player when I got the L2T. However, the pole option kind of sounds amazing. Great idea.

 

I will figure something out. Thanks for all the input everyone. I thought the phones would be a decent idea but I'm glad I checked.

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I use a stereo wirless in ear system that runs off of the auxiliarry bus system on an X18 Air console.  This allows me to customise my in ear mix so I can ear the rest of the band.  We built up an in ear monitoring system that we both rehearse and play live with since we kept running into clubs with variable quality and quantity of monitors.  When used in conjunction with a behringer 4 channel head[hone amplifier and split snake this allow 4 custom monitor mixes for each musician regardless of what the front of the house is doing.  We just allow the front of the house to tap into our split snake to get Keyboards and guitar signal and get direct feed of the Vocals without our onstage mixer affecting anything other than our personal monitor mix.  We also rehearse with this system and it can be accessed via wi-fi from a cell phone so if anybody needs to goose their personal mix they can do it on the fly.

 

Believe me the effort in designing this system was well worth it and only set us back 700.00 bucks.  The Behringer X AIR also serves as our computer recording interface and allows us to have multitracking rehearsals and acts as a main mixer if we have to supplay PA etc.

 

What wireless IEM's do you use?  

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Hey Leftzilla - your posting really interests me.  I also use the Audio Technica M2  into my Westone UM10 ear phones. I know it's not the right way to do it, but I take a signal direct from the Helix 1/4" output to the input of my M2. From there it's wireless to my in-ears (XLR goes to PA and side wash for band to hear my guitar).  It's not ideal, however, it's the best option right now. Each gig has different sound engineers, different PA's, different amps. I got tired of hearing the horrible sound from most wedges. Also got tired attempting a good stage balance due to 2nd guitar, bass, synth, drums, vocals.  If we are not headlining, then it's difficult to get the sound to match whatever happened at soundcheck and it's back to turning up up up. Also, on some bigger stages, once I leave my side and play next to other guitarist - my volume in his wedges is a lot lower so I can barely hear what I'm playing unless I'm using IEM.

 

That,  and trying to save my hearing makes me accept the lower fidelity (doesn't sound as full with IEM). I can hear bandmates in-between songs, but not during a song. If, for example, I'm really screwing up a song by playing a 1/2 step off....well then....that's how it goes! :huh:  I can hear the other instruments well enough to not get lost. During solos, I pay a lot more attention to the drummer. 

 

For my next shows I will try using the headphone output and connect a small mic to the aux-in of the wireless receiver on my belt to mix in some outside sounds. I am considering buying some better earphones with 3 or more drivers for a fuller sound.

 

I would love to hear some comments by other IEM/Helix users.

 

Cheers,

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I use a stereo wirless in ear system that runs off of the auxiliarry bus system on an X18 Air console.  This allows me to customise my in ear mix so I can ear the rest of the band.  We built up an in ear monitoring system that we both rehearse and play live with since we kept running into clubs with variable quality and quantity of monitors.  When used in conjunction with a behringer 4 channel head[hone amplifier and split snake this allow 4 custom monitor mixes for each musician regardless of what the front of the house is doing.  We just allow the front of the house to tap into our split snake to get Keyboards and guitar signal and get direct feed of the Vocals without our onstage mixer affecting anything other than our personal monitor mix.  We also rehearse with this system and it can be accessed via wi-fi from a cell phone so if anybody needs to goose their personal mix they can do it on the fly.

 

Believe me the effort in designing this system was well worth it and only set us back 700.00 bucks.  The Behringer X AIR also serves as our computer recording interface and allows us to have multitracking rehearsals and acts as a main mixer if we have to supplay PA etc.

Sorry, off the Helix subject here - We use the X18 Air as well but use the 6 bus outs for in-ear monitors 'cause we can each control the bus mix.  Only issue we have is distortion and drop out when the whole mix is in full swing (on-board compression I believe).  Although the recording quality in great!  Anyway, wondering if you dealt with any distortion issues monitoring wise - any insight?

 

I have though about taking the X18 mix and remixing my Helix separately into my in-ears, or going right mix, left Helix b/c the bus-outs can sound like mush with a 6 pc band.

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Sorry, off the Helix subject here - We use the X18 Air as well but use the 6 bus outs for in-ear monitors 'cause we can each control the bus mix.  Only issue we have is distortion and drop out when the whole mix is in full swing (on-board compression I believe).  Although the recording quality in great!  Anyway, wondering if you dealt with any distortion issues monitoring wise - any insight?

 

I have though about taking the X18 mix and remixing my Helix separately into my in-ears, or going right mix, left Helix b/c the bus-outs can sound like mush with a 6 pc band.

At the moment we are only running vocals,keyboards, guitar (HELIX) and bass, no drums since we can hear them acoustically but at a lower level (as in save our ears)  I am also the sound guy for the band when we run our own PA so I usually monitor the full mix.  We send the buses to a headphone amp and then out to each musicians headphones.  Since I have signal amplifiers on the headphones and then more signal amperage on the my personal IEM we have not yet run in to the distortion or compression problem that you describe

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Hey Leftzilla - your posting really interests me.  I also use the Audio Technica M2  into my Westone UM10 ear phones. I know it's not the right way to do it, but I take a signal direct from the Helix 1/4" output to the input of my M2. From there it's wireless to my in-ears (XLR goes to PA and side wash for band to hear my guitar).  It's not ideal, however, it's the best option right now. Each gig has different sound engineers, different PA's, different amps. I got tired of hearing the horrible sound from most wedges. Also got tired attempting a good stage balance due to 2nd guitar, bass, synth, drums, vocals.  If we are not headlining, then it's difficult to get the sound to match whatever happened at soundcheck and it's back to turning up up up. Also, on some bigger stages, once I leave my side and play next to other guitarist - my volume in his wedges is a lot lower so I can barely hear what I'm playing unless I'm using IEM.

 

That,  and trying to save my hearing makes me accept the lower fidelity (doesn't sound as full with IEM). I can hear bandmates in-between songs, but not during a song. If, for example, I'm really screwing up a song by playing a 1/2 step off....well then....that's how it goes! :huh:  I can hear the other instruments well enough to not get lost. During solos, I pay a lot more attention to the drummer. 

 

For my next shows I will try using the headphone output and connect a small mic to the aux-in of the wireless receiver on my belt to mix in some outside sounds. I am considering buying some better earphones with 3 or more drivers for a fuller sound.

 

I would love to hear some comments by other IEM/Helix users.

 

Cheers,

Scatto,

the key to how I run our system is that I have access to a mixer onstage.  This is from years in an 80s cover band where played a lot of places where we had to bring the sound system and mix from stage so I had access and at that point was monitoring everyhting coming out of the board.  There is a way to set the M2 receiver so that you can send two signals into it such as the Helix and the full band mix.  The beauty of this is that you will get a mono signal in your ears but can boost the Helix over the main mix by adjusting the pan on the receiver itself.  SO your idea of the wearing a mike and feeding it to the one side of the other of the M2 might work very well.

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Been running IEMs for years, I think I'm wearing them in my avatar. Once you get used to it they're great. Definitely recommend a digital rack mixer and split snake you can bring with you to shows so you have control of your mix and can hear everyone else in your mix.

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Thanks. Will see how it goes.

 

Guitar sounds acceptable thru IEM when I'm setting everything up in the rehearsal space, but when the whole band kicks in - all is a mess. Our stage volume is just too loud (yes, I'm getting older - and wiser I hope), but I'm the only one that seems to have an issue with it. The whole "Lower stage volume = Better mixes" idea is lost.

 

Regards,

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Low stage volume needs buy-in from the whole band. Depending on the type(s) of music you play and what "low" means, it may be particularly hard for the drummer, unless they use an all-electronic kit.

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I have run in-ears directly off the Helix. It works pretty well. If everyone else has stage volume, then there's not much reason to put anything else in your ears, honestly, as you can turn yourself up and down to compensate. But if you want to, I have used a path to run a mic into the mic in on the Helix and send it only to my ears for a more natural balance. I have moved away from that so that I have full DSP for guitar and am instead using a small mixer that can take a stereo feed from the Helix and a mic in (or line in) for monitoring everyone else. For one of my bands, we use our own X32, so I can run a feed from the mixer, but for the other band, direct from the Helix and maybe the mic in is what I always use and it works well.

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Ive used in-ears quite a bit but never directly from Helix. As was already pointed out, you can't hear the entire mix that way. And just like the monitors, the better the in-ears, the better you hear things. Also, the better they seal in your ear, the better bass response will sound. Fitted ear moldings work the best but can be pretty pricey!

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I have run in-ears directly off the Helix. It works pretty well. If everyone else has stage volume, then there's not much reason to put anything else in your ears, honestly, as you can turn yourself up and down to compensate. But if you want to, I have used a path to run a mic into the mic in on the Helix and send it only to my ears for a more natural balance. I have moved away from that so that I have full DSP for guitar and am instead using a small mixer that can take a stereo feed from the Helix and a mic in (or line in) for monitoring everyone else. For one of my bands, we use our own X32, so I can run a feed from the mixer, but for the other band, direct from the Helix and maybe the mic in is what I always use and it works well.

This is what I was thinking. Good to hear it works. I'm not looking for a perfect mix. Just a little extra of myself (and maybe help preserve my eardrums in the process).

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I just ordered the Westone UM Pro 30.  Next show is on 12/28. I will post the results.

 

Cheers

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I do it much like Burg11941 above, bringing the band mix in on the FX return, where I also drop an LA Studio Comp and a Simple EQ into that path to tweek the sound and level of the band mix - but from there I rout the band mix to a dead end (Digital Output) so that it does not appear on the 1/4" or XLR outs but will still be present on the Headphone out (Multi), where it goes to my ears.

This way I can get either mono or stereo band mix (using 1 or 2 Returns), and FOH can receive either 1/4" or XLR in mono or stereo with me being able to adjust the overall level of the FOH send (Volume knob) and my IEM level (Headphone knob).

 

The bottom-row split is where I bring in the band mix (sent to Digital while my guitar path is sent to Multi). This is a rearrangement of the ISS Flyby patch to bring in the band mix.

post-753639-0-68973700-1482533175_thumb.jpg

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I do it much like Burg11941 above, bringing the band mix in on the FX return, where I also drop an LA Studio Comp and a Simple EQ into that path to tweek the sound and level of the band mix - but from there I rout the band mix to a dead end (Digital Output) so that it does not appear on the 1/4" or XLR outs but will still be present on the Headphone out (Multi), where it goes to my ears.

This way I can get either mono or stereo band mix (using 1 or 2 Returns), and FOH can receive either 1/4" or XLR in mono or stereo with me being able to adjust the overall level of the FOH send (Volume knob) and my IEM level (Headphone knob).

 

The bottom-row split is where I bring in the band mix (sent to Digital while my guitar path is sent to Multi). This is a rearrangement of the ISS Flyby patch to bring in the band mix.

attachicon.gifHelix_IEMrouting.jpg

Excellent! And, thanks for posting the image showing your routing.

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Just wanted to input here:

 

8 member band

1 drummer on SD running thru mac, 1 bass on line 6 x3 live , two guitars on line 6 one on helix, one on HD500x, and one lead vocals 3 backups.    presounis RMA16, 4 Galaxy 1900S stereo 8 beltpacks.

 

no onstage speakers.  all 8 members using iphones and ipads  everyone can control their own personal mix in IEM, front of house easy mixing, no other sound to compete with.  done by assigning each member a left or right mix on their system. front of house is recorded each service and sound like studio recordings. I love my Helix...... :)  Line 6 you Rock!!

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On 12/23/2016 at 6:47 PM, erikbojerik said:

I do it much like Burg11941 above, bringing the band mix in on the FX return, where I also drop an LA Studio Comp and a Simple EQ into that path to tweek the sound and level of the band mix - but from there I rout the band mix to a dead end (Digital Output) so that it does not appear on the 1/4" or XLR outs but will still be present on the Headphone out (Multi), where it goes to my ears.

This way I can get either mono or stereo band mix (using 1 or 2 Returns), and FOH can receive either 1/4" or XLR in mono or stereo with me being able to adjust the overall level of the FOH send (Volume knob) and my IEM level (Headphone knob).

 

The bottom-row split is where I bring in the band mix (sent to Digital while my guitar path is sent to Multi). This is a rearrangement of the ISS Flyby patch to bring in the band mix.

post-753639-0-68973700-1482533175_thumb.jpg

This looks like a great idea.   Thinking of giving it a try.  

 

Anyone else have any thoughts about setting up Helix to use with IEMs? 

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I usually use IEMs and have my own mix from the PA. I do this in part because I really need to control the volume or I have lots of problems with my old and damaged ears.

 

Recently however, the band played an out-door event with a vendor provided PA that couldn’t support our IEMs. I sent Helix to FOH using the XLR outputs, and used the Helix 1/4” outputs to feed my on-stage FRFR, a pair of JBL EON610s. My monitoring solution was to use my IEMs as ear plugs to protect my ears, and take a stereo feed off the EON610 outputs to my P2 headphone amp. I turned the volume on the P2 up so I could just bearly hear my guitar in my ears, just putting back a little of the high end lost from using the IEMs as ear plugs. 

 

This is by no means ideal. But it actually worked pretty well. I personally don’t need to hear a lot of vocals to do my lead vocals and harmonies. The bleed from the monitors and hearing my voice in my own head with ear plugs is fine. It takes a little getting use to, but I’ll live with that over loosing my hearing.

 

So my point is that sometimes things that aren’t ideal can work pretty well. Don’t be afraid to try things and compromise. But most importantly, protect your hearing, you might need.

 

 

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If you're doing IEM just for you and your guitar, you're gonna have a bad time, most likely. In order to avoid being isolated from the rest of the group you'll need earphones that let in some room sound, which means you'll have to run them louder to get the guitar mix you want, kind of negating a large reason for IEMs in the first place. If you insist on trying it, I'd get a small mixer and run two stage mics along with your guitar signal and balance your signal with the rest of the band in the IEMs. Otherwise, maybe talk with your bandmates and see if they would ALL be interested in better monitoring and go the XR18 route, then you can run six individual monitor mixes to IEMs OR floor monitors depending on what everyone wants, and everyone can dial in their individual mixes with a smartphone. That's how we've been doing it for the last few years and it has made our lives SO much easier. We stick one OH condenser on the drum kit for a little room sound, then everyone goes into the mixer. It helps with us that everyone is running direct to FOH so we don't need a split snake, but it's really nice sound checking and not having to point up/down at the sound guy trying to dial in monitors, just slide a fader on my phone.

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