using an amp block mixed with real amp

[pete1975]

ok,so i have an idea to use my dual rectifier amp with 4cm and also run an amp model in the helix, say the pv panama and then have that signal mixed into the return of my dual rectifier amp (not input) thus getting my real amp sound mixed with a second amp.

 

so in theory my dual rec fx return will receive the pre-amp signal from the dual rec as normal and also the pv panama signal from the helix that i can blend to taste.

 

any thoughts on this?

 

anyone tried it?is it worth doing?

 

i could in theory just use 2 amps in the helix and send them straight to my mesa fx return(power amp section) but i feel im not utilising the mesa for what its worth lol

[SymphonicDischord]

That does sound pretty interesting and I'm kinda curious to try it with my H&K TM36 now. I think to set it up properly though you would have to run 2 separate paths, one with the Helix and the other with the FX loop block for your Mesa pre both feeding to the same output. That way it should avoid you feeding one preamp into the other before it's fed to the Mesa's poweramp and cab.

[DunedinDragon]

Sounds like "much ado about nothing"....what's the point?  Just to see if you can do it?  It doesn't sound all that practical to me given how easy it is to mix two different amp models within a preset.

[FlyingsCool]

Yes, several people have done it.  If it sounds interesting to you, you should try it...

Somebody was just talking about it the other day.  Somebody else is branching his signal off before the amp into his amp, and then running into a helix amp and running that to an FRFR... He really likes it, kind of the best of both worlds of that amp in the room sound, but the crystal clear post amp effects running through the FRFR.  Just another idea....

[HonestOpinion]

ok,so i have an idea to use my dual rectifier amp with 4cm and also run an amp model in the helix, say the pv panama and then have that signal mixed into the return of my dual rectifier amp (not input) thus getting my real amp sound mixed with a second amp.

 

so in theory my dual rec fx return will receive the pre-amp signal from the dual rec as normal and also the pv panama signal from the helix that i can blend to taste.

 

any thoughts on this?

 

anyone tried it?is it worth doing?

 

i could in theory just use 2 amps in the helix and send them straight to my mesa fx return(power amp section) but i feel im not utilising the mesa for what its worth lol

 

Kind of a cool idea. Essentially using the power amp section of your guitar amp to amplify not just the Helix's effects and the signal from the guitar amp's preamp but also adding in essence a second modeled preamp (amp/cab) from the Helix. The difference in your scenario being that the Helix's amp model would not be colored the way it would if you fed it through the guitar amp's input jack which would then process it through the preamp section of the guitar amp. I wouldn't be surprised if there are good sounds to be had there if executed properly. I wonder if you will run into any phase cancellation issues due to the Helix's modeled amp/cab being out of phase with the signal from your guitar amp's preamp due to the two signals hitting the power amp section of your guitar amp at slightly different times.

[pete1975]

i inda like the idea of having 2 amps,my mesa has incredible crunch and low end but maybe lacks a sweet midrange maybe a marshall has or the bit a 5150 has,i could use the mesa for the bulk of the sound and dial in a 2nd amp for characters missing from the mesa,it also saves lugging 2 amps about!!!!

[pete1975]

also i could using a simple delay delay the model signal by the smallest amount to cover phase issues plus making it wider sounding too!!

[pete1975]

Sounds like "much ado about nothing"....what's the point?  Just to see if you can do it?  It doesn't sound all that practical to me given how easy it is to mix two different amp models within a preset.

yeh true it easy to mix 2 models within the helix but im kinda still hanging onto my lovely valve amp thru a 4x12 cab lol.

[HonestOpinion]

also i could using a simple delay delay the model signal by the smallest amount to cover phase issues plus making it wider sounding too!!

 

Even if there is a slight delay between the two signals of less than say 30-35ms (5-15ms would be better) it may actually thicken up your sound. Although it is most effective when one signal is panned right and the other left, a trick that is often used in the studio to thicken up an instrument's sound is to double a track with the second track slightly delayed, up to a max of about 30ms or thereabouts or it starts to sound like a perceptible echo and you are in danger of some degree of phase cancellation. Another way this is executed is to double the track and nudge the second track a bit right so it is playing ever so slightly, just a few milliseconds, behind the first track. In essence you might be doing this by introducing two signals to your power-amp that are just slightly out of time with each other. I could see this potentially providing some extra 'thickness' to your sound without causing any perceptible phase cancellation.

 

Note: It occurs to me that this studio thickening trick could also be use by people in standard setups who are for instance using a separate path for a second cab or whatever by inserting a delay block with a setting of 5-15ms on the second path. I will have to give it a try.

[MusicLaw]

Pan Shift and Delay is one of the best and oldest tricks to thicken the recipe! Works almost as good as flour. ;)

[pete1975]

Just tried this and simple delay has minimum delay of 80ms and it sounds slap backy,tried with reverb as the pre delay goes down to 10ms i think,it kinda worked but not overly great as im not splitting the 2 amps left and right (for live) but for recordingit would work like that,but tbh i would prob just do it in the daw.