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iamgeorge

A question, or idea about ‘improving’ this forum.. FRFR & valve amp..

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Howdy all,

 

_Apologies moderators if this is in the wrong forum.. figured it might get a few more hits if it’s in the main forum_..

 

Having been part of the Fractal Forum (however no longer because I’m a loud and proud HELIX user J), and Kemper Forum, and now the Line 6 Helix forum, I’ve noticed that in particular here in the Helix forum, there’s a huge amount of FRFR discussions, but there’s minimal discussions about players that don’t necessarily use FRFR.  This could quite easily be because the bigger majority of players in this Line 6 forum ARE mainly FRFR users/players.  This isn’t an anti-FRFR topic or discussion, it’s more about expanding on this forum and perhaps growing the capabilities of the Helix and sharing wins/strategies/tones etc etc.  On the Fractal and Kemper forums, there are many discussions about FRFR, but there’s also a lot of discussions and banter about power amps + cabs + Kemper or Axe FX, _not just FRFR_.

 

Is it worth having a forum or chat room for the players that mainly use their Helix rig in a non-FRFR situation?  It’s all well and good to download and trade patches with one another that are FRFR; however from what I can ascertain on this forum, at least 90% of all things discussed is FRFR based, with not a lot of input on power amp + cab + Helix and so forth.  Again, having owned and played all 3 modellers, I personally keep resorting back to a valve power amp + cab + Helix because that not only works for me, but the band that I play in as well.  FRFR is the perfect bedroom solution (which a majority of us forum’ites are, presumably), however, I just think it’d be good to have a place to chat, trade ideas etc that are not always FRFR based..

 

Food for thought I guess.. 

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Hi iamgeorge,

I think that in the Kemper and Fractal sites, (I could be wrong as I'm not on them) there is a lot more discussion about amps and cabs because of the timing of the release of their products.  They were ahead of the Helix.

I personally think that the future of all these devices is FRFR - obviously you don't.  

Knowing a Fractal guy, he bought a good power amp and a suitable speaker setup because that was the way people saw you could implement the thing in a live situation, but in the studio they were going direct into the desk.

Then I think people started to think to themselves that the sound they could tailor so well in the studio was the sound they wanted live.  That's what FRFR is about. 

Why do I push this?  Well in the studio you can put some sound processing after your amp, speaker and mic - and that is what we think of as a produced or studio sound.  That's only possible if you go FRFR.

Now, maybe you and some others actually don't like that experience - you want that kick in the lollipop of a double stack Marshall or whatever experience - fair enough - but I argue that the total sound quality out front suffers - unless you have a devoted sound engineer and he/she has access to a great rack of outboard gear, and knows your material inside out.

Sorry if I just hijacked your conversation!

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... FRFR is the perfect bedroom solution (which a majority of us forum’ites are, presumably), however, I just think it’d be good to have a place to chat, trade ideas etc that are not always FRFR based..

 

 

 

I hear that you prefer a preamp/power-amp or guitar amp/cab setup to an FRFR or PA cab on stage and therefor would like to see more discussion of these approaches. Some of the more experimental types here actually like going back and forth between the two approaches (amp/cab vs. FRFR). I support whatever method people prefer to get their sound although I prefer using a powered cab or FRFR myself. I strongly disagree with your characterization (if I am understanding correctly what you are trying to say) that FRFRs and PA cabs used with the Helix are primarily for 'bedroom' players. I feel exactly the opposite. I am in a couple of bands and perform live on a regular basis and I feel that using an FRFR or powered speaker to craft your tone as well as monitor it on stage gets me a lot closer to being able to predict what is going out the the FOH and is vastly preferable to using a guitar amp or some variation thereof. I think using an FRFR or powered cab is an eminently professional approach to sound-crafting and monitoring (as are alternative methods). As I said though, I have no issue with people using what works best for them and wish you good luck encouraging discussion of other approaches.

 

Btw, although what kind of player you are definitely may influence your decision I think part of the reason you may see so many people talking about powered speaker and FRFRs with modelers has nothing to do with whether they are a studio, bedroom, or performing player.  In addition to the FRFR/powered-speaker ability to often be a more accurate predictor of the sound in the FOH they usually offer more power, headroom, more even frequency response, and a wider frequency range which puts them in a unique position to exploit some of the features of a modeler. If a preset is setup properly they also tend to yield a more uncolored version of the amp they are modeling than a traditional preamp/power-amp or guitar amp/cab setup. You have probably heard all this before though and still prefer an alternate approach which probably works best for you.

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Hi iamgeorge,

I think that in the Kemper and Fractal sites, (I could be wrong as I'm not on them) there is a lot more discussion about amps and cabs because of the timing of the release of their products.  They were ahead of the Helix.

I personally think that the future of all these devices is FRFR - obviously you don't.  

Knowing a Fractal guy, he bought a good power amp and a suitable speaker setup because that was the way people saw you could implement the thing in a live situation, but in the studio they were going direct into the desk.

Then I think people started to think to themselves that the sound they could tailor so well in the studio was the sound they wanted live.  That's what FRFR is about. 

Why do I push this?  Well in the studio you can put some sound processing after your amp, speaker and mic - and that is what we think of as a produced or studio sound.  That's only possible if you go FRFR.

Now, maybe you and some others actually don't like that experience - you want that kick in the lollipop of a double stack Marshall or whatever experience - fair enough - but I argue that the total sound quality out front suffers - unless you have a devoted sound engineer and he/she has access to a great rack of outboard gear, and knows your material inside out.

Sorry if I just hijacked your conversation! 

 

 

Hey man, good food for thought. I agree with basically everything you've written. I've owned 4 different FRFR 'gig-worthy' solutions, ranging from the CLR, Friedman ASM-12, two different Alto's and an RCX, all which have been good, especially the Friedman.  And I suppose it's different from player to player, and what the player likes to hear.  I know FRFR is possibly the way most players will want to play moving forward, I just don't find it consistent, and more often than not, you're at the mercy of, 1, the PA at the venue, 2, the sound guy.  If the PA is, to put it bluntly, sh!t, then how good is your sound going to be, regardless of much money you spent on buying IRs and so forth?  I'm avoiding the age old discussion or argument, 'which is better, Fender or Gibson', because different players will like them for different reasons - with there being no right or wrong.  FRFR is no doubt perfect for studios, home prac etc, but not live, not yet anyway - perhaps not for me. 

 

I don't think it matters whether FRFR is the future or not, to be perfectly honest.  I just don't think it's quite there yet - and that's my opinion.  I'm not knocking it, I'm just stating a view point. I relish the opportunity and day when I can wholey and solely use FRFR for MANY reasons, I really do. 

 

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly in regards to my original post, my idea was to have a forum that is more dedicated to non-FRFR solutions. 

 

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I hear that you prefer a preamp/power-amp or guitar amp/cab setup to an FRFR or PA cab on stage and therefor would like to see more discussion of these approaches. I think some of the more experimental types here actually like going back and forth between the two approaches (amp/cab vs. FRFR). I support whatever method people prefer to get their sound although I prefer using a powered cab or FRFR myself. I strongly disagree with your characterization (if I am understanding correctly what you are trying to say) that FRFRs and PA cabs used with the Helix are primarily for 'bedroom' players. I feel exactly the opposite. I am in a couple of bands and perform live on a regular basis and I feel that using an FRFR or powered speaker to craft your tone as well as monitor it on stage gets me a lot closer to being able to predict what is going out the the FOH and is vastly preferable to using a guitar amp or some variation thereof. I think using an FRFR or powered cab is an eminently professional approach to sound-crafting and monitoring (as are alternative methods). As I said though, I have no issue with people using what works best for them and wish you good luck encouraging discussion of other approaches.

 

Seriously man, I hear you too, and it's not to offend anyone with my opinion, I've simply stated what my thoughts are on FRFR and how it does or doesn't work for me.  At present, it doesn't work for me, and I hope one day that it does because it'll be SO much easier for me in many ways. I've tried and persevered with it, and it's not for me, not now anyway. Hopefully in due course it is. 

 

With all due respect, I didn't foresee this to upset people or to think that I've pigeon-holed a point.  Not to get off topic because that's not what this is about, it's more about having other options and avenues that are not just FRFR within this Forum that some of us can turn to - that's all.  That's what my original post is about. If people are offended or whatnot, I'm happy for the moderators to delete this whole thread, I don't mind. 

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Seriously man, I hear you too, and it's not to offend anyone with my opinion, I've simply stated what my thoughts are on FRFR and how it does or doesn't work for me. At present, it doesn't work for me, and I hope one day that it does because it'll be SO much easier for me in many ways. I've tried and persevered with it, and it's not for me, not now anyway. Hopefully in due course it is.

 

With all due respect, I didn't foresee this to upset people or to think that I've pigeon-holed a point. Not to get off topic because that's not what this is about, it's more about having other options and avenues that are not just FRFR within this Forum that some of us can turn to - that's all. That's what my original post is about. If people are offended or whatnot, I'm happy for the moderators to delete this whole thread, I don't mind.

I certainly hope they don't delete this thread. You are entitled to your opinion and additionally a conversation about non-FRFR methods for using the Helix would probably be helpful to plenty of folks who use it that way. I am simply pointing out that using one method or the other does not pigeonhole someone as being a bedroom player and I don't think that is what is primarily driving the FRFR/powered-speaker bias you are observing. If you don't want the topic to be full of people defending the FRFR approach, starting off by characterizing them as 'bedroom' players is probably not the best approach. Anyway, I don't want to hijack your topic any more than I already have, my apologies for that. Back to the topic at hand....

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Man, I am SO fickle about FRFR vs guitar cab/amp, live or house.  I love both.  I keep going back and forth all the time.  I've read countless posts on both camps, and agree with almost every point on both sides.

 

Just tonight I had the house to myself and was jammin out with Helix through my Tannoy 8" monitors and really got to crank them.  Loved it!

 

Then just tonight, since I've been trying to help another guy here hook up into the power amp in his L6 Vetta II solid state combo with custom L6 Celestion Classic Lead 80's, I broke out my old solid state Crate Power Block and plugged it into my Mesa Mark V combo speaker (same type Celestion as the Vetta), turned off the Helix cabs/IR's and played for over 2 hours, scrolling through all of the amps and even acoustic models of my JTV-69.  Everything sounded awesome with just default amp settings.

 

Guitar cabs and speakers are just easy and predictable.  It doesn't take much effort to get great, familiar and intuitive tones out of them.  You are dependent on the sound guy, which most can mic up a cab and dial it in well.  But you are limited on controlling your post-cab effects and running acoustic guitar, etc. through it.

 

But FRFR has it's rewards for those who invest the time in understanding and configuration of it, one being that you configured the final product that the audience hears, just the way you intend it...for better or worse.  It is the ultimate in flexibility.

 

Personally, I prefer the way a guitar cab fills the room or stage over FRFR. It just speaks to me and inspires me.  But there is no denying the quality, control and consistency of FRFR when configured properly, and I have a different set of appreciations for it.  

 

I wouldn't hesitate to use either.  Sometimes I wish I were forced to chose and commit to only one :)

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I am FRFR all the way.  

Though let me state I am not a touring musician. For the foreseeable future I have opted out of that for personal reasons. 

 

I am however not just a guitarist, I am also an amateur composer, and producer.  My plans are professional, just as a studio musician. I have my own studio now, and I use Event BAS 20/20 Studio Monitors, these are what have my Helix Rack hooked up to. They are indeed FRFR.  I do this because this best suits my needs. (for the price)

 

That said, I am not against a sub-forum of what you describe for anything other than FRFR. What about a permanent sticky thread, or something near the top, that shouldn't disrupt much?

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I don't think there should be a separate sub-forum for non-FRFR topics, for a few reasons:

 

- many users are both FRFR and non-FRFR in different circumstances and for different reasons. It's a disadvantage for them to have to look in two places.

 

- even users who are strictly FRFR and those who are strictly non-FRFR can learn from posts about the other. Personally I am strictly FRFR yet I have learned a lot by reading non-FRFR posts. Just today, for instance, I am experimenting with some IRs that have different options for signals that don't go through a power amp before hitting the IR. From my forum-based knowledge of amp outputs I am going to try using a preamp rather than full amp with these IRs. Don't know what the results will be but I'm pretty sure I would not have considered that if the non-FRFR topics were in an area I didn't visit. 

 

- it's not a Helix specific concern. If it makes sense for Helix presumably it makes retrospective sense for Pod HD, X3, xt, ...and all future guitar multiFX devices/forums. Forum management and overhead would be more cumbersome and require more effort for, I think, little advantage.

 

- lastly, and perhaps most simply, ...... if you're not interested in posts about FRFR then don't read them. ;) And if you want to hear only from non-FRFR users in a particular thread you open then make that request politely (without offending FRFR folks) in your opening statements. No need to complicate things with extra layers of forum structure.

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I'm on board with FRFR as well, but would never suggest someone who's accustomed to the sound and feel of a roaring tube power amp and cab to give that up. Helix was designed to work within the confines of your rig, not force you to work differently. Check out 8 TEMPLATES > 4-Cable Method to start. If you're ever interested in swapping out your amp's preamp with a modeled preamp, just hit the Helix Preamp switch.

 

FRFR isn't a destination—it's one of several doors. If you never get there, don't fight it. Use what you know and always trust your ears.  :)

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...I’ve noticed that in particular here in the Helix forum, there’s a huge amount of FRFR discussions, but there’s minimal discussions about players that don’t necessarily use FRFR...On the Fractal and Kemper forums, there are many discussions about FRFR, but there’s also a lot of discussions and banter about power amps + cabs + Kemper or Axe FX, _not just FRFR_.

 

 

My thought on this is that, if there are fewer threads regarding amps/cabs with Helix than there are for FRFR, it's only because less of them are being started by the forum members. Which is just an indication of the level of interest among this specific group. If you'd like to see more threads discussing Helix with amps/cabs, start a thread and begin discussing. If this thread had been titled "Who's using power amps and cabs with their Helix?" you'd be having the discussion right now. And I'd be reading it with great interest, even though I am myself an FRFR player. I don't see why it should need to be stuck in a different sub-forum.

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i'm in agreeance with the poster above, if it is only a small amount of posts about this why start a whole new separate forum for it?

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From my observations it seems like the discussions on non-FRFR setups comes and goes in waves around here.  We can go several weeks without a post on non-FRFR systems, but then within a week have three or four discussion topics posted.  Most of the time it's pretty easy to identify non-FRFR discussion topics from the title.  It just seems to me that it's a whole lot easier to identify a non-FRFR topic by title than to go to a separate topic that may not have a post for weeks.

 

As DI and Silverhead both point out, although I'm an exclusive user of FRFR (and am certainly not even close to the classification of a bedroom player) I have to say there are still some discussions on the topic that interest me and I've learned things from.  I'd hate to miss out on those opportunities because I didn't check out a topic area that's not terribly active most of the time.

 

In a way it's kind of like snapshots.  I'm not a snapshot user and likely never will be simply because of my chosen workflow.  That puts me apparently in the minority around here. But I certainly don't think it would be useful to separate out a topic designated for non snapshot users.  That would just be counter-productive in my opinion.

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FYI I am using this mostly for bass.

 

I tried the PA/FRFR route live a couple times and did not like it. If I had IEM I would probably enjoy it more I think, but since I am currently just using earplugs, as I play in a loud high energy rock band and do not want to go deaf, I found I just couldn't get into the music as much and my tone seemed much more muffled than what I was used to. Although many of the sound guys and audience thought it sounded good.

 

As a work around I simply split my signal and have one go to a cab then XLR/DI and the 1/4" out to go to a fryette 2902 power amp feeding a cab. This way the sound guy can easily control the floor volume and I have my cab as on stage volume it has worked very nicely.

 

I have found I just like the amp behind me pushing air, for guitar and bass, feeling too much to go FRFR. 

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Personally, I prefer the way a guitar cab fills the room or stage over FRFR. It just speaks to me and inspires me. But there is no denying the quality, control and consistency of FRFR when configured properly, and I have a different set of appreciations for it.

 

It's funny because I have the exact oposite experience. I was using tube amps before, ending with the DT25. I absolutely loved the tone but wasn't quite satisfied with how it sat in the mix and filled the room. In recordings at the rehearsals using a Zoom in the middle of the room the DT was barely audible. Also the other musicians often complained that they couldn't hear me.

Now I switched to a FireHawh 1500 and WOW!!! This beast filled the room like nothing I tried before. Everyone is happy now and the recordings are fantastic. The definition of my tone is much more detailed.

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I have found I just like the amp behind me pushing air, for guitar and bass, feeling too much to go FRFR.

 

I agree about the amp the pushing air Behind me. With the FireHawk I have that, even though its FRFR.

Best of both worlds?

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I guess for me the "amp filling the room" or "moving air" became more of a distraction than an inspiration.  That's only a good feeling if it doesn't drown out what you hear coming from the rest of the band and it makes it hard to blend what you're doing with what everyone else is doing.  My personal opinion is using FRFR actually improved the band by getting rid of some of the sloppiness and overlap in the instruments.  It helped me to hear them and them to hear me.  I'm hoping some day I can convince the other guitar player to go this route.

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And again...all valid points for FRFR.  I love it!

 

Firehawk 1500 is definitely on my "try" list.  It seems well-engineered to spread and fill on stage, it a room, etc.  I'm sure it's a more guitar-cab-comparable experience than playing through studio monitors, even 8" ones, and PA speakers.

 

But because Helix sounds SO good through my guitar cabs and solid state or neutral tube amp, it's hard for me to be really motivated to change over.

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i'm in agreeance with the poster above, if it is only a small amount of posts about this why start a whole new separate forum for it?

Agreed. Thats why I suggested a permanent stickied thread at the top of the Helix forum for non FRFR. Gives the op what he wants and doesnt divide the forums.

 

EDIT: I feel I must clarify I'm not invested one way or the other, I was just providing a sort of middle ground solution. 

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An electric guitar doesn't make noise without amplification and a speaker at the other end. The whole rig is just one instrument. That IS the instrument.

 

It's like giving a saxophone player a reed, mouthpiece and valves but no horn section to make noise come out of... them replacing it with something completely different but that also makes noise and then try telling them it's the best sound for the audience and their original bit of their instrument for making noise actually sucked for the past 200 years or whatever.

 

 

Oh but that's how a recorded saxophone sounds through a PA they yell....

 

Look, if you like playing live with FRFR that's great for you and you and whoever else... but there's far too many people that seem to look at us amp+cab guys like we are a) stupid and b) doing it wrong.

 

No, the sound out front will not suffer. Yes, there are many benefits of using valves and guitar speakers on stage, least of which is dynamic range. No, using recorded guitar tones live is not always a good idea. Yes, wjat the musician on stage feels and hears isn't as important to the performance as any stage bleed an anal sound engineer might think the audience will demand refunds over (sarcasm for those of you without it)

 

Nobody is right and nobody is wrong. If it works great. Just enough with the amp and cab bashing

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Oh but that's how a recorded saxophone sounds through a PA they yell....

 

Oh, what do they know? Sax players are never in tune anyway...;)

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I’ve noticed that in particular here in the Helix forum, there’s a huge amount of FRFR discussions, but there’s minimal discussions about players that don’t necessarily use FRFR.  

 

I'm surprised no one has brought this up before, but I think the main reason you see so much talk re: FRFR here vs the other brand sites is that FRFR is Helix's focus.  Granted there are LOTS of uses, and LOTS of different configurations available, but it's being sold, marketed, hyped, designed, as a device that reproduces the "mic'd" sound, and has routing capabilities and output options to use external amps and more.   AxeFX is designed more as a performance device that also has the ability to send the reproduced mic's sound, same for Kemper.    If you look back at a lot of the marketing, and youTube stuff for the other products, they are focusing on what amp/speaker combo is the best.   Helix has some of that obviously, but that isn't the primary intent, just one of the options. I think that plays out here.  

 

I think additionally, bang for buck, Helix hits to the two extremes of "type of musician" covered really well.   I'm not sure about the rest of us in the middle, but if you're a "bedroom rocker" the Helix is perfect.  You can even play backing tracks and just use headsets through it, and even add a mic and sing along if you want to.   If you're a touring musician with a band that plays around the world, again, perfect.   You bring the tone the audience expects from you no matter what crap gear the local venue has lined up.  While the other products out there "can" do those things....  I don't think it's as seamless to do as it is with the Helix.  ESPECIALLY if you set everything up with the "intent" of using it FRFR if live.   

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Oh, what do they know? Sax players are never in tune anyway...;)

Lol try playing with a set of bagpipes. They pride themselves in how sharp their high A can be

 

Seriously though, let's make drummers all use electric kits to go FRFR with some matrix cans behind them because that's the sound a recorded drum kit makes and screw you drummers it's all about the audience

 

Then let's just all kill ourselves cause I genuinely don't want to live in that world!

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Lol try playing with a set of bagpipes. They pride themselves in how sharp their high A can be

 

Seriously though, let's make drummers all use electric kits to go FRFR with some matrix cans behind them because that's the sound a recorded drum kit makes and screw you drummers it's all about the audience

 

Then let's just all kill ourselves cause I genuinely don't want to live in that world!

 

I routinely mix a couple of bands that the drums are electronic kits.  The drummers LOVE it, the band loves it, the audience loves it.   So much control, so much clarity, a fraction of the gear... and frankly that "fraction of the gear" probably has the most impact.   Don't knock it until you've tried it.    To be fair...  this works best when the venue is smaller than 600-700 people.  Any larger and the stage monitors for the drums need to be up to high, or in-ears need to be up to high etc etc..  it just gets more complicated in larger spaces.  But average club stages... you can get such a huge, balanced sound that is nearly impossible with real drums where FOH is basically restricted to "just be louder than the drums"..   

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FRFR is the perfect bedroom solution (which a majority of us forum’ites are, presumably)

 

I don't understand why you would think either thing; FRFR being the perfect "bedroom solution," or that the majority of participants here don't play out live with bands. I haven't tallied it up, but folks are frequently talking about their gig experiences with Helix here. Some of them may be "weekend warriors" and some (like myself) play guitar for a living, but either way, I get the impression that Helix's are getting out and about more often than not among us. 

 

As for the perfect bedroom solution, I would think that would be headphones, not FRFR powered speakers. Married folks with kids aren't likely to be blasting their powered speakers at home unless they have a soundproofed room. And there are some ways that those P.A. like speakers have an advantage over amps and cabs, like the the way they disperse sound over a wider field, or how much closer they may come to duplicating what's coming out of the FOH. Though I've decided to go the FRFR route myself, I'm not necessarily biased towards that and I get the whole "pushing air" thing, having used tube amps and cabs for decades. I'm actually intrigued by reports about good results using Helix with the Vetta combo, since I still have mine. To be honest, I haven't tried it because I'm afraid I'd like it too much! One thing about my FRFR speaker is that it's weighs less than half of what that combo weighs and I'm 63 now; a little too old to still be loading that beast into dodgy club entrances. But you gotta love how versatile the Helix is; seems as if Line 6 seriously considered the various ways people want to set up their rigs, or record... and didn't leave many stones unturned.

 

I don't think there should be a separate sub-forum for non-FRFR topics, for a few reasons:

 

- many users are both FRFR and non-FRFR in different circumstances and for different reasons. It's a disadvantage for them to have to look in two places.

 

- even users who are strictly FRFR and those who are strictly non-FRFR can learn from posts about the other. Personally I am strictly FRFR yet I have learned a lot by reading non-FRFR posts. Just today, for instance, I am experimenting with some IRs that have different options for signals that don't go through a power amp before hitting the IR. From my forum-based knowledge of amp outputs I am going to try using a preamp rather than full amp with these IRs. Don't know what the results will be but I'm pretty sure I would not have considered that if the non-FRFR topics were in an area I didn't visit. 

 

- it's not a Helix specific concern. If it makes sense for Helix presumably it makes retrospective sense for Pod HD, X3, xt, ...and all future guitar multiFX devices/forums. Forum management and overhead would be more cumbersome and require more effort for, I think, little advantage.

 

- lastly, and perhaps most simply, ...... if you're not interested in posts about FRFR then don't read them. ;) And if you want to hear only from non-FRFR users in a particular thread you open then make that request politely (without offending FRFR folks) in your opening statements. No need to complicate things with extra layers of forum structure.

 

I agree with this; we all have the Helix in common after all. I think the sticky non-FRFR thread might be the best solution for keeping everybody happy.

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I don't understand why you would think either thing; FRFR being the perfect "bedroom solution," or that the majority of participants here don't play out live with bands. I haven't tallied it up, but folks are frequently talking about their gig experiences with Helix here. Some of them may be "weekend warriors" and some (like myself) play guitar for a living, but either way, I get the impression that Helix's are getting out and about more often than not among us. 

 

As for the perfect bedroom solution, I would think that would be headphones, not FRFR powered speakers. Married folks with kids aren't likely to be blasting their powered speakers at home unless they have a soundproofed room. And there are some ways that those P.A. like speakers have an advantage over amps and cabs, like the the way they disperse sound over a wider field, or how much closer they may come to duplicating what's coming out of the FOH. Though I've decided to go the FRFR route myself, I'm not necessarily biased towards that and I get the whole "pushing air" thing, having used tube amps and cabs for decades. I'm actually intrigued by reports about good results using Helix with the Vetta combo, since I still have mine. To be honest, I haven't tried it because I'm afraid I'd like it too much! One thing about my FRFR speaker is that it's weighs less than half of what that combo weighs and I'm 63 now; a little too old to still be loading that beast into dodgy club entrances. But you gotta love how versatile the Helix is; seems as if Line 6 seriously considered the various ways people want to set up their rigs, or record... and didn't leave many stones unturned.

 

 

I agree with this; we all have the Helix in common after all. I think the sticky non-FRFR thread might be the best solution for keeping everybody happy.

 

I'm confused, you say you agree with Silverhead who stated he does not think there should be a sticky topic for non-FRFR solutions but you then state you think there should be one. IMHO I do not think this should be a sticky topic for several of the reasons Silverhead stated.

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I'm confused, you say you agree with Silverhead who stated he does not think there should be a sticky topic for non-FRFR solutions but you then state you think there should be one. IMHO I do not think this should be a sticky topic for several of the reasons Silverhead stated.

 

Honestly man, not being nasty, but who cares really?  The key point to my thread wasn't to get people off side, which I obviously did which was NOT the intention, so really who cares what I think, or what I agree or disagree with?  My main point still stands somewhat; and that is that it would be good to maybe have a chat room/forum/sticky (call it whatever you want) that isn't FRFR, given that FRFR dominates all many points.  Most people seem to be against that idea for reasons they can only justify - and that's completely fine too, THAT doesn't bother me. 

 

And to your last sentence there, in your opinion; that is exactly the point, it was an idea, it was an opinion - nothing more. I've stated mine, you've stated yours.  That's what dis-heartens me about forums; things can get too easily critiqued for usually not the right reasons, then the whole point or idea gets completely missed. People are quick to dissect something and then carry on about what was said and how it's not right or whatever. Sometimes it's not even worth putting up a post because someone will look at it the wrong way.  Like I said earlier, not trying to be nasty  #olivebranch

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I'm confused, you say you agree with Silverhead who stated he does not think there should be a sticky topic for non-FRFR solutions but you then state you think there should be one. IMHO I do not think this should be a sticky topic for several of the reasons Silverhead stated.

 

He said there shouldn't be a sub-forum for non-FRFR users and I agree with that. He mentioned starting one's own thread to talk specifically to those users. I just think it couldn't hurt for it to be a "sticky," which Lachdanan0121 suggested. To me, that's something different than a sub-forum. It wouldn't have to be a sticky either; if it gets enough responses it'll be a "hot topic"... close enough! I don't really have strong feelings about it one way or the other, just trying to be a peacemaker before the amp/cab users and the FRFR users declare a civil war.  :unsure:

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 I don't really have strong feelings about it one way or the other, just trying to be a peacemaker before the amp/cab users and the FRFR users declare a civil war.  :unsure:

 

Now that you mention it, I don't really have strong feelings about it either. I think both approaches are valid and definitely don't want to see auditoriums and bar floors littered with the burnt out carcasses of Boogies and Atomics left over from the 'Great Modeling War'.  :huh:

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I'm not sure where this fits in if at all, but I decided to get my Yamaha NS10M (original ones) out of my storage unit and hear what the Helix sounded like though them.

 

Love'em or hate'em, most every album you can name was mixed through a pair of NS10M's at some point in it's recording/production process.  

 

I have been using my Full Range guitar cab (2 x 12 ported Genz Benz with EV 12L's) until now and it was fine, but took up a lot of space in the room I'm temporarily using until the studio is finished.  

 

Well the cab is in storage now.  I really didn't know what I was missing by not going FRFR.   Granted, just playing guitar without anything else it sounds "different" but once I bring up backing tracks to play with... WOW !!!   Whatever track I selected, when I started playing along, it was like I was re-mixing the track with MY guitar in it.    Just amazing.  

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