Helix and computer amp sims

[zooey]

Anybody using Helix with computer amp sims? How are you hooked up?

 

Before Helix, I was a big Amplitube fan, some Scuffham too, and Fender Collection 2 is out, would like to check it out, thought it'd be a good opportunity/motivator for figuring out how to get these two sorts of platforms to coexist nicely.

 

I figured I'd plug my guitar into Helix like usual, set up a USB round trip to get into the computer and back, then try some ways to integrate the two in Helix. Not likely to take that hybrid rig out of the house, but I'd like to see how it feels.

 

If anyone is doing this, specifics please!

[AlexKenivel]

Perhaps using a separate interface would work.. Send and returns from in the input and output of the interface to the Helix and the computer is in the chain.. In theory.

 

Last time I tried to do something like this I almost got shocked and probably could've damaged something

[zooey]

I haven't used this capability at all, but Helix functions as a 8 in 8 out USB interface, and you can patch stuff around internally, so I don't think another interface should be needed.

 

I most just play guitar when I go down to the "studio", so I haven't tried recording or patching through VSTs at all.

[roscoe5]

I use Helix with Amplitube over single USB.  It works great and am able to set the latency in AT to 64ms.

 

AT sees the Helix drivers in its audio/midi settings.

 

Since audio from the computer on USB 1/2 is always heard in Helix, I set the AT output to USB 3/4 so that I can control where it is inserted in Helix blocks.

 

The two are fun together.  I mainly play around with Helix amps through AT cab room.  But the multi-channel AT looper and recorder is quicker and easier than my DAW to jam and work out ideas.  AT has easy MIDI map and learning to set Helix up for control.

[silverhead]

Be aware that if you use your Helix as the audio interface, it a full ASIO device. That means it operates as your audio input/output device when using a DAW. In turn, that means there will be latency when you use any amp sims or VSTs that run on your computer. It takes some number of milliseconds (enough to be noticeable) for your DAW/computer to take the incoming Helix signal, process it with the sim/VST, then get it back to Helix for output to speakers/headphones connected to Helix.

[zooey]

@silverhead, that's no different from any other ASIO device, except for differences in the minimum latency you can achieve with the Helix driver. When I played through Amplitube before Helix, there was some latency with the Focusrite drivers, because zero latency isn't possible, but it wasn't enough to be a problem, for me.

[silverhead]

Right - no different. Sorry for the unnecessary caution. As long as you're able to achieve satisfactory results there'll be no problem.

[roscoe5]

One thing I did notice about Helix and AT is that I can set the latency to 64ms in AT with no issues.  Using IK's own iRig Duo interface, I cant go below 256 ms without hiccups.  I think Line 6's dedicated drivers help out.  IK uses generic ASIO4All.

[zooey]

Hmmm, an unwelcome oddity. I haven't used AT for months, only a few times since I got my Helix. Today when I launched it after installing the newest version of AT 4 to get the new Fender stuff, basic audio isn't working.

 

First off, all my settings in the Audio MIDI Setup dialog are gone. Second, when I choose ASIO from the Technology dropdown, I get an alert, "Could not initialize Audio Device. Change audio driver or check your advanced Audio Settings in Control Panel, make sure input/output same rate match same value for selected device."

 

I'm using the same Focusrite 2i2 I've always used with AT in the living room, and which I still use for headphones there, and which is WORKING FINE for playing audio, videos, etc.. IOW, Windows can use it, but apparently AT csuddently can't.

 

I do plan to use Helix for audio and MIDI at least sometimes in my basement studio, but I haven't  tried that yet, always used a 2i2 in the living room and an 18i20 downstairs, and they've been doing fine.

 

I know this isn't the actual place to ask about this distinctly non-Helix problem, but does anyone have any ideas?

[zooey]

FM8 sees the 2i2 via ASIO, and works fine with it. Seems to be an Amplitube problem. Yay.

 

Enough, think I'll have Christmas eve dinner with my wife (:-)

 

Happy holidays everyone!

[chuskey]

Anybody using Helix with computer amp sims? How are you hooked up?

 

Before Helix, I was a big Amplitube fan, some Scuffham too, and Fender Collection 2 is out, would like to check it out, thought it'd be a good opportunity/motivator for figuring out how to get these two sorts of platforms to coexist nicely.

 

I figured I'd plug my guitar into Helix like usual, set up a USB round trip to get into the computer and back, then try some ways to integrate the two in Helix. Not likely to take that hybrid rig out of the house, but I'd like to see how it feels.

 

If anyone is doing this, specifics please!

This won't help for playing in real time, but for recording I like capturing the Helix sound on USB channel 1/2 and then capturing the dry signal over USB 7.  Then I can use S Gear 2 or Guitar Rig 5 to apply to the dry signal.  Gives me tons of flexibility when I get to the mix down phase.  Using Amp sims to augment Helix is the best of all worlds :)

[zooey]

My plan exactly, best of all worlds, as you say.

 

Far as "real time" goes, meaning out of the house at a jam or gig, one of the main reasons I got a Helix was because I didn't want to do that with a laptop, just too many moving parts. This fubar w Amplitube, even though I assume it'll get resolved eventually, just proves that case.

[shanecgriffo]

update drivers? i think when interfaces play audio from videos etc they are not actually using asio drivers, not sure about this, but i think it used to be the case.

[zooey]

Thanks, but the most recent drivers for the original 2i2 I have are installed.

[willjrock]

I use Helix with Amplitube over single USB.  It works great and am able to set the latency in AT to 64ms.

 

AT sees the Helix drivers in its audio/midi settings.

 

Since audio from the computer on USB 1/2 is always heard in Helix, I set the AT output to USB 3/4 so that I can control where it is inserted in Helix blocks.

 

The two are fun together.  I mainly play around with Helix amps through AT cab room.  But the multi-channel AT looper and recorder is quicker and easier than my DAW to jam and work out ideas.  AT has easy MIDI map and learning to set Helix up for control.

Man im having a hard time wrapping my brain around this. I didnt try it in A4 yet but I did use BIAS and the same should be possible.

 

I get setting the INPUTS on BIAS to 3/4 and then setting Helix output block to 3/4 so only BIAS can be heard, but what you are doing... im bewildered :)

 

Seems to me that you can set A4 anywhere in the signal path you please, so for instance stupor OD>A4>simple delay>monitors How do you get to the input of A4 after stupor OD?

 

EDIT: You know what? I think i just figured it out :) You would go out to BIAS at the output block of path 1 and back in at path 2? Im a dummy :)

 

EDIT 2: Mehhh maybe not :(

 

Hmmm, an unwelcome oddity. I haven't used AT for months, only a few times since I got my Helix. Today when I launched it after installing the newest version of AT 4 to get the new Fender stuff, basic audio isn't working.

 

First off, all my settings in the Audio MIDI Setup dialog are gone. Second, when I choose ASIO from the Technology dropdown, I get an alert, "Could not initialize Audio Device. Change audio driver or check your advanced Audio Settings in Control Panel, make sure input/output same rate match same value for selected device."

 

I'm using the same Focusrite 2i2 I've always used with AT in the living room, and which I still use for headphones there, and which is WORKING FINE for playing audio, videos, etc.. IOW, Windows can use it, but apparently AT csuddently can't.

 

I do plan to use Helix for audio and MIDI at least sometimes in my basement studio, but I haven't  tried that yet, always used a 2i2 in the living room and an 18i20 downstairs, and they've been doing fine.

 

I know this isn't the actual place to ask about this distinctly non-Helix problem, but does anyone have any ideas?

I wonder if this is similar?

[requietus666]

The setup is pretty easy

[willjrock]

Oh yeah man, but using a DAW seriously over complicates the matter. Very simple using a standalone program.

 

I DID get it to work. For whatever reason. usb 3/4 doesnt want to work in this sense. It just creates a feedback loop. When i inputted amplitube with usb 3/4 and used usb 5/6 on the outputs it worked perfectly. Maybe it has something to do with the reamping "stipulations".  

[zooey]

I wonder if this is similar?

@willjrock: Could be. When did you see that? How did you resolve it?

[willjrock]

I dont know....It kind of popped up and went away on its own. I have 4 asio drivers installed on this computer. BIAS for whatever reason wanted to load the asio4all driver, instead of helix.  When i tried to select the asio helix drivers thats what popped up. FWIW i have never tried to run these two programs together in this manner.

 

Now the drivers for my other two interfaces i can understand, because those interfaces were not plugged into the computer, but the Helix WAS.  My guess is that BIAS didnt see the helix right away and loaded asio4all instead, and then still wasnt recognizing helix asio when i tried to switch.

 

Then weird thing is that this happened a couple of more times, after BIAS had had plenty of opportunity to see helix asio, and did so successfully. (because as you can see by the thread, i couldnt get these two programs to function properly, which lead to a lot of opening/closing programs, rerouting ect..) .........so best i can figure is that there is a bit of a usb lag, and when asio4all driver is the currently selected driver, and then i try to select helix asio, the program sees nothing, instead of helix asio as it should....but what do i know? I'll see if its repeatable a little later.

[zooey]

UPDATE:
- Restarted my laptop, no change
- Tried some more VSTIs, all of them could see and use the 2i2
- SEM V, FM8, and impOSCar2 could use it at the same time

Really does seem to be a problem with Amplitube.

[zooey]

Tried every other amp sim I have, they all work fine with ASIO and the 2i2.

That's S-Gear 2 (which is still awesome BTW), Studio Devil BVC, GTR 3.5, Guitar Rig 5, and ReValver Mk IIIdotV Standalone, no problem with any of them.

AmpliTube OTOH can only connect to Windows Audio, with the expected horrible latency.

I gather nobody else is seeing this?

[roscoe5]

Tried every other amp sim I have, they all work fine with ASIO and the 2i2.

 

That's S-Gear 2 (which is still awesome BTW), Studio Devil BVC, GTR 3.5, Guitar Rig 5, and ReValver Mk IIIdotV Standalone, no problem with any of them.

 

AmpliTube OTOH can only connect to Windows Audio, with the expected horrible latency.

 

I gather nobody else is seeing this?

Zooey, it totally slipped my mind. Sorry I'm not in front of my computer and can't give screenshots.

 

I only had to do this once the first time I installed Amplitube, but I had to do this again after the recent AT4 update.

 

In AT audio settings, one level deeper I think when hitting another settings button, I had to "turn off" other audio drivers that I didn't want to use before it would use helix. It's that small window that pops up with the blue buttons.

[zooey]

Zooey, it totally slipped my mind. Sorry I'm not in front of my computer and can't give screenshots.

 

I only had to do this once the first time I installed Amplitube, but I had to do this again after the recent AT4 update.

 

In AT audio settings, one level deeper I think when hitting another settings button, I had to "turn off" other audio drivers that I didn't want to use before it would use helix. It's that small window that pops up with the blue buttons.

Hmmm, an enticing possibility, but I don't know what you mean. The only dialog I see that maybe could be opened from Audio MIDI Set up is by clicking the Panel... button, but it's always disabled for me.

 

And just to be clear, I wasn't trying to use Helix for i/o, just the same Focusrite 2i2 I've used for a long time for living room audio, but I can't get Amplitube to select ASIO to start with. This wasn't me trying to do something wild and original, or even serious on any level. I just wanted to plunk on the new Amplitube Fender Collection 2 a little. My laptop was upstairs, Helix and 18i20 downstairs, so I thought I'd do what I've always done up here, but no joy.

 

If you can point me in a specific direction when you get back to your system, I'd appreciate it.

[willjrock]

Thanks, but the most recent drivers for the original 2i2 I have are installed.

I would ditch the 2i2 for now and plug your Helix in USB style, and run Amplitube that way. It works slick as lollipops as roscat said.

 

Of course A4 should already be seeing helix drivers, IF you have been plugged in with usb all along...and im betting you have for use of the editor. Unplug 2i2 to avoid any hiccups. (no, i know it shouldnt be necessary, but you dont need it)

 

Heres my settings menu. Notice that the input device is grayed and

the actual driver is chose in the output settings tab.  On a side note,

im pretty sure roscoe is mistaken about a "deeper" setting. A4 should

give you the opportunity to choose ANY and ALL drivers available.

Of course it has to "see" said driver first. The key here is getting A4

to see the helix driver, and as long as helix has been plugged in by

usb and turned on, it should pretty well be automatic.

 

[Ka5par]

One thing I did notice about Helix and AT is that I can set the latency to 64ms in AT with no issues.  Using IK's own iRig Duo interface, I cant go below 256 ms without hiccups.  I think Line 6's dedicated drivers help out.  IK uses generic ASIO4All.

 

256 samples, not ms I hope. 256 ms would be unplayable. It should be in the sub 10ms range.

[roscoe5]

256 samples, not ms I hope. 256 ms would be unplayable. It should be in the sub 10ms range.

Yeah, "samples" sorry.

[roscoe5]

Hmmm, an enticing possibility, but I don't know what you mean. The only dialog I see that maybe could be opened from Audio MIDI Set up is by clicking the Panel... button, but it's always disabled for me.

 

And just to be clear, I wasn't trying to use Helix for i/o, just the same Focusrite 2i2 I've used for a long time for living room audio, but I can't get Amplitube to select ASIO to start with. This wasn't me trying to do something wild and original, or even serious on any level. I just wanted to plunk on the new Amplitube Fender Collection 2 a little. My laptop was upstairs, Helix and 18i20 downstairs, so I thought I'd do what I've always done up here, but no joy.

 

If you can point me in a specific direction when you get back to your system, I'd appreciate it.

 

Okay @Zooey,  I found what I was thinking of last night.  AT4>Settings>Audio MIDI Setup>Panel (button next to Buffer Size)>Turn off all devices in the WDM Device List except for Helix.  Then go pack to the Audio MIDI settings widow and select Output device = ASIO Helix and select you desired inputs and outputs.

 

I dropped a couple of pics here...

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4wgopap77ys3gj7/AACjazlVaTDJwcZz8HqJPg1ga?dl=0

[zooey]

Thanks, but you're not quite hearing what I'm saying.

 

The Panel button is always disabled for me, I think because it's the ASIO control panel, and Amplitube won't let me select ASIO in the Technology dropdown, gives the "Could not initialize Audio Device..." alert I mentioned. All the rest of my amp sims work fine with ASIO and the 2i2.

 

Also, I'm not actually trying to use Helix audio right now. The 2i2 is my living room setup, Helix is down in the studio. I will try Helix and Amplitube at some point, but that's not this.

 

 

BTW, I've only been playing through Helix since I got it, forgot how great S-Gear is. No diss on Helix, but S-Gear sounds and feels very nice to me. Used to like Amplitube too, probably still will when I get it working again. Still plan to use Helix most of time, and all the time out of the house, but credit where it's due.

[roscoe5]

I see. Strange that the AT settings panel button is disabled. I'm not sure what to do on that one.

 

You might try installing or updating the ASIO4ALL driver if one of your other interfaces use it.

[zooey]

I've never had ASIO4ALL installed, and I've been using the 2i2 with AT and S-Gear and Studio One and other standalone amp sims and synths etc for years.

 

Agree, this is odd. Hopefully I'll hear back from support soon.

 

OTOH, while it's nice to be able to play this stuff in the living room, what I ACTUALLY want for real is that the 18i20 works downstairs, and hopefully that I can get Helix i/o running there too, which I've never tried.

 

OTOOH, I just spent the afternoon Playing My Guitar through Helix and FRFRs, no computer, like I've been doing since I got my Helix, and it was Fun!

[willjrock]

So, Amplitube4 had worked fine for me for a day or two, and now its like the driver got hung up in Studio One or something, and A4 is now the only program not working. Including A3,which works fine.  I have the feeling that a restart could fix the problem, but it seems as if communication between helix and A4 drivers, are questionable at the very least.

 

I accidentally started A4 while Studio One was open, and my guess is that the driver is not equipped to be occupied by both  programs (or actually all three - meaning S1, A4, and Helix) at once, which makes sense i guess.

 

Edit: No dice. Restart did not solve the issue.

[zooey]

Sounds like it's reverted to exactly my case, Unfortunate.

 

As I reported earlier, restarting didn't fix it for me, and multiple vstis plus Windows itself are able to use the 2i2 at the same time, just not Amplitube, with or without other programs accessing it besides Windows.

 

AT4 worked fine the last time I used it, which was before installing this latest update.

 

Software is hard.

[zooey]

Just so I'm clear...

• Are you using the latest Amplitube, the one with the new Fender Collection 2?
• If so, was it working before you installed that, then not working after? Or did it just stop working without you installing anything?
• Are you using Amplitube with Helix for i/o, or some other audio device and driver?
• Have you reported this to IK Support? If not, please do, the more people they see having similar problems, the better the chances of it getting taken seriously, and of them finding a pattern.

[zooey]

Just FYI, you reminded me to try Amplitube 3. It crashes hard a few seconds after launch. Yay. I vaguely remember that that may not be new o my system, not sure, no reason to use it since AT4.

[zooey]

Support said this:

 

Go to C > Users > Name > Appdata > Roaming > IK Multimedia > AmpliTube 4 > Delete the AmpliTube settings files here. Now retry it.

You must have show hidden files/folders option on in Windows to see the Appdata and beyond option.

Did that, no change. Same alert appears when I select ASIO from the Technology dropdown, so I can't select the 2i2.
 

[willjrock]

• Hey thanks for all the help. Sorry to leave you hangin.
•  

• Are you using the latest Amplitube, the one with the new Fender Collection 2?

   

  I doubt it. 4.0.2  No fender collection. At least not installed. 

 Or did it just stop working without you installing anything?

 

Just quit working without any changes

 

• Are you using Amplitube with Helix for i/o, or some other audio device and driver?

   

   

Yes, if i understand you correctly. Using A4 with Helix. See post #24 this thread.

 

Have you reported this to IK Support? If not, please do, the more people they see having similar problems, the better the chances of it getting taken seriously, and of them finding a pattern.

 

No, and youre right. My first post was here because i was surprised by the circumstances, and i knew you were having similar hang ups. I probably should have reported it to IK straight away. Ive been gone all day, so first chance i get i will report it.

[zooey]

FYI, installing ASIO4ALL, as suggested by Support, did let AT see and use the 2i2. It's not a real solution, but I've passed that info along to Support as requested to help them troubleshoot, and it lets me use AT in the mean time.