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Hum buzz hiss in amp models?


chrisvermaak
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Why do I get above noise when I pluck a string on my noiseless Fender Elite guitar. Dead silent before pluck. Only starts when there is actual throughput to the amp block. Pluck a single string and listen.....

I find that irritating and has reverted to build presets without the amp models.

 

I do use the cab blocks which does give a nice tone with much less of this "noise"

 

I do not use the noise gate at all. Like to set impedance at 22kOhm. 

 

It may be the modelling of actual bias of tubes kicking in but then I have a VOX AC30 and there is no such noise.

 

Unfortunately I use L6 L3T speakers and then this background noise is really noticeable on solo lead on single strings.

 

Would IR be a better solution to get Hank Marvin clean tones.

 

I can build a perfectly clean tone using any of the blocks excluding amps and cabs but then that "tone" I am chasing is not achievable.

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Are you getting this on all amp models? Are you running any other effects blocks in front of the amp model?

 

Even though you have "noiseless" pickups, they are not completely noiseless in some situations. Mine seem to still have some noise when playing near some of those CFL lightbulbs. The lightbulbs put out quite a bit of EMI. 

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You say you that you are not having any problem with your AC30?

So........are you reasonably new to the Helix?

The Helix puts out a full range sound.  But a guitar amp does not.  Often people complain about "fizz" from the Helix.

This is a result of hearing a guitar in a way that is totally unnatural to a guitarist.  Is this what you are hearing??

You generally hear guitar through a guitar amp and a speaker designed to reproduce the range of the guitar and little else.

The quick solution is to roll off your high frequencies (you will probably want to adjust your tone on the amp a bit when you do)

​A lot of seasoned Helix users use the global EQ to roll off everything below 100Hz and everything above say 5 or 6KHz.

This is not the only solution, but what that does is squish you full range sound through something similar to a guitar speaker.

Try that - see if you like the sound a lot more?

Good quality IRs help a lot with this as they are a guitar speaker box heard through a mic - which is automatically putting you more in the ballpark.

So they do a lot to make things sound natural.

I still think IRs need EQ.  I hear a lot of stuff on the forum about a good IR is all you need.........I disagree.  I never saw an amp miced in the studio without EQ on the desk to sit it in the mix - generally still too much bottom and top - we all know midrange helps you cut through - and so I'm still suggesting EQ even if you have Ownhammer IRs - but they really help a lot and improve your Helix another 30%.

Also just check the earthing on your guitar - I bought a new Strat in February and had huge noise issues - turned out the shielding paint on the body cavity was not connected (well actually making electrical contact) to the earth.

But I'm betting its Highend rolloff. 

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So whats the benefit of that?

you need a good level or you could be getting noise from somewhere, say if helix was low and the amp had to be turned up too high.. any electrical noise/interference will be boosted. I think helix sounds better with a healthy level on the knob too

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you need a good level or you could be getting noise from somewhere, say if helix was low and the amp had to be turned up too high.. any electrical noise/interference will be boosted. I think helix sounds better with a healthy level on the knob too

Makes sense - thanks!

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Thank you for all the responses. But I need to make clear the noize is not from Fender Elite. I take a new blank preset. Just play the guitar and there is just clean tone. Sounds like a laboratory though but clean. No hum no buzz no fizz (ok there is inherently always a small amount of fizz very low in volume from the L3t's but really that does not bother me at all) In this condition my Helix and L3t speakers are like a real HiFi and backing tracks or any music is just brilliant.

 

But for the guitar presets one must get rid of a bit of glass sound from the Elite and delays and reverbs all brilliant on the Helix. To get the tone I now use just a Cab. The 4x10 Tweed. It does start to add a bit of noise but not much and that gives very nice tone.

 

I have built some really nice presets sounding great (and tweaked them into rubbish again) but one thing is clear when I use amps then there is hiss and hum and noise. And I test that easily by just bypass the amp or ampcab block and gone is the noise (but also the the tone :huh:)

 

As for levels I have a principle of 0dB (zero dB) which I apply. Each effect I install remains at 0dB and the overall volume output remains at 0dB. I test this with dB meter. So when I turn the Helix volume to 15h00 I have real volume for the house and at 100% it is loud! I do this to ensure me switching presets does not requrie twirling the guitar volume each time (I try to maintain the guitar volume at 9 such that I provide plenty signal to the input side of the Helix such that signal to noise ratio can be at its best with a bit of reserve on the guitar)

 

I just have to mention that in no way will I ever get rid of my Helix but just thought that these noises may be DSP usage though I am sure I do not use nearly as much as I have seen other guys do on youtube. Relative simple patches chasing clean tone with character.

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I get some minor hiss on certain amps, but nothing that can't easily be dealt with using the noise gate.  Certainly my Strat tends to be a bit noisier than my Les Paul or Gretsch, but I attribute the minor hiss to an artifact of how the amp stages would act in real life on a real amp.  So that leaves me a bit confused as to what it is you're hearing.

 

I'm assuming the "glass sound" you're referring to is the somewhat brittle sound you get from the highs produced by a FRFR speaker which has much greater response on the upper end of the frequency spectrum.  As mentioned before, most people mitigate this by using high cut filters to limit the response in the high range that wouldn't be there with a normal guitar cabinet.  I still do that to some degree but I've found I need to do less of it once I started using IR's which allows me more latitude in what mic is being used and where it's placed.  I still tend to cut some of the high end, but not as dramatically as I used to with the stock cabinets.

 

As far as level setting, I normalize all my presets to a given setting of around 100db (using a sound meter) with my Helix Master set at 12 o'clock and the volume on my Yamaha DXR12 set at 12 o'clock as well.  The only thing I really worry about in that regard is my stage volume.  I know I'm sending an ample line level signal to the board and I leave it up to whoever is running the board to gain stage that signal to the level it needs to be relative to the other instruments and vocals.  I've never had any issue on any board not receiving ample signal strength.  On leads I allow a boost of around +4db and it all seems to work out as long as the sound man exercised caution in not gaining my signal to hot at the board...but again, I've never had a problem.

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Dunedin we are on the same page regarding levels. I have the Stagesourse speakes on FRFR at 12 o'clock volume all tone controls there set flat and neutral 12  o'clock. the Helix volume control is my master volume. 

 

I have donwloaded number of IR's from 3 sigma. The optimum I found is the Fender de Ville (4 x 10) at mike position 4 and amplifier A (that means they used a Peavey 5150 valve amp to record the IR). Must say I am now totally satisfied. Hiss and noise is absolute minimum. The attack on strings is actually gone. Absolutely beautiful. ( I have always preffered 10 inch speakers for clean tone all my life and the L3t also has 2x10 speakers in each cab so there is a bit of fetish on 10 inch speakers present here)

 

But I have to mention also that I just replaced the cab block from Helix (4x10 Tweed) and really the Helix cab ( Fender Bassman 4 x10) is very good. If I run the 1024 IR from Sigma then the Helix cab is better (more full , less thin). It is only the 2048 IR which beats the Helix cab in my opinion. So if clean is not your game I have suspicion the Helix standard blocks are very good. And it is only with repeated fine tuning that got where I am now really splitting hairs. Most certainly most of the "noise" is generated in the amp or amp cab blocks. Can be tuned out mostly by reducing the Bias but then also the tone goes clinical)

 

Helix is a wonderful piece of equipment for sure. Oh well I am a one eyed Line 6 worshipper so just ignore that comment.....

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  • 3 weeks later...

"Thank you for all the responses. But I need to make clear the noize is not from Fender Elite."

 

Need to apoligize for the above comment. The noise was from my 6 month old Fender Elite. Out of desperation I dived in under the cover to check and found a dry solder joint on one of the earth leads soldered to the volume pot. Could see it is not good and re-soldered the joint and voila....... Helix pure and clean again. So I am sorry for this and also the tone on the guitar is so much better!

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"Thank you for all the responses. But I need to make clear the noize is not from Fender Elite."

 

Need to apoligize for the above comment. The noise was from my 6 month old Fender Elite. Out of desperation I dived in under the cover to check and found a dry solder joint on one of the earth leads soldered to the volume pot. Could see it is not good and re-soldered the joint and voila....... Helix pure and clean again. So I am sorry for this and also the tone on the guitar is so much better!

That is awesome that you found the issue, and thanks for the update!

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