Best Helix Setup with Amp

[mattdoble]

I currently run an HD500 into a DT25 head into a 1960A cab which is mic'ed up and put into our PA. I use the HD500 for all of the effects, but also as a midi controller for our lighting rig. 

 

I want to upgrade to a Helix, but am confused about the best route to go down in terms of the amp. 

 

1. Helix into DT25 as I do currently - Easier because I already own the DT25, but lack of full control. I appreciate this can be solved with a midi link, but it seems a pain and would this effect midi to the lighting rig? Space is sometimes an issue, so I like the idea of Helix Rack and rack mounted power amp..

 

2. Helix into power amp, something like Mesa 2:50. Run the Helix on either full or pre amp modes and then into a power amp. Nice because it can all be rack mounted above the amp and possibly simpler than the DT25?

 

Which is going to give the best sound? The DT25 has the different voicings, but if these cant be controlled via the Helix would I miss this in a rack power amp? Have read extensively through the forums but struggling for a definitive answer. Please help!! 

[talwilkins]

Used my Helix first with my DT25 throgh Line6 Link. Did no topic switching with MIDI.

Just turned off all modeling on the DT.

Sounds great!

Then decided to exchange my 3rd faulty Variax 89F for a Firebird1500 (same price)

one word: WOW! Never had such a great, transparent, defined, detailed, room filling sound (OK, a few more words).

Now wondering if I'll ever use the DT25 again.

I was sceptical at first, was convinced nothing could beat real tubes but now I really believe FRFR is the best (not the only) way to go with modeling.

Of course that's my opinion, any other opinion is just as valid to the person having it ;-)

[cruisinon2]

Which is going to give the best sound? The DT25 has the different voicings, but if these cant be controlled via the Helix would I miss this in a rack power amp? Have read extensively through the forums but struggling for a definitive answer. Please help!![/quote

 

]That's because there is no definitive answer. Everyone has their own definition of what the "best sound" is...

 

Personally, I hate lima beans. But if succotash is heaven on earth for you, that's what matters. If you like the DT25, and you're used to the "amp in the room" thing, then stick with it. If saving space and dragging around less gear is a big enough consideration, then look into an FRFR solution. You can run straight to FOH, and won't need to hump a 70lb tube amp around at all. Sounds like you know both what you like, and what you're doing. Excellent results can be obtained either way.

[mattdoble]

That's because they're is no definitive answer. Everyone has their own definition of what the "best sound" is...

 

Personally, I hate lima beans. But if succotash is heaven on earth for you, that's what matters. If you like the DT25, and you're used to the "amp in the room" thing, then stick with it. If saving space and dragging around less gear is a big enough consideration, then look into an FRFR solution. You can run straight to FOH, and won't need to hump a 70lb tube amp around at all. Sounds like you know both what you like, and what you're doing. Excellent results can be obtained either way.

 

 

I guess I have mis-asked my question. I want to keep the 'real amp' in the room and marshall cab. My question I guess is how is the DT25 going to sound without the voicings etc set right. And how is a Mesa power amp going to sound in comparison?

[cruisinon2]

I guess I have mis-asked my question. I want to keep the 'real amp' in the room and marshall cab. My question I guess is how is the DT25 going to sound without the voicings etc set right. And how is a Mesa power amp going to sound in comparison?

These are all entirely subjective questions. Either one will give you the "amp in the room" sound...because both options involve a "real" amp and cabinet. But only you will be able to judge if one is "better" than the other. You might decide there's no appreciable difference, or it might be night and day. I have no idea. There's only one easy to find out, either way. You've already got the DT...roll the dice on the MESA, A/B them and decide. Buy from someplace with a liberal return policy like Sweetwater, in case you don't like it. You'll have 30 days to test-drive it.

 

What my personally choice would be, or anyone else around here for that matter, is largely irrelevant.

[DarrellM5]

Although I use Alto TS110A PA Speakers most of the time, I sometimes use my DT25.  I used DT Edit (a free, easy to use, program) to turn off the amp and cab modeling in the DT.  The amp will retain these settings until I go back in and change them.  I set up Voicing I to use Topology I, Voicing II to use Topology II and so on.  Then with a MIDI cable connecting Helix to the DT I can easily switch voicings per preset.

 

I think of the different topologies as being separate amps.  I thinks some musicians will find that one topology would work for just about everything they do.  If that's the case they wouldn't even need to bother with MIDI once they have the amps set up.

 

Helix with the DT25 sounds amazing BTW.

[roscoe5]

You might look into a neutral tube solution like the Fryette PS2.  The Mesa 2:50 may color you sound too much.  My Mesa Simul 2:90 does.  I'm a huge Mesa fan too, and wish I would have loved it.

 

I run Helix (full amp models) into my L6 Spider Valve HD100 MKii power amp in (pretty neutral IMO) into a V30 2x12 cab.  My L6 DT50 just collects dust.  

 

I'm hoping Line 6 comes out with something similar, new and cool for NAMM 2017 this month.

[cruisinon2]

I'm hoping Line 6 comes out with something similar, new and cool for NAMM 2017 this month.

I'm sure there will be something...along with the usual 50/50 thrilled to pi$$ed ratio...;)

[jbuhajla]

Yeah, like the new Helix with Bluetooth and on board 9 volt power supply output (just joking...don't get your undies in a twist). 

[DarrellM5]

Yeah, like the new Helix with Bluetooth and on board 9 volt power supply output (just joking...don't get your undies in a twist). 

 

Or the 'effects only' version, the HFX8.   :D

[mattdoble]

Although I use Alto TS110A PA Speakers most of the time, I sometimes use my DT25.  I used DT Edit (a free, easy to use, program) to turn off the amp and cab modeling in the DT.  The amp will retain these settings until I go back in and change them.  I set up Voicing I to use Topology I, Voicing II to use Topology II and so on.  Then with a MIDI cable connecting Helix to the DT I can easily switch voicings per preset.

 

I think of the different topologies as being separate amps.  I thinks some musicians will find that one topology would work for just about everything they do.  If that's the case they wouldn't even need to bother with MIDI once they have the amps set up.

 

Helix with the DT25 sounds amazing BTW.

 

 

Thanks for this, great answer I was looking for! How do you find the Helix through your PA as opposed to through the DT25?

 

EDIT: Also, when you run both ways, how do you set the helix? Full Amp Plus Cab sim, Full amp, or  pre amp only? Have seen varying opinions on this! 

[DarrellM5]

Thanks for this, great answer I was looking for! How do you find the Helix through your PA as opposed to through the DT25?

 

EDIT: Also, when you run both ways, how do you set the helix? Full Amp Plus Cab sim, Full amp, or  pre amp only? Have seen varying opinions on this! 

 

It's pretty much the 'amp in the room' sound vs the 'mic'd amp through a PA' sound.  Both sound incredible but the amp pushes some serious air.  The PA is more convenient though when using 3rd party or CustomTone patches as most of them were created using an FRFR solution.  

 

One thing I love doing is using both at the same time as a wet/dry/wet setup; basic guitar signal going to the DT25 and effects going to the PA speakers.

 

I prefer using just the full amp (no cab) into the DT25.  All 3 methods work but that's what sounds best to me. 

[MusicLaw]

Sending a Helix signal to an actual amp+cab is an exceptional way to keep the sensation, response, and feel of moving plenty of air. Using decent FRFR monitors, at the same time, simply adds to the freq range beyond where the guitar cab's spkrs roll off. So, some hi freq cut or EQ may be needed depending on the Amp (and Cab) models and FX, if any.

 

Helix's easily movable FX Loop I/O Blocks make it a cinch to explore different configurations with the signal chain!

[mattdoble]

It's pretty much the 'amp in the room' sound vs the 'mic'd amp through a PA' sound.  Both sound incredible but the amp pushes some serious air.  The PA is more convenient though when using 3rd party or CustomTone patches as most of them were created using an FRFR solution.  

 

One thing I love doing is using both at the same time as a wet/dry/wet setup; basic guitar signal going to the DT25 and effects going to the PA speakers.

 

I prefer using just the full amp (no cab) into the DT25.  All 3 methods work but that's what sounds best to me. 

 

Thanks again for this advice.

 

Do you connect to the DT25 via the Line 6 Link, or jack straight in the front? From what I have read Line 6 link means you lose global EQ... is there any advantage to this if it is unable to switch topologies?

[DarrellM5]

By global EQ do you mean the one built into the Helix or the front panel of the amp?  I know for sure (just double checked a minute ago) that I can still switch topologies on the front panel of the amp when using L6 Link.

 

I prefer going straight into the fx return or using the 4 cable method.  If I use L6 Link the tone controls on the DT25 still work and affect the end result.