JTSC777 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Do any JTV players tune down a half step? If so has it caused any problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brue58ski Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 The tunings won't work. They are based on the guitar being in standard tuning. That was my original post and was based on my recollection of what has been posted before. I'm wrong in that it will work but it is optimized for standard tuning so supposedly it won't sound as good. My apologies. I have never personally tried it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhead Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Actually I think the Variax Alt Tuning feature is based on relative tuning, meaning it retunes each string up/down in semitones as specified. It does not adjust from standard tuning but from the existing tuning. If you start with an out-of-tune guitar your alt tuning will also be out of tune. This suggests that you can tune down a half-step and still use alt tuning. However, the half step down could impact things because the Variax is set up for standard tuning and the lesser string tension could affect alt tuning. But there will likely be a greater affect on intonation and fret buzz. You may need a complete new setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTSC777 Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 I of course would set it up again as I have all the others I have dropped recently. My older Variax 500 works perfectly dropped 1/2 step. I would never go lower and only do it so I can scream a bit less whilst singing. I believe the software alt tunings adjust from wherever the actual string is tuned so it should work. Time to experiment a bit. thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pederlyng Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 To help the singer of our band a little bit we always tune half a step down, i.e. Eb tuning.It works very well with my JTV-59 and my Standard, no need for new setup or anything. And no problems with alt tunings - they are all relative to the actual tuning of the guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palico Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Do any JTV players tune down a half step? If so has it caused any problems? Yep my JTV 89F is always 1/2 down, physically. Yes I had the guitar setup for it. It helps the singer not wear out so bad and makes you sound a bit different. The alternate tuning are relative as already pointed out, so when I use Drop D, I'm really Drop Db. It works fine. The only drawback is the modelling does not work as well to my ears as it does in standard tuning. It's not huge difference but I can hear it. Since I mostly use the magnetic pickups anyway and just use the modelling for some very specific things it's not a big deal for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTSC777 Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 I reall like the way any guitar sounds tuned down 1/2 step. Thanks for all the replies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psarkissian Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Silverhead is correct. Alt Tune shifts from where the string is at pitch wise. If you tune Low-E down a whole step (to D), and you use the Alt Tune to go down another whole step, it will be at C. So, what silverhead said. Just don't physically tune down too far or you risk going beyond the guitar's ability to track the pitch in any tuning mode. Someone once tried tuning to near baritone range and was getting drop-outs in Modeling mode cause of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Maybe it's just me, but one of the primary reasons I bought the thing was specifically to avoid having to tune down, and set-up the guitar all over again. Yes, I could keep one or more instruments tuned that way forever (which I used to do out of necessity)....but then they're stuck in that role. Unless you want to be adjusting the set-up constantly, which in addition to being a huge pain in the a$$, is probably not too good for the guitar. Frequently changing the amount of tension on the neck, and adjusting the truss rod to compensate is somewhat less than ideal. Guitars like equilibrium... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pederlyng Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Never needed new set-up when going from standard E-tuning to Eb-tuning and back again - on JTV-59, Standard, or LP, Strat, and Tele for that matter.And yes, you can use alternate tuning when in modelling mode - but I use both mags and modelling, so the answer is Eb-tuning - for ALL songs, when we do live gigs, that is ... and the singer is happy :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Never needed new set-up when going from standard E-tuning to Eb-tuning and back again - on JTV-59, Standard, or LP, Strat, and Tele for that matter. And yes, you can use alternate tuning when in modelling mode - but I use both mags and modelling, so the answer is Eb-tuning - for ALL songs, when we do live gigs, that is ... and the singer is happy :-) Well that's odd...tuning down a half-step puts significantly less tension on the neck, even for light gauge strings. Unless the action is initially high enough for Shaq to limbo under the strings, it's mystifying that you don't end up with horrible fret buzz everywhere. Intonation is usually affected as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pederlyng Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 You are right, of course - in theory, less string-tension gives a little extra fret buzz and affects the intonation. But hardly audible, to my ears (well trained after +40 years with guitar playing) - and no issue when playing live. One thing which is much more audible, is the effect of modelling/alt tuning.Sounds great in a live situation - ALMOST like the real thing, but not 100 % ...Have you tried Eb-tuning? Been doing it for many years on my LP - no problem. With 0.10's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palico Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Well that's odd...tuning down a half-step puts significantly less tension on the neck, even for light gauge strings. Unless the action is initially high enough for Shaq to limbo under the strings, it's mystifying that you don't end up with horrible fret buzz everywhere. Intonation is usually affected as well. I don't know the number but I really doubt the change in tension is really significant for E to Eb. I've unlocked the nut and pulled my JTV 89F up to standard to do a jam once and while. And yes the floating bridge lifts up a bit, but it's not that much. Now going a whole or more and I would totally agree. I should add that I don't use super low action on my guitars, personally preference. If you use really low action then yea it would likely buzz like crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 I don't know the number but I really doubt the change in tension is really significant for E to Eb. Daddarrio has a tool on their site that allows you to calculate what various tunings will do to the tension on a given set of strings. http://stringtensionpro.com/SetBuilder?set=EXL110 For a set of 10's dropping to Eb, the total tension drops from 102.5 lbs to 91.3...that's more than 11 lbs, more than 10% of the total. For the sake of comparison, a set of 9's in standard tuning is 84.4 lbs...so in essence, tuning down a half step is two-thirds of the way towards dropping an entire string guage. Don't know about you, but I consider that significant. Even without theses fancy internet tools to feed us info, anyone who's ever dropped down to Eb knows that the difference is readily felt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palico Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Daddarrio has a tool on their site that allows you to calculate what various tunings will do to the tension on a given set of strings. http://stringtensionpro.com/SetBuilder?set=EXL110 For a set of 10's dropping to Eb, the total tension drops from 102.5 lbs to 91.3...that's more than 11 lbs, more than 10% of the total. For the sake of comparison, a set of 9's in standard tuning is 84.4 lbs...so in essence, tuning down a half step is two-thirds of the way towards dropping an entire string guage. Don't know about you, but I consider that significant. Even without theses fancy internet tools to feed us info, anyone who's ever dropped down to Eb knows that the difference is readily felt. Thanks for the info, I use NYLL 110 so that nice and exact. I up or down them the half step all the time. There is slight difference in feel but it's not major, at least to me. All my guitars are setup for half-step tuning and up them when I need to for an open jam or sometimes when practicing with something someone else recorded. No buzz, but again I don't use low action so that could be big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psarkissian Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 There's neck relief to consider as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTSC777 Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 Half my guitars are tuned down and half are at standard pitch as I work with 5-6 different bands. I also play a lot of guitar synth so that has to be considered also. All of my guitars have rather high action anyway so I don't have any of the associated low action problems.Strings vibrate toward the neck in an elliptical pattern so having them low just does not work for the guitar synth. I can keep doing it the way I have been but would like to use the JTV I just bought more.Thus far it has only seen limited action at high paying/ profile corporate gigs. Maybe I will keep it that way lol! It got the call for those gigs because it is so beautiful in sunburst under stage lights! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingsCool Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 The Edge.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTSC777 Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 I am the OP.I tuned my JTV down and it works exactly the same.I did readjust the bridge to float at the same height. Tested through cranked Marshall DSL401- excellent modeled 12 string etc... tones! through BIAS Ipad headphone setup marvelous! through HD500 and FRFR again does all it is supposed to do. I have installed a GK3 synth pickup on it and plan to make it my main gigging instrument for the next 6 months. very pleased with this guitar as a working pros tool but it also has serious "fun" factor to it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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