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Helix Native

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It's not crap- far from it, and I've not had any issues with it, as most haven't or Companies wouldn't use them. It's company protection from theft of property. Stops the freeloaders and digital welfare thieves. I'm sure Line 6 would appreciate that fact. Arturia, Steinberg, Fractal Audio, Avid, EastWest, and Slate Digital aren't hurting financial wise either im thinking, they ALL use dongles and the point is they don't have to worry much about theft. It takes a bit more to set up granted, but easy to do and then you are golden. I have "never" had an issue with my iLok or eLicenser dongle. Unless you are a virtual blooming idiot it's really simple to set up, but then if that's the case (not pointing to anyone in particular but if the shoe fits) then you don't need to buy software anyway! ;) So, I say raise the price of Native to 199.00, Abort its connection with Helix entirely for purchase, use a dongle, and enjoy your software... ;) :lol: As always, YMMV.

Funny to insinuate...I will state I completely disagree, do not ilok. Do not change the pricing already stated. 😉

 

Iloks have been hacked so the security is really just a deterrent. Not to mention many people having account issues with it for varying reasons over the years, and not just because they were "virtual blooming idiots." Honest Opinion covers enough above. It is a flawed system with better alternatives, which is why many plugin makers are moving away from it, or going a different route.

 

I hope Line6 has enough foresight to decide not to go the iLok route.😉

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standing 26 feet from your cabinet = 23 ms delay

Up to a certain point, your brain compensates when you can see the source of the audio. When you can see your studio monitors 6 feet away, but it sounds like they're 20 feet away, it affects your playing.

if I have a midi track with program changes an ccs on my DAW to drive patches and snapshots on the hardware will I be able to redirect the midi to the plugin and obtain the same results (and viceversa) given that the patch will occupy the same bank/slot on both?

Helix Native won't support MIDI at all at launch—only DAW automation. We'd like to add MIDI support later.

I actually think they should just withdraw the special deal for Helix owners and sell it outright for $199.00.

The IP is worth way more than $199, especially considering some companies charge $150 or more for one amp model alone. Many here feel it's worth more than $399, but that's the top end of what we feel people are willing to pay.

Remember, you're getting over 60 Helix-level amps and over 100 Helix-level effects, and can chain them in any order, serial or parallel. How much are Slate, UA, Waves, and SoundToys bundles again?

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Up to a certain point, your brain compensates when you can see the source of the audio. When you can see your studio monitors 6 feet away, but it sounds like they're 20 feet away, it affects your playing.

 

Helix Native won't support MIDI at all at launch—only DAW automation. We'd like to add MIDI support later.

 

The IP is worth way more than $199, especially considering some companies charge $150 or more for one amp model alone. Many here feel it's worth more than $399, but that's the top end of what we feel people are willing to pay.

Remember, you're getting over 60 Helix-level amps and over 100 Helix-level effects, and can chain them in any order, serial or parallel. How much are Slate, UA, Waves, and SoundToys bundles again?

You guys. This thing works like an actual Helix inside your computer, people. It's a bargain at 399. It's a no brained for HX owners at 99

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The IP is worth way more than $199, especially considering some companies charge $150 or more for one amp model alone. Many here feel it's worth more than $399, but that's the top end of what we feel people are willing to pay.

Remember, you're getting over 60 Helix-level amps and over 100 Helix-level effects, and can chain them in any order, serial or parallel. How much are Slate, UA, Waves, and SoundToys bundles again?

 

 

Fine, then CHARGE $399.00 for it. Add a dongle to it if it's worth a lot more than what I suggested, I don't care either way.  Put your Native where yer mouth is, but ABORT it from the Helix hardware deal or suffer O Bitty HELL keeping people from trying to cheat you for it (by buying and then Returning the Hardware for the software)... Your choice as always, but don't say you weren't warned....  ;)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Funny to insinuate...

 

I said if the shoe fits. Gosh, I didn't know...  ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Im KIDDING! LOL....

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I said if the shoe fits. Gosh, I didn't know... ;)

 

Im KIDDING! LOL....

I'm flat-footed, the shoe 👞 rarely fits... 😜

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They could do a rebate style discount.  but I'm already sure they thought of that.

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Fine, then CHARGE $399.00 for it. Add a dongle to it if it's worth a lot more than what I suggested, I don't care either way.  Put your Native where yer mouth is, but ABORT it from the Helix hardware deal or suffer O Bitty HELL keeping people from trying to cheat you for it (by buying and then Returning the Hardware for the software)... Your choice as always, but don't say you weren't warned....  ;)

 

Seems odd to me that you're trying get a company to raise the price of a product... Why is it a concern of yours that some people might try to cheat the system? They either have a solution for that that we don't know about, or they calculated that risk into their pricing model. A higher price doesn't have any benefits to you. The only reason that i can think of is that you're concerned that they won't make enough money and will have to stop supporting Helix, but I'd say raising the price for loyal customers - after announcing it differently - has a much higher chance of doing that. 

 

Stop worrying, they've got this. Personally I'm just glad that they're unlikely to listen to you on this, because removing the discount would destroy a lot of people's trust in them... And as a hobbyist musician, I already spent enough on my Helix Rack + Control... I'm really looking forward to the workflow enhancements that Native will offer me, but $100 is all I would be willing to spend on that, at least for now. A higher price might not be a big deal for you at this point in your life, but it is for other people. And people who bought the Helix made the development of Helix Native possible, so the discount is appreciated.

 

Also, a dongle, really? That's such a PITA. I don't just have unlimited USB ports available you know. If they decided to go that route, sure, I'd find a way, but I really hope they don't do that. Plus it's something I might lose (I lost my Propellerheads Reason dongle, luckily it's not really required). Also, it would take some time to arrive here, which would mean I'd have to wait a week or two longer before I can use it, and that's providing it doesn't get lost in the mail (which is rare, but it happens)... I don't see any benefits for me.

 

Sorry if I seem a little aggressive here, that's not my intention... Your suggestions are just really really weird to me, and I can't imagine why anyone would argue in favour of having to deal with something as outdated as a dongle, and for having to pay more than what was initially announced, all to help them solve a problem that they never stated was a problem for them (as far as I know).

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A higher price doesn't have any benefits to you.

 

I disagree and let me tell you why. 1st off dongles are not outdated. They are used by many Companies on many powerful pieces of software sold today. 2nd, you losing dongles and not having enough USB slots is not anyone's issue but your own. And finally 3rd, I don't care what seems odd or weird to you or even what Line 6 charges for Native. I'm not "worried" as much as you and others seem to be about how much money it will cost. I/we can either afford it now or later. That ultimate decision on price or protection is not in my pay grade or yours. I do however have a specific reason to want support for Helix for a long "long" time, and if ripping off Line 6 causes that support to drop off sooner rather than later for Helix (by stealing their software one way or the other I.E. no copy protection), then I am against it totally. Line 6, just like any other companies bottom line is the almighty dollar. They lose profit on a product then they move on. Period! For example, If a dongle (or any other protection device available today) adds long-term $$ income for Line 6 with Native and creates profit (thus increasing a longer lifetime support for the Helix platform overall) and lessens theft of income for that product (them), then I don't Give a Rats rear end what you or anyone else thinks about it costing more, or having software protection. I'm all for prolonging the Helix program. If they can do the same without a dongle fine, whatever prolongs the Helix lifespan. If my ideas seem a little odd or aggressive to you or anyone else about this, then so be it. It is what it is. My bottom line is this-  A higher price will be paid by all if we lose a Line 6 support on Helix sooner rather than later "just because" we didn't want to deal with a little copy protection (or a rethink on how Native is sold hogtied to the Helix hardware without a net) now. Whatever adds longer support for Helix Im for- no matter the costs or trouble it might cause you or me. That's how I feel. As always, YMMV.

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I don't care what seems odd or weird to you or even what Line 6 charges for Native. I'm not "worried" as much as you and others seem to be about how much money it will cost. That ultimate decision is not in my pay grade or yours. I do however have a specific reason to want support for Helix for a long "long" time, and if ripping off Line 6 causes that support to drop off sooner rather than later for Helix, then I am against it totally. For example, If dongle (or any other protection device) support adds long-term $$ income for Line 6 with Native and creates profit (thus increasing a longer lifetime support for the Helix platform overall) and lessens theft of income for them, then I don't Give a Rats rear end what you or anyone else thinks about it costing more, or having software protection. I'm all for prolonging the Helix program. If my ideas seem a little odd or aggressive to you or anyone else about this, then so be it. And BTW- A higher price will be paid by all if we lose a Line 6 support on Helix sooner rather than later "just because" we didn't want to deal with a little copy protection now. It's how I feel. As always, YMMV.

 

Thanks for clarifying your opinions. All I'm saying is that I believe that user experience is key to making products viable. Making them as hassle-free as possible is important. As is clear from the responses here, many would rather not deal with a dongle, or a higher price after already having paid for the hardware. You may not give a rat's lollipop about what others want to deal with or not, but it should matter because you do care about the product's long-term sustainability, and I personally feel like your suggestions would do more harm than good, because they could very well lead to less sales. So I can understand your desired outcome - I want the same thing - I just think your proposed methods are a bit outdated and even shortsighted. But of course, this is all just speculation, and it's not like it would be possible to A/B it and compare the results :)

 

I believe that L6 made the right call when it comes to pricing and keeping it dongle-free (as far as I know), and I trust they know what they're doing. But yeah, agree to disagree I guess :)

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I personally feel like your suggestions would do more harm than good, because they could very well lead to less sales.

 

OTOH if it's easy to steal (or buy legally by hog-tying the hardware to the software without a safety net and then returning the hardware) how does that do for overall sales of a product? LOL, Just look at the extremes people are going to now, over having to pay more than $99.00. You'd think I stuck um with a bowie knife...  ;)

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OTOH if it's easy to steal (or buy legally by hog-tying the hardware to the software without a safety net and then returning the hardware) how does that do for overall sales of a product? LOL, Just look at the extremes people are going to now, over having to pay more than $99.00. You'd think I stuck um with a bowie knife...  ;)

 

Who says they won't have a safety net? There's other forms of copy protection, and none of them (dongles included) are 100% effective. Chances are that there will be a pirated version eventually - but that's true for almost all software in existence, and there's still plenty of software companies alive and kicking. Punishing paying customers is a bad way to deal with piracy.

 

Also, I don't think anyone is going to extremes, we're just stating that we disagree with you. And IMO, rightfully so, because your suggestion is that Line6 changes the prices that they previously promised (well, stated), all just to solve an issue that currently only exists in your head :)

 

Personally I also reacted because I like having discussions. It can always lead to me and/or you gaining new insights or understanding different perspectives.

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Who says they won't have a safety net? 

 

Ok, lets hear it then? I all ears as Mickey Mouse would say... It might be something we haven't thought of yet... Or they could be in a meeting right now saying what the hell are we gonna do now...  :blink:

 

 

There's other forms of copy protection, and none of them (dongles included) are 100% effective.

 

I never stated dongles or other forms of protection were 100% effective. I did say that many major companies used dongles for copy protection because it basically works well for them, or they wouldn't be using them.

 

all just to solve an issue that currently only exists in your head

 

That's right, software piracy doesn't exist. How silly of me, please forgive...  And there's no way people will order the Helix hardware, then buy the software and then return the hardware as stated above (and this was not my idea BTW). Why we are all honest here on this planet... errr...

 

Oh, you meant about the money... Ahh, yea that. Heaven forbid the price gets raised, even for a good (or bad) reason. It's not about the reason thou...  Your right about a different perspective as I have one too. I almost forgot there are some that are so tight every time they fart they get a nose bleed... It really doesn't matter why as long as a buck is saved. That's just what exists in their heads... :P Now, aside from us being snippy- I really do hope that Line 6 does well with Native and that it may include software copy protection. I would change the deal with the hardware, as this makes it easy to take advantage of the Helix software via hardware returns (as it stands now). Prices may indeed have to go up and It will make some angry if that happens, but I believe the separation is better in the long run for Line 6. I frankly can't believe you (or anyone else) wouldn't pay a little extra, for the longevity of the Helix program if nothing else. And, Line 6 wouldn't be the 1st ones to reconsider costs. Companies change the prices of things all the time. Stocks go up and down. Stamps and Insurance go up, and never down. Gasoline changes price on a daily basis. If you don't think its right to change dollar amounts, then read my lips, no new taxes.  :lol:

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Ok, lets hear it then? I all ears as Mickey Mouse would say... It might be something we haven't thought of yet... Or they could be in a meeting right now saying what the hell are we gonna do now...  :blink:

 

 

I never stated they were 100% effective. I did say that many major companies used it for copy protection because it works.

 

That's right, software piracy doesn't exist. How silly of me, please forgive...  

 

Oh, you meant about the money... Ahh, yea that. Heaven forbid the price gets raised, even for a good (or bad) reason. It's not about the reason, is it?  Your right about a different perspective. I almost forgot there are some that are so tight every time they fart they get a nose bleed... It really doesn't matter why does it?  That's just what exists in their heads... :P Now, aside from being snippy- I really do care that Line 6 does well with Native, and that includes software copy protection. I frankly can't believe you wouldnt pay extra for that as well, for the longevity of the program.

 

I would only be getting Native for the benefit of not having to re-amp when I want to try different tones, and because it would store my patches with my songs. That's what I would be paying for, and that's worth about $100 to me, not much more (since I already have a Helix, things would be different if I didn't). Suggesting that I should want to pay more just for the longevity of the program is like saying I should get another Helix or two, just so they can continue the support longer. I'd rather use my money for other purposes. It's a matter of priorities. The longevity is theirs to worry about, and to do that, they have to make products that people want, at prices that people are willing to pay for them, like any company. Just charging more doesn't always lead to more revenue, that only works for Apple :)

 

I never said piracy doesn't exist (to the contrary), but the idea that it would hurt the Helix platform to the extent that they have to suddenly hit a panic button and rethink their pricing model and/or punish paying customers is something that you made up out of thin air, at least at this point. If you think that they haven't thought all this through and need you to suggest better solutions for them (without any market data to support them) you might be delusional. This isn't their first rodeo.

 

Looks like I might have hit a nerve somehow while expressing my thoughts on your suggestions, if so, that wasn't my intention... It might just be your sense of humour though, hard to tell from text. But either way, no need to call people tight because they don't want to or can't afford to pay more. I'm lucky enough to be in a position where I can buy cool toys now and then, but most people I know can't afford to spend too much on music... And $200 is worth a lot in some parts of the world.

 

As for a better anti-piracy system, I'm a programmer, but I'm not a security expert - I am basing my opinion solely on the fact that I have read that ilok has been cracked, so if that's the case, I think it's no better than having a custom license system. It would get cracked either way... I could be wrong about this though. Just seems like a bit of an old-school approach to me, that does more harm than good.

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no need to call people tight because they don't want to or can't afford to pay more.

 

I think the nerve is in your wallet... ;) If the shoe fits, and yer right this is humorous to me. No one ever likes it when they are tightwads, being called tightwads LOL. Same goes for everything else I'm guessing. But to me, that's what it looks like. Could be wrong, if so please forgive my bluntness. You see Helix has brought me much joy in its tones, and for that, I don't mind paying to protect it's future worth, if possible. To me, my attempt at playing thru something like Helix is worth more than a few measly bucks if it makes me happy, which it has.

 

 

I will apologize profusely if Line 6 has all of this handled so that my arguments are a moot point, no matter the intent I have behind it. But if I'm right....   B) and they do change some things, I wonder if you or anyone else will state that here afterward. Ahh no matter, just thinking out loud again...

 

So even if iLok and eLicenser have been cracked, normal folks (even programmers) may not have the tools or information to re-create that "crack" on every piece of different code written. And, any software protection is better than nothing at all these days. Can we at least agree on that?

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I think the nerve is in your wallet... ;) If the shoe fits, and yer right this is humorous to me. LOL. Even if iLok and eLicenser has been cracked, normal folks (even programmers) may not have the tools or information to re-create that on every piece of code. 

 

You're right about one thing, I don't know how easy or hard it would be to crack. I was assuming that once a cracked version is out there, people could just torrent it, follow some instructions and be done with it in minutes, but I don't know if that's actually the case. The crack could be much more complex and beyond most people.

 

I won't argue the wallet jab - maybe I'm dirt poor, maybe I'm not, either way that's no concern of yours, and it doesn't matter to the conversation. My only point was that while I can understand that you want helix to be a long-lasting platform, I think your proposed solutions would do more harm than good. That is all.

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My only point was that while I can understand that you want helix to be a long-lasting platform, I think your proposed solutions would do more harm than good. That is all.

 

 
Speculation- So what you are saying is, if I'm right (fat chance but play along for a moment) and let's say that Line 6 did reconsider the costs due to unforeseen fee's, software protection adds, greed, whatever.  Now then, they didn't and wouldn't do this because I said so- so this change is on them. Are you telling me you wouldn't purchase it because they renigged on the original amount? Even if it's a given that they had a change of heart because of unforeseen added costs involved? Ever heard of cost over-runs? This happens all the time. Spring has sprung... And they are being awfully quiet about Native as of late...  ;)

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Speculation- So what you are saying is, if I'm right (fat chance but play along for a moment) and let's say that Line 6 did reconsider the costs due to unforeseen fee's, software protection adds, greed, whatever.  Now then, they didn't and wouldn't do this because I said so- so this change is on them. Are you telling me you wouldn't purchase it because they renigged on the original amount? Even if it's a given that they had a change of heart because of unforeseen added costs involved? Ever heard of cost over-runs? This happens all the time. Spring has sprung... And they are being awfully quiet about Native as of late...  ;)

 

 

Isn't all of your commentary speculation as well? Yes there are software pirates but the amount of loss they will suffer is pure speculation. Nothing you speak of has occurred since there is no product to pirate yet. I received Pod Farm 2 as part of a UX2 and I don't need it as a dongle. I did need it to originally put it on my computer but I can use it with any sound card I want to now. I don't recall any big announcement of any large pirating issue with that. As far as anyone being a tightwad, that also is speculation. No one knows anyone else's circumstances and therefore has little to no evidence to judge another persons motivation for this. For me it has to do with what it is worth to me. It is worth $100 to me. If it costs more, I won't get it. I just know I won't use it that much. But $100? Oh alright, I'll get it. $200? Nope, not worth it. I'm not a tightwad (just ask my wife). It just isn't worth any more than that to me. You can disagree with people on the price point but you can't characterize anyone's reasons why without knowing them. That would be pure speculation. No more than name calling.

 

You wouldn't pay that much? Then you must be a poopie head tightwad. Since I have determined how much it should be worth to you.

 

Wait a minute. That last line would be speculation! DOH!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Isn't all of your commentary speculation as well? 

 

 

Yes, thats why I put "Speculation" in as the first word...  ;)

 

Nothing you speak of has occurred since there is no product to pirate yet. 

 

I didnt start this "what if", I just responded to it. But the key word you used is very important- "Yet"...

 

As far as anyone being a tightwad, that also is speculation. 

 

And if it doesn't apply the why worry, why comment on it?

 

For me it has to do with what it is worth to me. It is worth $100 to me. If it costs more, I won't get it. 

 

That's always been an option and no one including me is trying to take that away from you. That said, I've not ever seen so much whining since I suggested the price go up in order to support the extra costs of copy protection (IF NEEDED). You guys hollered like I (once again) stabbed you with a bowie knife. Thats where the Tightwad jab comes into play here, and I hope you can see the connection.  ;)

 

It just isn't worth any more than that to me. You can disagree with people on the price point but you can't characterize anyone's reasons why without knowing them. 

 

Fair enough. But you can't tell me you speak for the majority of the "others" because you don't know them either.

 

That would be pure speculation. No more than name calling.

 

I'm just calling what I see but Ok, I'll stop now. I've rubbed folks the wrong way by calling them cheap, and your right, even if true I probably didn't need to call them out on it... OTOH, You do know by turning this into a name calling thing it takes away from the real reason I suggested it in the 1st place, which was to support the Helix platform "long-term". So, I wish you wouldn't do that... We both have wishes, don't we... ;) For example, by saving a buck short term now, we could be hurting the process long term. Speculation (once again) of course but I like hedging my bets. Sorry if I'm overly blunt about all this, but it matters, at least to me. This is my last blurb on this subject (thank GOD huh). When having to spend extra money on anything it tends to rub people the wrong way. I suggested raising the cost "as an option" after I read (here) about people returning the hardware to get the software (and for copy protection costs). To remove the software deal from the Helix hardware would fix that issue, but might cost more. That was and still is my thinking. It is and has always been your option not to agree here, or to purchase anything. Line 6 may indeed just release everything just as they stated, as that's their baby/choice. This "what-if" may all be a moot point- So be it. Flame away and let's see what happens with the release of Native! I hope it works out for everyone. No hard feelings- K? 

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And if it doesn't apply the why worry, why comment on it?

 

Because I thought it was a wrong and unfair thing to say.

 

And don't get me wrong. I generally agree with most of what you have posted in the past. I just disagree with this one point. You do tend to be a little blunt but that's part of your charm. ;)  And I absolutely do agree with your desire for Line 6 to support Helix as long as possible. It still rubs me the wrong way the way Line 6 essentially abandoned the Variax bass. They never came up with Workbench compatibility which they said was coming. It was in my Variax bass manual and was the tipping point for me to buy it. With no explanation or warning that "we are done with the bass". It just happened.

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It still rubs me the wrong way the way Line 6 essentially abandoned the Variax bass. They never came up with Workbench compatibility which they said was coming. 

 

I still have my Vetta II combo. I know exactly what you mean and that's why I'm trying to (suggesting to) add long-term worth to the Helix platform.

 

And, if one cares to look, there has been over "25,000" views of this thread. It matters...

 

Oops, I said that last was my last post on this- please forgive LOL!  :P  :D

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You guys hollered like I (once again) stabbed you with a bowie knife. Thats where the Tightwad jab comes into play here, and I hope you can see the connection.  ;)

 

Fair enough. But you can't tell me you speak for the majority of the "others" because you don't know them either.

 

No hard feelings.

 

I was not one of the "you guys" that hollered at you.

 

And I never said I was speaking for the majority or minority for that matter. I merely said you couldn't speculate about others motivation and used my own motivation as an example of another reason for not wanting to pay more than $100.

 

Definitely NO hard feelings.

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I keep expecting an actual informative and tangible Native update when this thread pops to the top of the list. :(

 

You guys keep "making" me click this thread. Please stop. :)

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I'm not sure how the whole thing with iLok came up, but I'm nearly certain that Line 6 isn't going to be using iLok with Native.

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I keep expecting an actual informative and tangible Native update when this thread pops to the top of the list. :(

 

You guys keep "making" me click this thread. Please stop. :)

 

I monitor this which will have the latest info. And if there is any "it's here" info on this forum, I'm quite sure it will have it's own thread.

 

http://line6.com/support/forum/90-helix-native/

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I've known people running their entire home recording rigs on hacked software that was supposed to requires dongles, iLok, only work with certain hardware, etc. If someone wants a piece of software for free, they or someone else will figure it out.

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I monitor this which will have the latest info. And if there is any "it's here" info on this forum, I'm quite sure it will have it's own thread.

 

http://line6.com/support/forum/90-helix-native/

 

Ha! Thanks! I need to get out of the Helix room more, I didn't even realize Native had it's own topic area.

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Logic tells me that my latency is 50ms. But I do all my monitoring through mix control, so I have little to no latency!

 

Yay.

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Spring came and went can we please get an updated ETA which is more informative than "it's in beta" ? When will the rest of us be allowed to try/purchase this? Thanks.

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Spring came and went can we please get an updated ETA which is more informative than "it's in beta" ? When will the rest of us be allowed to try/purchase this? Thanks.

I don't think they can. Once it's in Beta, you work off bugs until the known showstopper bugs are all fixed. While there are some statistical models to help estimate how long it'll take to identify & remediate those showstoppers, it's still a matter of actually finding and fixing them and it takes as long as it takes. The only alternative is lowering the quality benchmark to hit a date and that can't happen with a new product like Native where you need to make a great first impression.

 

There's a maxim in the tech industry: customers will remember a release sucks a lot longer than they will remember it's late. Kemper was late by nearly a year but they got it right. That touchscreen modeling doodad from InMusic wasn't ready for prime time and it seems to be struggling. I don't expect Native to be nearly as tardy as KPA but I do expect it to be very good.

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I've known people running their entire home recording rigs on hacked software that was supposed to requires dongles, iLok, only work with certain hardware, etc. If someone wants a piece of software for free, they or someone else will figure it out.

 

 

Another thing people sometimes forget is that software piracy is different from stealing. It's still bad, still dishonest, still illegal, but it's a  different thing.

 

With actual stealing of physical items, the seller is deprived of BOTH the money from the sale AND the actual item itself. With software piracy, the seller is POTENTIALLY (not necessarily) deprived of ONLY the money from the sale - they have infinite copies available to sell.

 

More importantly, using restrictive copy protection indicates an attitude of fear and scarcity, and punishes paying customers while rewarding pirates. Leaving out the copy protection, and just not worrying about it (realizing that 1 pirated copy ≠ 1 lost sale), indicates an attitude of confidence and abundance, and it treats paying customers with respect.

 

Look at REAPER, the DAW. They have 0 copy protection, and allow you to use the full-featured demo as long as you want. It's on the honor system. You can install it on any computer and immediately use all the features - and you can bet that I paid for it immediately. I'm SO happy with that company because they treat me with trust. I can copy my license to any computer I want to use it on, and they trust me. That's huge, and loyalty-inspiring.

 

In contrast, Slate plugins are on iLok, and after paying hundreds of dollars for them, one day my iLok crapped out and all the sudden I couldn't use the software I paid for. iLok charged a bunch of money for a replacement. They treated me (a PAYING HONEST CUSTOMER) like dirt. If it had been cracked and I were using a cracked version, this NEVER would have happened.

 

As a result, I am thoroughly disgusted with iLok and will never buy a product again that uses it. (How's that for lost sales?)

 

So the companies have to weigh what makes them the most money and how they want to relate to their customers - treating the customers well and writing off some piracy (or shenanigans with returning hardware for a discount), vs. harming and disrespecting their paying customers, to ineffectively hold back *some* piracy (again, when many of those pirates would NOT have purchased the product anyway).

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When did Slate go iLok? I have SSD and have been running it and adding sample packs for a few years now without an iLok.

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When did Slate go iLok? I have SSD and have been running it and adding sample packs for a few years now without an iLok.

 

SSD doesn't use iLok, but pretty much all their other plugs do. I have a subscription for their Everything Bundle, and it's iLok. At least they sent me one for free...

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I don't think they can. Once it's in Beta, you work off bugs until the known showstopper bugs are all fixed. While there are some statistical models to help estimate how long it'll take to identify & remediate those showstoppers, it's still a matter of actually finding and fixing them and it takes as long as it takes. The only alternative is lowering the quality benchmark to hit a date and that can't happen with a new product like Native where you need to make a great first impression.

 

There's a maxim in the tech industry: customers will remember a release sucks a lot longer than they will remember it's late. Kemper was late by nearly a year but they got it right. That touchscreen modeling doodad from InMusic wasn't ready for prime time and it seems to be struggling. I don't expect Native to be nearly as tardy as KPA but I do expect it to be very good.

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Another thing people sometimes forget is that software piracy is different from stealing. It's still bad, still dishonest, still illegal, but it's a  different thing.

 

With actual stealing of physical items, the seller is deprived of BOTH the money from the sale AND the actual item itself. With software piracy, the seller is POTENTIALLY (not necessarily) deprived of ONLY the money from the sale - they have infinite copies available to sell.

 

 

 

Well as a software developer I have to argue this point.

 

If I was to gain access to your bank and take all your money from your account should you still be so happy that it was only numbers and not physical notes I was stealing?

 

The cost of developing a piece of software is planned against a projected number of sales, if those sales are reduced by people stealing a copy you as a developer are loosing an actual item, this item was a projected sale which was used to fund the development cost. It isn't just manufacturing costs that count towards real product cost.

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We're very close. As of yesterday afternoon, all Helix Native 1.0 bugs have been squashed. The QA team is currently performing hardcore regression testing and if they don't find anything egregious, we may have a release candidate very soon.

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We're very close. As of yesterday afternoon, all Helix Native 1.0 bugs have been squashed. The QA team is currently performing hardcore regression testing and if they don't find anything egregious, we may have a release candidate very soon.

 

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Wonderful... now start pushing for the new 2.30 firmware update... I`m really intrigued about what the developing team has been cooking up... Hope some German high gain beasts...

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